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Joseph Stalin

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Soviet cogitations: 79
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 03 Sep 2015, 10:02
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Pioneer
Post 07 Sep 2015, 12:58
The Russian witness states:

Quote:
I'm from Russia, I met Louisa, I talked to doctors, Louisa is mother of Keke. Melania adopted Keke.


Louisa was born in 1837 and died in 1867. So either I talked to a ghost (which wouldn't be the first time), or the translation was so poor that it messed up everything (the most logical conclusion). Either way, I have that recording proving the relations. And I will admit that you are right about there being no more WWI veterans. That war ended 90 years ago. I apologize.
Last edited by Akecheta on 07 Sep 2015, 13:05, edited 1 time in total.
Soviet cogitations: 12389
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 18 Apr 2010, 04:44
Ideology: None
Philosophized
Post 07 Sep 2015, 13:05
If you're related to I.V. Dzugashvili, you're part Georgian, not Russian. Why don't you send your inquiry to the genealogical board of Georgia and have them professionally examine your claim? Stalin remains a national hero in his homeland. If anyone can trace his lineage with exactness, it should be them
Miss Strangelove: "You feed giants laxatives so goblins can mine their poop before the gnomes get to it."
Soviet cogitations: 79
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 03 Sep 2015, 10:02
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Pioneer
Post 07 Sep 2015, 13:06
Comrade Gulper wrote:
If you're related to I.V. Dzugashvili, you're part Georgian, not Russian. Why don't you send your inquiry to the genealogical board of Georgia and have them professionally examine your claim? Stalin remains a national hero in his homeland. If anyone can trace his lineage with exactness, it should be them


That's true, but I would consider myself part Soviet Russian actually. And no I can't contact them, they require a $300 fee which I can't do. And I already know that I'm related to him so there's no point.
Last edited by Akecheta on 08 Sep 2015, 06:06, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 1078
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 21 Sep 2013, 03:08
Ideology: Trotskyism
Party Member
Post 07 Sep 2015, 13:06
Akecheta wrote:
Once again, you have twisted my words. Me and my cousin said it's a possibility.

Oh no, don't you try to weasel out of this. Your post explicitly declared you the cousin of Stalin. You repeated that claim numerous times here and on Wikipedia.

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You need to calm down, it was that Russian witness and my cousin. Two people that day. And then me a few hours later.

Counting the initial one on the talk page making the same points (down to the "Jews" shit) and using the same writing style, just a few days earlier, it's four.

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If that's the case, then I guess all millions of records that aren't published must be "made up".

If you're quoting unpublished records and can't furnish them, then yes, you are by definition making things up. Because then you're using records that you haven't even seen.

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You keep calling them a race, but the facts state they are a religion. I don't understand how that makes me a bigot.

Quote where I called Jewish people a race. Just once, go ahead.

You won't find it, because you keep saying "race" over and over. I used the word ethnicity. It is far from the same thing as race. About half of all Jewish people are atheists and Judaism is itself a faith about Jews as a people, therefore Jewishness is an ethnicity first and foremost. "I don't trust Montefiore because he's a Jew" is xenophobia, bigotry against an ethnicity.

Also, paging Dr. Freud. You accuse me of twisting your words to attack a strawman, and yet that's exactly what you've done to me in both this section and the one above it.

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Well I'm sorry you think that, I'm very far from being a liar.

Anyone who says that is also a liar.

Quote:
Louisa was born in 1837 and died in 1867. So either I talked to a ghost, or the translation was poor. Either way, I have that recording proving the relations. And I will admit that you are right about there being no more WW1 veterans. That war ended 90 years ago. I apologize.

As I said, anyone here is free to judge the recording, and I welcome peoples' commentary on it.

But, considering the comments of your "cousin" here:

"I'm the cousin Emily was talking about. Are you going to tell us that you are going to believe some Jew who doesn't know what he's talking about? That's like trusting the teachers of history by Christians on the Native Americans. There's this witness that made sense to all this. She's probably in her 90s. A witness vs a book. Oh no, which one shall we believe. An anti-Stalin book or the witness. Jeez, so difficult. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.109.199.23 (talk) 20:30, 6 September 2015 (UTC)"

My guess is you didn't realize when you made that claim how old you'd actually have to be to have interviewed Stalin's grandma.

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That's true, but I would consider myself part Soviet Russian actually.

And why is that?

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And I already know that I am related to him so there's no point. You know?

No you don't, so yeah there is, and no I don't know.
Soviet cogitations: 79
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 03 Sep 2015, 10:02
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Pioneer
Post 07 Sep 2015, 13:16
Quote:
And why is that?


Because the Soviet Union and Joseph Stalin himself.

Quote:
Oh no, don't you try to weasel out of this. Your post explicitly declared you the cousin of Stalin. You repeated that claim numerous times here and on Wikipedia.


No, I'm not backing down on my claim that I'm related to him. I'm talking about you mocking the affair that Louisa probably had. Me and my cousin said it's a possibility, either way we can't be sure what happened. We just know that we are related to him because of Louisa.

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Counting the initial one on the talk page making the same points (down to the "Jews" shit) and using the same writing style, just a few days earlier, it's four.


Few days earlier? That person who said that was from last year.

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If you're quoting unpublished records and can't furnish them, then yes, you are by definition making things up. Because then you're using records that you haven't even seen.


I'm not quoting unpublished records. The recording has been published and I'm just making conclusions.

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I used the word ethnicity. It is far from the same thing as race.


No, ethnicity means race. That's also a fact.

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Anyone who says that is also a liar.


No, anyone who says that is telling the truth and doesn't want to result in insulting the person attempting to call someone a liar.

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My guess is you didn't realize when you made that claim how old you'd actually have to be to have interviewed Stalin's grandma.


Whoever made such claim to be that person is either a family member also, or her ghost. Stranger things have happened in history. But I don't care how the recording was obtained, the recording is the proof here.
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Soviet cogitations: 1078
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 21 Sep 2013, 03:08
Ideology: Trotskyism
Party Member
Post 07 Sep 2015, 13:23
Akecheta wrote:
No, I'm not backing down on my claim that I'm related to him. I'm talking about you mocking the affair. Me and my cousin said it's a possibility, either way we can't be sure what happened. We just know that we are related to him.

And how do you two "know" this? On what basis?

Quote:
Few days earlier? That person who said that was from last year.

Fair point, corrected. So you've been parroting this BS for almost a year now.

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I'm not quoting unpublished records. The recording has been published and I'm just making conclusions.

You "got this recording" today. You say you made this conclusion a month ago. On what basis did you make that conclusion? I've asked this numerous times and have only gotten "b-b-but recording" in response.

Quote:
No, ethnicity means race. That's also a fact.

No, that is not a fact and it's completely wrong. An ethnic group is a cultural/linguistic/historical linkage, a "tribe" in the modern sense. And tellingly, Jews are called "the tribe." A race is a social construct with a specific, rigid categorization behind it based mainly on appearance. White, black, Asian are races. French, Russian, Chinese, Hutu are ethnicities. Jews are among the latter.

So yes, your bigotry against Jews is not technically racism, if that makes you feel better for some sick reason. But "I don't trust X because a Jew wrote it" is insanely bigoted regardless and just as bad as racism.

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No, anyone who says that is telling the truth and doesn't want to result in insulting the person.

You missed my point. "I'm the furthest thing from a liar" is always and everywhere a lie in and of itself. Or does he, in fact, have gross body odor? Does she look fat in that dress?

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Whoever made such claim to be that person is either a family member also, or her ghost. Stranger things have happened in history. But I don't care how the recording was obtained, the recording is the proof here.

Cool, you got a message from a Russian ghost who is old enough to remember the Lincoln assassination on Wikipedia. And this is your proof. Awesome.

I should also ask why Claflin would be interviewed in the first place. You mention she died in 1867, or over a decade before her famous "grandson" would be born. Keke Geladze would have been a little girl, if she was even yet born, when that recording took place. So how does this prove anything?
Soviet cogitations: 79
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 03 Sep 2015, 10:02
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Pioneer
Post 07 Sep 2015, 13:33
Quote:
I should also ask why Claflin would be interviewed in the first place. You mention she died in 1867, or over a decade before her famous "grandson" would be born. Keke Geladze would have been a little girl, if she was even yet born, when that recording took place. So how does this prove anything?


You misunderstood. Louisa wasn't interviewed, it was just the witness and doctor who said that Louisa gave birth to the child, and I'm still working on my Russian, but I believe they also mentioned that she was going to give the child up.

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And how do you know this? On what basis?


My Ancestry account and the feelings of me being related to Joseph Stalin.

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Fair point, corrected. So you've been parroting this BS for almost a year now.


Funny, but no. I'm not lying and you need to accept that because I'm not going to lie and say that I'm lying, that would be a lie.

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You got this recording today. You say you made this conclusion a month ago. On what basis did you make that conclusion? I've asked this numerous times and have only gotten "b-b-but recording" in response.


Like I said, my Ancestry account that linked together all my ancestors. I also count the feelings I have for being related to him. And now that I received this recording, I also count that.

Quote:
No, that is not a fact and it's completely wrong. An ethnic group is a cultural/linguistic/historical linkage.


Oh I think I understand now. A race and a ethnic group could be the same but not always. Race is defined as a category of humankind that shares certain distinctive physical traits while ethnic refers more to the customs and culture of a given group. I apologize.

Quote:
You missed my point. "I'm the furthest thing from a liar" is always and everywhere a lie in and of itself. Or does he, in fact, have bad breath? Does she look fat in that dress?


Well I wasn't using it like that. I was simply using it as is: I'm far from a liar, meaning I try hard to tell the truth because lying doesn't do any good unless it really must be done. But I mean I have no reason to lie about this. I'm actually a bit surprised by all this drama over an excited discovery.

Quote:
Cool, you got a message from a Russian ghost who is old enough to remember the Lincoln assassination on Wikipedia. And this is your proof. Awesome


Funny, but it's a possibility that it was a ghost. I sure would do anything to get the truth out if someone mistaken my life, my history, or my family. But I try and reach for the most logical conclusion, and I believe it was a family member, someone related to her. Either way though, it doesn't really matter as the recording has been obtained and it proves the family relations.
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Soviet cogitations: 5155
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 08 Nov 2007, 06:31
Embalmed
Post 07 Sep 2015, 17:27
Why would you want to be related to stalin? No offense but you seem misguided for a communist and interested in it for the wrong reasons. A transgender Western leftist shouldn't be identifying with Stalin or his conservative, nationalistic Soviet state. They should be wayyyy to the left of that, trotskyist bare minimum.

I mean you cite this thing about fighting oppression related to your gender and this leads you to look to Stalin? It doesn't make any sense, you still sound like a red alert commie. Also, this mystical stuff about ghosts and shit sounds neurotic, I suggest you focus less on communism and more on your well being and happiness.
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Soviet cogitations: 79
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 03 Sep 2015, 10:02
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Pioneer
Post 07 Sep 2015, 20:28
Quote:
Why would you want to be related to stalin? No offense but you seem misguided for a communist and interested in it for the wrong reasons. A transgender Western leftist shouldn't be identifying with Stalin or his conservative, nationalistic Soviet state. They should be wayyyy to the left of that, trotskyist bare minimum.


It's not that I want, it's the fact that I am. You claim that I'm misguided, but I'm quite educated when it comes to politics and history. Judging by your anti-Stalin propaganda you are the one who is misguided here.

Quote:
I mean you cite this thing about fighting oppression related to your gender and this leads you to look to Stalin? It doesn't make any sense, you still sound like a red alert commie. Also, this mystical stuff about ghosts and shit sounds neurotic, I suggest you focus less on communism and more on your well being and happiness.


I respect your opinion even though I highly disagree. Like a typical Trotskyist you have twisted my words and haven't comprehend what I'm saying.

Ketevan "Keke" Geladze was born on February 5, 1858, in Georgia, the child of Louisa Almeda. She married Besarion Jughashvili on May 30, 1872. They had three children during their marriage. She died on June 4, 1937, in Georgia, at the age of 79, and was buried there. Am I surprised that people are now basing an anti-Stalin book as "reliable" and "trustworthy" source? No. Am I surprised that people actually believe Simon Sebag Montefiore? No. Am I surprised that Wikipedia does not wish to consider an actual recording to correct their wrongdoing on my aunt Keke? No. Am I surprised that everyone is listing the adopted mother (Melania Homezurashvili) as the mother of Keke? No I'm not. But in all fairness she was the one who took care of Keke so I understand the reasoning to not list Louisa. But this all goes to show just how unreliable and untrustworthy Wikipedia actually is. I support its abolishment.

I uploaded the recording for anyone who can now play it online: http://cl.ly/cvVb?_ga=1.118579721.1089897526.1441655493
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Soviet cogitations: 1078
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 21 Sep 2013, 03:08
Ideology: Trotskyism
Party Member
Post 07 Sep 2015, 21:16
Akecheta wrote:
You misunderstood. Louisa wasn't interviewed, it was just the witness and doctor who said that Louisa gave birth to the child, and I'm still working on my Russian, but I believe they also mentioned that she was going to give the child up.

Is the name Keke Geladze explicitly mentioned, and Louisa Claflin? As you claimed she was put up for adoption, I somehow doubt it, and thus this can't constitute proof of her parentage.

Quote:
My Ancestry account and the feelings of me being related to Joseph Stalin.

So, vague feelings and confirmation bias with self-admitted lack of records. Again, that doesn't constitute knowledge.

I kind of feel like Elvis is my grandpa. Just, because. So it must be true. (And for the record, if I believed that, there'd be more proof than your Stalin claim. At least grandma was actually an Elvis groupie, though grandpa is pretty obviously mom's father.)

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Funny, but no. I'm not lying and you need to accept that because I'm not going to lie and say that I'm lying, that would be a lie.

Would it now? I never would have guessed. Lying about lying is a lie, therefore you must be telling the truth!

Quote:
Oh I think I understand now. A race and a ethnic group could be the same but not always. Race is defined as a category of humankind that shares certain distinctive physical traits while ethnic refers more to the customs and culture of a given group. I apologize.

What they are is two sets of categories. One is mainly appearance-based and involves an explicit hierarchy, the other is a clearly-observable cultural difference.

Quote:
Well I wasn't using it like that. I was simply using it as is: I'm far from a liar, meaning I try hard to tell the truth because lying doesn't do any good unless it really must be done. But I mean I have no reason to lie about this. I'm actually a bit surprised by all this drama over an excited discovery.

All this "drama" is there because it's transparently untrue, and your justifications of the parts that don't add up just add to that impression.

Quote:
Either way though, it doesn't really matter as the recording has been obtained and it proves the family relations.

What you've described as the recording, a doctor saying in Russian that a woman has given birth, proves literally nothing about your family relation.
Soviet cogitations: 79
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 03 Sep 2015, 10:02
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Pioneer
Post 07 Sep 2015, 21:23
Quote:
Is the name Keke Geladze explicitly mentioned, and Louisa Claflin? As you claimed she was put up for adoption, I somehow doubt it, and thus this can't constitute proof of her parentage.


Yes, it did mention Louisa.

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So, vague feelings and confirmation bias with self-admitted lack of records. Again, that doesn't constitute knowledge.


No, it's not just only feelings but also the linked Ancestors and logical conclusions.

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(And for the record, if I believed that, there'd be more proof than your Stalin claim. At least grandma was actually an Elvis groupie, though grandpa is pretty obviously mom's father.)


Well I'm sorry you believe that because my Ancestry account has linked my family, I also had someone who gave me a recording confirming, and I also had the feeling that I'm somehow related to Joseph Stalin ever since I was a kid. So all this is confirmed.

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Would it now? I never would have guessed. Lying about lying is a lie, therefore you must be telling the truth!


You are free to think however you like. If you want to believe that I'm lying then that is your choice to do so. But I'll you right now that I'm not lying.

Quote:
All this "drama" is there because it's transparently untrue, and your justifications of the parts that don't add up just add to that impression.


I request you look back at all these posts. You would see that I'm only trying to answer your rude and hostile questions in the highest respect I can give. I would like for us all to not be confused about this so that is why I'm trying to help you understand.
Last edited by Akecheta on 07 Sep 2015, 22:06, edited 2 times in total.
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Soviet cogitations: 1078
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 21 Sep 2013, 03:08
Ideology: Trotskyism
Party Member
Post 07 Sep 2015, 21:33
Akecheta wrote:
Yes, it did mention Louisa.

And not Keke, a.k.a. the person whose parentage we are debating?

Moreover, for all your talk about "lack of records," an audio recording of someone's birth in the 1800s is far less likely to be an established record than someone's census data or marriage date. Also, she was born in Georgia, as even you admit. A record of Keke's birth in that way would be in Georgian, not Russian.

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No, it's not just only feelings but also the linked Ancestors and logical conclusions.

Unsourced linked "ancestors" on Ancestry.com. Ancestry.com is as well-researched, as credible as the user makes it. And I have yet to see a single logical conclusion you've made on this subject.

Quote:
Well I'm sorry you believe that because my Ancestry account has linked my family, I also had someone who gave me a recording confirming, and I also had the feeling that I'm somehow related to Joseph Stalin ever since I was 12. So all this is confirmed.

A feeling is not confirmation. Using Ancestry.com to link yourself to him, absent any records from the site to verify it, is not confirmation. A recording that only mentions some woman named Louisa, if even that's true (someone give it a listen?), in completely the wrong language is not confirmation.

Quote:
I request you look back at all these posts. You would see that I'm only trying to answer your rude and hostile questions in the highest respect I can give.

Highest respect would be not blatantly lying and treating us like we're idiots.
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Soviet cogitations: 3850
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 12 Jun 2006, 02:14
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Politburo
Post 07 Sep 2015, 21:46
I've wasted enought time today looking for any questioning on Keke's mother in russian sites. Not one mentioned another name than Melania Homezurashvili (Мелания Хомезурашвили).
Montefiori is not the only book people refer to, because, well, russians have their own history books.

So... it's alright. You don't have to be Stalin's cousin to be liked here. And if you are, well, that's the most amazing hidden story I've heard in ages.


"Where Argentina goes, Latin America will go".
Leonid Brezhnev

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Soviet cogitations: 79
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 03 Sep 2015, 10:02
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Pioneer
Post 07 Sep 2015, 21:56
Quote:
And not Keke, a.k.a. the person whose parentage we are debating?


I'm still working on my Russian, so I apologize if my translation skills are not so good. But according to some friends that I have, and as well based on my knowledge, we believe the doctor said: "My name is Yaroslav Kovalev, I'm a doctor. I am here with Louise Almeda Claflin, Anna Kulikova and Melanie Homezurashvili. Louise asked that the girl would be nicknamed Keke, which was agreed upon. It is 5 am on 5 February 1858." Anna in the beginning said something like "Louise gave birth to a girl."

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Well, that's the most amazing hidden story I've heard in ages.


Thank you. But I would not consider this the "most amazing hidden story", I have seen hidden stories that actually shocked me.

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Moreover, for all your talk about "lack of records," an audio recording of someone's birth in the 1800s is far less likely to be an established record than someone's census data or marriage date. Also, she was born in Georgia, as even you admit. A record of Keke's birth in that way would be in Georgian, not Russian.


Yes, I know, she was born in Gori, Georgia (Russian Empire at the time). You have it backwards though, it's more likely there to be recording than census data and marriage confirmations considering that the Russian Empire hardly used those kind of records, and they most certainly didn't publish all of them. But then again recording wasn't very common either, so most records are just unknown. But according to my Ancestry account, she died in Tbilisi, Soviet Union on 4 Jun 1937. She was burred in Mtatsminda Pantheon of Writers and Public Figures, located now in Tbilisi, T'bilisis, Georgia.

Here's a picture of her grave even.

Image


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Unsourced linked "ancestors" on Ancestry.com. Ancestry.com is as well-researched, as credible as the user makes it. And I have yet to see a single logical conclusion you've made on this subject.


The Family Trees made sense to me, it automatically linked my family as I said. This is how I found out that I'm related to Joseph Stalin. I seen no problems with it so far.

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Highest respect would be not blatantly lying and treating us like we're idiots.


You are free to to think however you like. But I'm not lying and I have been very respectful to you by not even insulting you and not acting hostile back to you.
Last edited by Akecheta on 07 Sep 2015, 22:25, edited 6 times in total.
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Soviet cogitations: 3850
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 12 Jun 2006, 02:14
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Politburo
Post 07 Sep 2015, 22:08
Quote:
Louise asked that the girl would be nicknamed Keke, which was agreed upon.

Now, this is funny. Because Keke is a nickname for Ketevan, which is Ekaterina in georgian. Which is a very interesting choice for an american (or scotish or what was her?) to choose.


"Where Argentina goes, Latin America will go".
Leonid Brezhnev

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Soviet cogitations: 79
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 03 Sep 2015, 10:02
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Pioneer
Post 07 Sep 2015, 22:11
Quote:
Now, this is funny. Because Keke is a nickname for Ketevan, which is Ekaterina in georgian. Which is a very interesting choice for an american (or scotish or what was her?) to choose.


Louisa is said to been middle class American who liked education a lot. But like I said before, I try and come up with logical conclusions. So I would conclude that since she did travel to Gerogia (the country), she probably met someone by that name, or heard that name, and used it. Because let's be honest, it's an interesting name that I even like.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 21 Sep 2013, 03:08
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Post 07 Sep 2015, 22:25
Akecheta wrote:
I'm still working on my Russian, so I apologize if my translation skills are not so good. But according to some friends that I have, and as well based on my knowledge, we believe the doctor said: "My name is Yaroslav Kovalev, I'm a doctor. I am here with Louise Almeda Claflin, Anna Kulikova and Melanie Homezurashvili. Louise asked that the girl would be nicknamed Keke, which was agreed upon. It is 5 am on 5 February 1858." Anna in the beginning said something like "Louise gave birth to a girl."

Our forum is like half Russian-speakers. Anyone able to verify anything she just said?

Quote:
Yes, I know, she was born in Gori, Georgia (Russian Empire at the time). You have it backwards though, it's more likely there to be recording than census data and marriage confirmations considering that the Russian Empire hardly used those kind of records, and they most certainly didn't publish all of them.

Yes, the Russian Empire did have a census. And churches have always kept marriage records, even into the Early Middle Ages. It's how most of the earliest genealogical work is done. Considering the Orthodox Church's dominance of the Russian Empire, I'd say marriage records are by far the most likely records you'll find.

What's not likely is an audio recording of someone's birth in the late eighteen-fifties. As in, the first President we have recorded is Grover Cleveland in the 1890s. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_rec ... nautograph As the first audio recording of a human voice was just a year before Keke's birth, in Paris, how am I remotely supposed to believe that technology spread to Georgia quickly and en mass enough that random commoners could record their childrens' births and yet Presidents and Prime Ministers can't record speeches? And bear in mind this is a technology that records voice into paper, not an audio file; it would have to be played back using technology that didn't exist until 2008. Direct audio recording did not exist until the phonograph in 1877, after Louisa's death. So, unless there was a very specific reason to record what Louisa's voice looked like sonically on paper, I have to assume there was no recording. In other words, busted.

And if she was born in Georgia, why is the recording in Russian?

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The Family Trees made sense to me, it automatically linked my family as I said. This is how I found out that I'm related to Joseph Stalin. I seen no problems with it so far.

Yeah, it made sense to you because it confirmed a pre-extant "feeling" that you were related to Stalin, despite having no records to prove it. Which isn't how you're supposed to do research, genealogical or otherwise.

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You are free to to think however you like. But I'm not lying and I have been very respectful to you by not even insulting you and not acting hostile back to you.

You began this thread with a lie, which is disrespectful. Now, please quit digging a bigger hole for yourself. We really don't care, your cousin being Stalin would give you no additional credence either way with most of us. Stalin himself was anything but a dynast.
Last edited by MissStrangelove on 07 Sep 2015, 22:34, edited 1 time in total.
Soviet cogitations: 79
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 03 Sep 2015, 10:02
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Pioneer
Post 07 Sep 2015, 22:33
Quote:
Yes, the Russian Empire did have a census. And churches have always kept marriage records, even into the Early Middle Ages.


Yes, I'm sure churches kept records. But the governments and churches in those days were not required to publish records.

Quote:
As the first audio recording of a human voice was just a year before Keke's birth, in Paris, how am I remotely supposed to believe that technology spread to Georgia quickly and en mass enough that random commoners could record their childrens' births and yet Presidents and Prime Ministers can't record speeches


Interesting but recording was used in the 1800s, I know that to be a fact. But I'm sure well-known Grover Cleveland claimed to be the first. It wouldn't surprise me.

Quote:
Yeah, it made sense to you because it confirmed a pre-extant "feeling" that you were related to Stalin. Which isn't how you're supposed to do research, genealogical or otherwise.


We all have our ways when it comes to figuring out research and family.

Quote:
You began this thread with a lie, which is disrespectful. Now, please quit digging a bigger hole for yourself. We really don't care, your cousin being Stalin would give you no additional credence either way with most of us. Stalin himself was anything but a dynast.


I'm sorry you feel that, but I never lied. The only one being disrespectful is actually you. I don't care if you care, I'm just saying that he's family and that has already been confirmed by audio.

Quote:
And if she was born in Georgia, why is the recording in Russian?


She was born in the Russian Empire, a lot of people spoke Russian which is a fact because there were a lot of Russians.
Last edited by Akecheta on 07 Sep 2015, 22:41, edited 1 time in total.
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Post 07 Sep 2015, 22:41
Akecheta wrote:
Yes, I'm sure churches kept records. But the government and churches in those days were not required to publish records.

So again, your argument amounts to "I have no record of Louisa's family, therefore she's Stalin's grandma because." But for the record, most church records of genealogical significance are now publicly available.

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Interesting but recording were used in the 1800s, I know that to be a fact. But I'm sure well-known Grover Cleveland claimed to be the first. It wouldn't surprise me.

No sooner than 1877 a decade after Louisa's death for a direct audio recording, and no sooner than a year before Keke's birth for looking at sonic waves on paper.

And Grover Cleveland did not claim to be the first person to be recorded, that would be whoever first used the phonograph. Probably Edison. Cleveland was the first President to do so. Wealthy and powerful people tend to have first access to any technology, a President of the United States would almost certainly use it before some woman in Georgia.

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We all have our ways when it comes to figuring out research and family.

Yes, but there's the way that lends you the most likely estimate of your actual genealogy, and then there's making shit up. Actual, verifiable research is the former. Adding random stuff just because is the latter. You have done the latter.

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I'm sorry you feel that, but I never lied. The only one being disrespectful is actually you. I don't care if you care, I'm just saying that he's family and that has already been confirmed by audio.

Except it has not, because the phonograph didn't exist until two decades after Keke Geladze's birth. Around the time of Stalin's own birth, it was patented the same year.

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She was born in the Russian Empire, a lot of people spoke Russian which is a fact because there were a lot of Russians.

In the small town of Gambareuli in central Georgia? Even the local gentry (e.g. Amilakhvari) were mostly Georgian. Keke Geladze historically was known to speak very poor Russian. It was a local priest, someone with a seminary education and thus probably the best-educated person in the town, who taught Stalin the Russian language.
Last edited by MissStrangelove on 07 Sep 2015, 22:45, edited 1 time in total.
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Post 07 Sep 2015, 22:45
Quote:
Most church records of genealogical significance are now publicly available.


Of course, I do not dispute this. Most of those records are now available. Most. But my family is different, it's a bit more harsh. We are working class people. I know I have family members such as Joseph Stalin who is famous and has records released. But not all records are released, in fact a lot of people's records aren't published. A lot choose to have them not published. But most of the time it just isn't published in general. I don't know why.

Quote:
So again, your argument amounts to "I have no record of Louisa's family, therefore she's Stalin's grandma because." But for the record, most church records of genealogical significance are now publicly available.


I have record of Louisa's family, I never said I didn't.

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No sooner than 1877 a decade after Louisa's death for a direct audio recording, and no sooner than a year before Keke's birth for looking at sonic waves on paper.


I understand that you believe that, but this recording obviously debunks that statement. History is a gallery of pictures in which there are few originals and many copies. History is a set of lies agreed upon.

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Wealthy and powerful people tend to have first access to any technology, a President of the United States would almost certainly use it before some woman in Georgia.


Yes, they tend to have the first access to technology. But this is not always the case. History is known to be twisted, confusing, to be a lie, and to take credit away from someone else. You shouldn't be shocked that recording existed in 1858. History is a race between education and catastrophe. History is a people's memory, but whose memory and how powerful they are is what really matters when we speak of history.

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In the small town of Gambareuli in central Georgia?


A small town regardless would have Russian-speakers. Especially under the Russian Empire filled with a lot of Russians. Russians who come from different places even.
Last edited by Akecheta on 08 Sep 2015, 06:09, edited 14 times in total.
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