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Joseph Stalin

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Soviet cogitations: 79
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 03 Sep 2015, 10:02
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
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Post 07 Sep 2015, 11:07
I never thought Wikipedia could do me any good, but in this case it actually did.

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Soviet cogitations: 1078
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 21 Sep 2013, 03:08
Ideology: Trotskyism
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Post 07 Sep 2015, 11:08
Yes, Judaism is a religion. Judaism =/= Jewishness. All adherents of Judaism are Jewish, not all Jewish people follow Judaism. Jewishness is a culture, an ethnic group. Also not a race, but I'm curious why you're so defensive about it and keep bringing up "race." As if it not technically being racism makes bigotry any more okay.
Soviet cogitations: 79
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 03 Sep 2015, 10:02
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
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Post 07 Sep 2015, 11:11
Quote:
But sticking up to an abusive jackass of a father and having a sense of human compassion as a political driver isn't really cause to believe you're related to Stalin. Now, in the meta sense, we're all related to each-other as humans. But family relation, I see no reason to believe that.


I don't stick up for him, he was my stepfather. When he called me "pro-Russian", I started to do research, started to ask questions, etc., I felt the spirit of Joseph Stalin when I started looking into communism, and it turns out I was right about him being my cousin.

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Yes, Judaism is a religion. Judaism =/= Jewishness.


Well I guess we can just agree to disagree on this as it's a fact that Judaism is not a race. And it's a fact that Jewishness is relating to the Jews or their culture or religion. I'm just saying that I don't trust any religious teachings of history, life, or how to live. I believe in spirituality and not man-made Bible.
Last edited by Akecheta on 07 Sep 2015, 11:16, edited 1 time in total.
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Soviet cogitations: 1078
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 21 Sep 2013, 03:08
Ideology: Trotskyism
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Post 07 Sep 2015, 11:16
Akecheta wrote:
I'm glad you can relate. I was wrong about you, I took your skepticism and difference of opinion as an attack, and I apologize.

Apology accepted. I don't mean anything personal by questioning you, there are just some things that don't really add up to me.

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I don't stick up for him, he was my stepfather.

Up to, not up for.

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When he called me "pro-Russian", I started to do research, started to ask questions, etc., I felt the spirit of Joseph Stalin when I started looking into communism, and it turns out I was right about him being my cousin.

Or are you just confirming your bias? How thoroughly have you been looking on Ancestry? Like, is this story about Louisa Claflin being Keke's mother corroborated by any sort of documentation? Because you now claim you came to that conclusion a month before you met the "IP" that confirmed it.

Quote:
Well I guess we can just agree to disagree on this as it's a fact that Judaism is not a race. And it's a fact that Jewishness is relating to the Jews or their culture or religion. I'm just saying that I don't trust any religious teachings of history, life, or how to live. I believe in spirituality and not man-made Bible.

You're the only one using the word "race." Jewishness is an ethnicity, Jewish religion was made to suit the tribe rather than vice-versa. If you're part of the tribe, you're Jewish. Bigotry against an ethnic group is xenophobia, not racism, but xenophobia isn't cool either.

I'm just saying you don't seem to know many Jewish people. Actually most Jews I know are atheists. And the ones who do adhere to Judaism are about as noncommittal about it as "Christmas and Easter" Christians, people who go to church twice a year for appearances' sake.

Also, oh god, you're one of those "I'm not religious, I'm spiritual" Oprahanity people? Define spirituality, define religion.
Soviet cogitations: 79
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 03 Sep 2015, 10:02
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
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Post 07 Sep 2015, 11:20
Quote:
Is this story about Louisa Claflin being Keke's mother corroborated by any sort of documentation? Because you now claim you came to that conclusion a month before you met the "IP" that confirmed it.


I'm on Ancestry quite a lot actually, there's not much documentation since we are talking about the 1800s and the Russian Empire here. I'm lucky enough to have a recording, as back in the 1800s it wasn't common at all.
Last edited by Akecheta on 07 Sep 2015, 11:24, edited 1 time in total.
Soviet cogitations: 79
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 03 Sep 2015, 10:02
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
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Post 07 Sep 2015, 11:23
Quote:
Also, oh god, you're one of those "I'm not religious, I'm spiritual" Oprahanity people? Define spirituality, define religion.


This website may help you understand: http://www.differencebetween.com/difference-between-religion-and-spirituality/
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Soviet cogitations: 1078
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 21 Sep 2013, 03:08
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Post 07 Sep 2015, 11:24
Akecheta wrote:
I'm on Ancestry quite a lot actually, there's not much documentation since we are talking about the 1800s and the Russian Empire here. I'm lucky enough to have a recording, as back in the 1800s it wasn't common at all.

You should be able to find records before adding it to your chart, records were generally only not there in the case of peasants and street urchins.

As Stalin's family was urbanized people have been able to research his ancestry through publicly available records, you can do the same. Otherwise, you're pulling shit out of thin air, or at best trusting the word of totally unsourced claims.

Although I should add that the names you listed in your OP look distinctly Anglo and Scottish. Claflin is a Scottish surname, and you said the following on Wikipedia which would make her an American:

"I mean it's so odd, right? That Louisa Almeda Claflin would have a big fight with her husband, and then traveling to Gerogia (the country), where she had an affair, and when the baby came, she put her up for adoption. Once that was done, she went back to the United States and pretended nothing happened. I'm not surprised, are you? We are talking about a time where a lot of people were gullible. I mean it's not like we are talking about a family who had intimacy problems and known to have affairs, oh wait! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.109.199.23 (talk) 20:55, 6 September 2015 (UTC)"

Now, how would you possibly know about this affair in Georgia? What record is there of it? Because I get the distinct hunch you're making it up, and you've shown nothing that would prove it true.

Quote:
This website may help you understand: http://www.differencebetween.com/differ ... rituality/

Yeah, all that fluffy stuff about personal growth that spirituality's supposedly so good for? Religion, done in a constructive way, does and is the same exact thing. By their definitions I see little difference between "spirituality" and any religion that isn't an oppressive fragging cult.
Last edited by MissStrangelove on 07 Sep 2015, 11:29, edited 1 time in total.
Soviet cogitations: 79
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 03 Sep 2015, 10:02
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
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Post 07 Sep 2015, 11:28
Quote:
You should be able to find records before adding it to your chart. People have been able to research Stalin's ancestry through publicly available records, you can do the same. Otherwise, you're pulling shit out of thin air, or at best trusting the word of totally unsourced claims.


Joseph Stalin has a lot of records, but you should understand that not everyone will.

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You said the following on Wikipedia which would make her an American. Now, how would you possibly know about this affair in Georgia? What record is there of it? Because I get the distinct hunch you're making it up, and you've shown nothing that would prove it true.


Actually as you can see, that's not my IP. That's my cousin's IP address. And yes, she was American. Also judging by the fact that each family had affairs, we used common sense to make such conclusion.
Last edited by Akecheta on 07 Sep 2015, 11:32, edited 1 time in total.
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Post 07 Sep 2015, 11:32
Akecheta wrote:
Joseph Stalin has a lot of records, but you should understand that not everyone will.

We are talking about records about Stalin. And the unfortunate fact is, for lines with no recorded ancestry going further back, it's best to not make stuff up. Only go as far as the records, as the facts, take you. When you can't go any further on a given line, that's when you know it's gone into the unrecorded masses of peasantry.

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Actually as you can see, that's not my IP. That's my cousin's IP address. And yes, she was American.

Your "cousin" who writes exactly like you and says the exact same things, word for word, because you're "close." Right.

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Also judging by the fact that each family had affairs, we used common sense to make such conclusion.

So it's "common sense" that your great-great-great-grandma ran off to Georgia for 9 months giving birth to Stalin's mommy and put her up for an adoption nobody recorded, just because. Some nice common sense you have there.

So you have no record of it? Nothing on which you actually base your claim?
Last edited by MissStrangelove on 07 Sep 2015, 11:34, edited 1 time in total.
Soviet cogitations: 79
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 03 Sep 2015, 10:02
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
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Post 07 Sep 2015, 11:34
Quote:
We are talking about records about Stalin. And the unfortunate fact is, for lines with no recorded ancestry going further back, it's best to not make stuff up. Only go as far as the records, as the facts, take you. When you can't go any further on a given line, that's when you know it's gone into the unrecorded masses of peasantry.


I'm actually talking about Stalin's mother, which is a different story.

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So it's common sense that your great-great-great-grandma ran off to Georgia for 9 months giving birth to Stalin's mommy, just because. Some nice common sense you have there.


You act like my family is some upper-class royalty, this is not the case.

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So you have no record of it? Nothing on which you actually base your claim?


Do you have record that Melania Homezurashvili was the actual mother of Keke? Besides a book and everyone using that book for their claims? No? You don't? Well then.
Last edited by Akecheta on 07 Sep 2015, 11:49, edited 1 time in total.
Soviet cogitations: 79
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 03 Sep 2015, 10:02
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
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Post 07 Sep 2015, 11:35
Quote:
Your "cousin" who writes exactly like you and says the exact same things, word for word, because you're "close." Right.


Well considering the abusive family I grew up in, I would say me and him are very close. I do not appreciate how you are treating me. You should also know that there is really no difference when you type properly. You think my stepfather was bad? My biological father told my mother to abort me, but she didn't.
Last edited by Akecheta on 07 Sep 2015, 11:37, edited 1 time in total.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 21 Sep 2013, 03:08
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Post 07 Sep 2015, 11:37
Akecheta wrote:
I'm actually talking about Stalin's mother, which is a different story.

Also urbanized, the daughter of a potter. But, oh wait, she was "put up for adoption" based on nothing.

Quote:
You act like my family is some upper-class royalty, this is not the case.

No, I act like you need evidence to make genealogical claims. Because, y'know, you do. Birth records, marriage/church records, Ancestry.com has these for any urbanized person.

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Well considering the abusive family I grew up in, I would say me and him are very close. I do not appreciate how you are treating me.

You don't appreciate people challenging your claims? Well, sorry. I don't appreciate lying. Badly. Not liars, just people who are really bad at it.

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You should also know that there is really no difference when you type properly.

No, writing style is a thing. Or do Hemingway and Poe read the same to you? No, I didn't think so.

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You think my stepfather was bad? My biological father told my mother to abort me, but she didn't.

See, I have half an urge to say something really nasty here. But instead, I'll listen to my better angels and say: that's depressing, and if it wasn't a great burden on her, I'm glad she didn't.
Soviet cogitations: 79
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 03 Sep 2015, 10:02
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
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Post 07 Sep 2015, 11:41
Quote:
No, I act like you need evidence to make genealogical claims. Because, y'know, you do. Birth records, marriage/church records, Ancestry.com has these for any urbanized person.


You would be surprised just how much records don't get published. Maybe famous people, but Stalin's mother was not famous. She lived in the 1800s. And in the Russian Empire.

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You don't appreciate people challenging your claims? Well, sorry. I don't appreciate lying. Badly. Not liars, just people who are really bad at it.


The only thing I have a problem with is the fact that you are twisting my words, calling me a liar, and just being completely hostile to me. There's that recording that I asked for, which I provided you.
Soviet cogitations: 79
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 03 Sep 2015, 10:02
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Post 07 Sep 2015, 11:44
Quote:
No, writing style is a thing. Or do Hemingway and Poe read the same to you? No, I didn't think so.


Seriously? Writing style? Well that's new for me. All I know is that me and my cousin are close, we know how we write and that's properly, we write proper. We hardly use slang and we both like to keep things simple.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 21 Sep 2013, 03:08
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Post 07 Sep 2015, 11:50
Akecheta wrote:
You would be surprised just how much records don't get published. Maybe famous people, but Stalin's mother was not famous. She lived in the 1800s. And in the Russian Empire.

So your defense of this is "tons of records don't get published, therefore I'm Stalin's cousin!"? Because if so, that's completely ridiculous.

In the 1800s anywhere in Europe, most unrecorded people would be rural peasantry. And Stalin's mother was in fact recorded. We have records of her, her father and his employment (an impoverished potter for the local noble house), her mother as much as you'd like to deny it. What we don't have records of is this supposed adoption. And if your defense of it is "it wasn't recorded," how is that any mark in your favor?

Mickey Mouse is totally right behind you. I know, you can't see him, you have no way of proving he's there. But trust me, he is.

Quote:
The only thing I have a problem with is the fact that you are twisting my words, calling me a liar, and just being completely hostile to me. There's that recording that I asked for, which I provided you.

I'm almost certain you are, in fact, a liar. My hostility is only partially based on that, the stubbornness when caught is a bigger problem to me personally. And I guess the transparency of it adds an extra layer of "ugh." My belief that you are a liar is based on your own words, available for anyone to see.

Quote:
Seriously? Writing style? Well that's new for me. All I know is that me and my cousin are close, we know how we write and that's properly, we write proper. We hardly use slang and we both like to keep things simple.

First off, "we write proper" is itself bad grammar. Just saying. Again: if you want to put on airs, preferably stop right there and don't, but at least be good at it.

But yes, writing style. It's a thing. It's a thing you probably learned about way back in elementary school English when you compared how Junie B. Jones is written to how Clifford the Big Red Dog is. Hemingway and Poe read differently. You and I read differently. People express themselves differently.

You and "your cousin" write with the same style, express the same obsessive belief about a relatively obscure historical figure and happened to do so alongside a bunch of other people on one barely-visited Wikipedia page all on the same day, and to top it all off express the same really weird fixation on Jews.
Soviet cogitations: 79
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 03 Sep 2015, 10:02
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
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Post 07 Sep 2015, 11:54
Quote:
So your defense of this is "tons of records don't get published, therefore I'm Stalin's cousin!"? Because if so, that's completely ridiculous.


Once again you have twisted my words. Hear the recording that you asked for.

Quote:
In the 1800s anywhere in Europe, most unrecorded people would be rural peasantry. And Stalin's mother was in fact recorded. We have records of her, her father and his employment (an impoverished potter for the local noble house), her mother as much as you'd like to deny it. What we don't have records of is this supposed adoption. And if your defense of it is "it wasn't recorded," how is that any mark in your favor?


Well according to my Ancestry account, no government documents have been recorded for her. And I still haven't been able to track her father successfully.

You have crossed the line with your insults, accusations, and your mockery of me and my family.
Last edited by Akecheta on 07 Sep 2015, 13:01, edited 3 times in total.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 21 Sep 2013, 03:08
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Post 07 Sep 2015, 12:15
Akecheta wrote:
Once again you have twisted my words. Hear the recording that you asked for.

I'll leave it to the other members to judge the recording, to be frank I don't want to risk a virus for this.

I will say the odds of having someone who interviewed Stalin's grandma alive today/posting on Wikipedia/giving you a recording, as you claimed, are essentially non-existent. I mean, the younger end of the generation that fought in WWI are almost all gone now. And Stalin himself was on the older end of that, as would be anyone old enough to have interviewed his grandma.

Quote:
Well according to my Ancestry account, no government documents have been recorded for her. And I still haven't been able to track her father successfully.

Really now? 1) Which is no reason to assume you're Stalin's cousin just because. 2) Since I've seen Melania's name in several biographies, I can't say I've checked the endnotes, but I have to assume it's based on some documentation.

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You have crossed the line with your insults, accusations, and your mockery of me and my family. I don't have to put up with this nonsense. I will no longer be replying to you. Have a nice night!

Okay. Just for the record, no, I'm only mocking you.
Soviet cogitations: 79
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 03 Sep 2015, 10:02
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
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Post 07 Sep 2015, 12:26
I must reply to you one more time since you apparently haven't comprehend anything I told you.

Quote:
I'll leave it to the other members to judge the recording, to be frank I don't want to risk a virus for this.


I'm beginning to think that you are simply a troll. You don't even understand that my cousin and I are very close. You don't understand that some people write like other people. You don't understand that a lot of records don't actually get published. You don't understand race from religion. You are just a very rude and hostile person who insults other people and their family.

Quote:
I will say the odds of having someone who interviewed Stalin's grandma alive today/posting on Wikipedia/giving you a recording, as you claimed, are essentially non-existent.


The recording is old, and I will admit that the number of people who lived in those times are now indeed almost non-existent as you say, but the facts remain though. They are not non-existent yet. But as I said, everything happens for a reason. The Great Spirit leads to these kind of things. A correction in history. Call it justice if you may. But you don't even understand spirituality, that's fine. You don't have to believe me. I don't care, but I know the truth and history will clear me as well.
Last edited by Akecheta on 07 Sep 2015, 12:39, edited 1 time in total.
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Soviet cogitations: 1078
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 21 Sep 2013, 03:08
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Post 07 Sep 2015, 12:38
Akecheta wrote:
I must reply to you one more time since you apparently haven't comprehend anything I told you.

What's that again? Oh yeah, you have top secret knowledge great-great-great-grandma Claflin went off and had sex with some Georgian guy, shacked up for 9 months, gave birth to baby Keke Geladze, put her up for adoption, went home and pretended nothing happened.

And nobody recorded it. But you know it. Somehow.

Quote:
You don't even understand that my cousin and I are very close.

My sister and I are too. We don't write in the exact same way, share the same obsessive fixations, or decide to act on them with "a bunch of other people" on the same day in a really obscure place.

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You don't understand that some people write like other people.

Sure do, but like five different people on one day on the barely-visited page of Keke Geladze? Excuse me for smelling something fishy.

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You don't understand that a lot of records don't actually get published.

And we base genealogical records on the ones that do. If we can't access something so we just start saying stuff, that's what's generally referred to as "making shit up."

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You don't understand race from religion.

You keep mentioning race. I've called you on this countless times. You keep doing it, it's really bizarre. "B-b-b-but Jews aren't a race, bigotry against them must be fine" is legitimately the only reason I can think of for why.

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You are just a very rude and hostile person who insults other people and their family.

Not their family. Not even other people. Just not-very-bright liars, e.g. you.

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The recording is old, and I will admit that the number of people is indeed almost non-existent, but the facts remain here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florence_Green Sorry, not "almost gone," the generation that fought in WWI is gone. And the last of them was born in 1901. Stalin was born in 1878, his grandmother would presumably be at least fourty years older. So no, I think the idea that you met someone who interviewed her on Wikipedia can be dismissed right off the bat.

I think that you posted there as that person, in some lame attempt to add credence to your claim.

Quote:
They are not non-existent yet.

Actually, yes they are. See above.
Soviet cogitations: 79
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 03 Sep 2015, 10:02
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Pioneer
Post 07 Sep 2015, 12:53
Quote:
What's that again? Oh yeah, you have top secret knowledge great-great-great-grandma Claflin went off and had sex with some Georgian guy, shacked up for 9 months, gave birth to baby Keke Geladze, put her up for adoption, went home and pretended nothing happened. And nobody recorded it. But you know it. Somehow.


Once again, you have twisted my words. Me and my cousin said it's a possibility.

Quote:
Sure do, but like five different people on one day on the barely-visited page of Keke Geladze? Excuse me for smelling something fishy.


You need to calm down, it was that Russian witness and my cousin. Two people that day. And then me a few hours later.

Quote:
And we base genealogical records on the ones that do. If we can't access something so we just start saying stuff, that's what's generally referred to as "making shit up."


If that's the case, then I guess all millions of records that aren't published must be "made up".

Quote:
You keep mentioning race. I've called you on this countless times. You keep doing it, it's really bizarre. "B-b-b-but Jews aren't a race, bigotry against them must be fine" is legitimately the only reason I can think of for why.


You keep calling them a race, but the facts state they are a religion. I don't understand how that makes me a bigot.

Quote:
Not their family. Not even other people. Just not-very-bright liars, e.g. you.


Well I'm sorry you think that, I'm very far from being a liar.
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