Soviet cogitations: 4764
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 20 Jul 2007, 06:59 Ideology: Marxism-Leninism Forum Commissar
Has anybody read Marxism and the Philosophy of Language? Mind-blowing stuff, not just for summarizing the current (and future!) currents so well, but also for moving onwards beyond them by assimilating them to a coherent Marxist worldview.
I wonder if Wittgenstein read him? He should have. Here's a longish article presenting Voloshinov and his theory, on language and consciousness, and on his importance (to my mind) to Marxism today. ![]() "You say you have no enemies? How is this so? Have you never spoken the truth, never loved justice?" - Santiago Ramón y Cajal Forum Rules
Pretty good, yeah.
Quote: Can somebody sum up Vygotsky's thoughts on this? I'm not sure whether reading Thought and Language is worth the trouble. Quote: I came over this. It reminds me of how I once considered constructing a language for communism; I decided to omit "to have". lol. "Don't know why i'm still surprised with this shit anyway." - Loz
Soviet cogitations: 4764
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 20 Jul 2007, 06:59 Ideology: Marxism-Leninism Forum Commissar Mabool wrote: I haven't delved into Vygotsky yet, because he's hard to find in Spanish. I am curious about this as well. Wittgenstein refuted the notion that we teach children language by pointing things out to them on similar grounds. The immediate consequence was the emphasis on that children (or people in general) are not passive, empty vessels ready to be "filled" with a static language, as if it were an object; this idea resonates very strongly with Paulo Freire and his Pedagogy of the Oppressed. It also has broader implications in terms of the nature of language and the construction of reality. Quote: That's hilarious. What's more hilarious is that you were correct in a sense. Interesting... ![]() "You say you have no enemies? How is this so? Have you never spoken the truth, never loved justice?" - Santiago Ramón y Cajal Forum Rules Quote: ...but that they learn to speak through social praxis? Sounds like pretty much standard DiaMat epistemology. Quote: Well, why would communism need that verb? Also I was wanking over Sapir-Whorf back then, and it seemed logical to me. It still does. "Don't know why i'm still surprised with this shit anyway." - Loz
Soviet cogitations: 231
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 08 Nov 2010, 22:13 Ideology: Trotskyism Pioneer
Sorry, I have only just seen this, Praxi. I hope it's Ok if I respond to what you say?
There are certainly superficial resemblances bewteen Voloshinov and Wittgenstein, and one very clear echo of the former's work in the latter's: Quote: Compare that with the following: Quote: I suspect Wittgenstein got some of these ideas from Piero Sraffa (whom I mentioned in a post in the Idealism thread) -- or possibly from Bakhtin (with whom he was friends) -- or even from his many other Marxist friends. In fact, the vast majority of his friends (in the 1930/40s) were Communists or Trotskyists. Having said that, Voloshinov's ideas are far too confused to form any part of a Marxist account of language. I have covered this in extensive detail here: http://anti-dialectics.co.uk/page_13_03.htm [Sections (3)-(5).] I will try to summarise that argument later on this year. [By the way, I subject that ISJ article to which you referred to extensive criticism at the above link.] "The emancipation of the working class will be an act of the workers themselves."
Soviet cogitations: 231
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 08 Nov 2010, 22:13 Ideology: Trotskyism Pioneer
Comrades might like to know that I have now traced several parallels between Wittgenstein's work and Voloshinov's (parallels no one has noticed before), which strongly suggest that the former was influenced directly or indirectly by the latter (here, but in more detail here -- use the 'Quick Links' at the top to jump to Section (2f)).
However, if you are using Internet Explorer 10 you will need to engage 'Compatibility Mode' (in the Tools Menu), or these links might not work properly. "The emancipation of the working class will be an act of the workers themselves."
|
Alternative Display:
Mobile view
|
||||||