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Muammar al-Gaddafi

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Soviet cogitations: 5437
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 28 Sep 2009, 00:56
Ideology: Democratic Socialism
Unperson
Post 10 Dec 2009, 21:08
I've been reading about the Libyan leader recently, as it occurred to me that I knew very little about him. I recall vaguely that my socialist grandmother was quite fond of Gaddafi, if for no other reason than the benefits he brought to the Libyan people. Apart from his frankly awesome and outlandish outfits (I wish I could pull off robes like his with sunglasses and not look utterly ridiculous), I'm not sure what to make of him. He seems to be a Pan Africanist, that much is sure, and also an Islamic Socialist.

The fact that he's been the target of so much flak from the media certainly makes me feel sympathetic towards him. Thoughts?
Soviet cogitations: 15
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 08 Dec 2009, 04:13
New Comrade (Say hi & be nice to me!)
Post 12 Dec 2009, 06:44
I really do love his outfits... I saw where he tried to set up his tent at Donald Trump's house for the UN meeting this year. So, is he considered a Communist or just a general wako?
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 14444
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Sep 2006, 22:05
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Philosophized
Post 12 Dec 2009, 06:48
At best he's a socialist and that seems to be more part of the past. But he's certainly not a marxist.
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Soviet cogitations: 6887
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 30 Nov 2007, 08:37
Unperson
Post 13 Dec 2009, 02:16
He's the kind of guy we could support against a pro-American leader. But not the kind of guy we would want in charge in principle.
banistansig1
Soviet cogitations: 5437
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 28 Sep 2009, 00:56
Ideology: Democratic Socialism
Unperson
Post 13 Dec 2009, 15:25
Hmm, well, better him than the Ayatollah at any rate...

Still, those celebrations at the airport when Megrahi returned made me lol. The Scottish flags reminded me of another african dictator...
Soviet cogitations: 1128
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 30 Aug 2008, 18:12
Party Member
Post 13 Dec 2009, 22:58
I get the impression he is very arrogant and is not used to people confronting him or saying no to him. All the signs of a dictator. I'm sure some of his policies have helped the Libyan people but if he does not allow much internal discussion then he is fundamentally flawed in my eyes.
Soviet cogitations: 6887
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 30 Nov 2007, 08:37
Unperson
Post 14 Dec 2009, 01:05
If he's not a marxist communist then he is flawed.
banistansig1
Soviet cogitations: 10005
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 14 Jul 2008, 20:01
Ideology: Trotskyism
Philosophized
Post 14 Dec 2009, 06:52
There have been more than enough Marxist communist leaders who didn't take internal discussion seriously.
"Don't know why i'm still surprised with this shit anyway." - Loz
Soviet cogitations: 6887
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 30 Nov 2007, 08:37
Unperson
Post 14 Dec 2009, 22:28
Sure. But the point is that if he isn't one, he's already disqualified. Regardless of his stance on internal discussion.
banistansig1
Soviet cogitations: 10005
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 14 Jul 2008, 20:01
Ideology: Trotskyism
Philosophized
Post 15 Dec 2009, 01:14
Actually I'd prefer Chavez over Ceausescu or Hoxha at any time.
"Don't know why i'm still surprised with this shit anyway." - Loz
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 865
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Jan 2007, 06:42
Komsomol
Post 15 Dec 2009, 01:57
Comrade al-Gaddafi is definitely a beacon in the struggle against imperialism.

I've read the Green Book, it's available online (in English) here.

It basically outlines the social/cultural, economic and political basis for Jamahiriya socialism.
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Soviet cogitations: 4381
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Oct 2004, 22:04
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Resident Soviet
Post 15 Dec 2009, 03:35
Quote:
Actually I'd prefer Chavez over Ceausescu or Hoxha at any time.


This is exactly what I was thinking. Not only does this kind of attitude give you flexibility in your ability to judge these regimes, but in the geopolitical sense it allows you to think and act realistically and undogmatically (if you are in a position to influence the discourse that is).

By the way, can anyone explain to me what Qaddafi's obsession with terrorism in the 70s and 80s was all about? This whole history kind of makes me weary of supporting him, and the Soviets historically were similarly cautious.
"The thing about capitalism is that it sounds awful on paper and is horrendous in practice. Communism sounds wonderful on paper and when it was put into practice it was done pretty well for what they had to work with." -MiG
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Soviet cogitations: 10737
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 21 Dec 2004, 23:53
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Philosophized
Post 16 Dec 2009, 00:35
@Besoshvili, thanks for the link. I've actually been meaning to read that book for some time now. Hopefully I'll get around to it over winter break. I never realized it was online.
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"By what standard of morality can the violence used by a slave to break his chains be considered the same as the violence of a slave master?" - Walter Rodney
Soviet cogitations: 2407
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 01 Nov 2003, 13:17
Ideology: Other
Forum Commissar
Post 18 Dec 2009, 02:14
Gaddafi funded many armed groups throughout the 1970s and 1980s as well as a good part of the 1990s. More recently though, he has mellowed and become quite friendly with many western leaders. Was he not in Europe recently with Sarkozy and did he also not recently meet Blair? My view on the Megrahi incident is that Gaddafi, judging his warmed relations with the west, was able to gain some leverage and pull off a manuevre such as that. It would have been more damning around ten years ago. Gaddafi realises that unlike Saddam Hussein, if you want to stay in power as a dictator you have to be willing to befriend and align yourself with anyone who could depose you. By 2003 it did not pay for him to be railing against America or the UK.
Soviet cogitations: 5437
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 28 Sep 2009, 00:56
Ideology: Democratic Socialism
Unperson
Post 19 Dec 2009, 17:03
Political Interest wrote:
Gaddafi funded many armed groups throughout the 1970s and 1980s as well as a good part of the 1990s. More recently though, he has mellowed and become quite friendly with many western leaders. Was he not in Europe recently with Sarkozy and did he also not recently meet Blair? My view on the Megrahi incident is that Gaddafi, judging his warmed relations with the west, was able to gain some leverage and pull off a manuevre such as that. It would have been more damning around ten years ago. Gaddafi realises that unlike Saddam Hussein, if you want to stay in power as a dictator you have to be willing to befriend and align yourself with anyone who could depose you. By 2003 it did not pay for him to be railing against America or the UK.


Right now, he seriously does need to. Chances are that if he had continued as he was, the West would've declared he was funding Al-Qaeda and either invaded by now, or would be eyeing them up like Iran.
Soviet cogitations: 2407
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 01 Nov 2003, 13:17
Ideology: Other
Forum Commissar
Post 19 Dec 2009, 18:34
Quote:
Right now, he seriously does need to. Chances are that if he had continued as he was, the West would've declared he was funding Al-Qaeda and either invaded by now, or would be eyeing them up like Iran.


Apparently he is not very good to his own people, however. From what I hear, while Libya does have a state run economy, most of it goes to the government and the people see little of its fruit. George Galloway said that when he was in Libya, there were parts of the country without street lighting. I think that being an ally of the west helps Gaddafi because it allows him to crack down on the group you mentioned and also not be the target of another oil crusade.
Soviet cogitations: 3448
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 26 Jun 2006, 15:59
Ideology: Other Leftist
Party Bureaucrat
Post 19 Dec 2009, 19:45
Quote:
most of it goes to the government and the people see little of its fruit.


I don't know about that, one of the few things you can give Libya is that it has one of the highest standards of living in Africa.
The moment one accepts the notion of 'totalitarianism', one is firmly locked within the liberal-democratic horizon. - Slavoj Žižek
Soviet cogitations: 6887
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 30 Nov 2007, 08:37
Unperson
Post 19 Dec 2009, 23:41
Quote:
there were parts of the country without street lighting.


In Africa there are countries without street lighting. Compared to that I gotta say Libya's not that bad.
banistansig1
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 1537
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 14 Jan 2010, 05:46
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Party Member
Post 31 May 2010, 02:59
Did Gaddafi design the flag? I know that green is an Islamist color but their flag is a little borring.

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"Those who do not move, do not notice their chains." - Rosa Luxemburg
Long Live The Bolivarian Revolution!
RIP Muamar Qadafi
RIP Hugo Chavez
Soviet cogitations: 1384
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 28 Feb 2009, 03:41
Party Member
Post 31 May 2010, 06:32
necroposter! but funny anyway. the red flag is boring too then.
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