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Pol Pot.

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Soviet cogitations: 495
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 03 Mar 2008, 02:36
Komsomol
Post 04 Oct 2009, 01:07
I'd quite like to see you back up your claims that the FARC leadership has no Marxist intellectual background.

Additionally, it is fine to criticise both these movements, but it is the way you do it! That you are correct and there is no other way, that it is un-Marxist to have an opinion that differs from yours.
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Soviet cogitations: 299
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 06 Jul 2009, 10:14
Komsomol
Post 04 Oct 2009, 01:17
In March, 1999, FARC executed three U.S. Indian rights activists on Venezuelan territory after kidnapping them in Colombia. In February 2002, the group’s slow-moving peace negotiation process with President Andres Pastrana's administration was terminated by Bogota following the FARC's plane hijacking and kidnapping of a Colombian Senator from the aircraft. On 7 August, the FARC launched a large-scale mortar attack on the Presidential Palace where President Alvaro Uribe was being inaugurated. High-level foreign delegations—including the United States—attending the inauguration were not injured, but 21 residents of a poor neighborhood nearby were killed by stray rounds in the attack.

I can go on and on about the FARC and how appalling their operations have been. Time and time again they have proven to be militants and not Marxist intellectuals. As for NK I have already told you why they are a pseudo communist regime.
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Soviet cogitations: 7674
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 11 Nov 2004, 02:08
Embalmed
Post 04 Oct 2009, 04:59
SO ABOUT POL POT..........
Soviet cogitations: 495
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 03 Mar 2008, 02:36
Komsomol
Post 04 Oct 2009, 23:31
Quote:
Time and time again they have proven to be militants and not Marxist intellectuals


This is exactly the kind of snobbery I'm talking about. You don't have to have read Das Kapital to take up arms against the government, although their leadership undoubtedly have, if you actually read about them, rather than denouncing anything that doesn't fit with your conception of what revolution is.

I am interested, comrade, whether you would have denounced the Bolshevik revolutionaries when they robbed banks to fund the Party? Or when sometimes an attack went wrong and innocents died?

And I AGREE with you about the DPRK, the fact is you don't seem to be able to accept that somebody else, also a Marxist, may have a different opinion than yours and remain a Marxist.
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Soviet cogitations: 299
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 06 Jul 2009, 10:14
Komsomol
Post 05 Oct 2009, 05:59
It's ironic you say that, considering you don't think it's okay I have my opinion and standards yet preach that I shouldn't denounce other self-proclaimed Marxists. I have already shared my opinion with you that NK is screwed up and FARC is a barbarian reactionary group. If you can't handle that opinion then I suggest you leave, because SE is a discussion forum for all views. And those little things like Das Kapital will be extremely important when the FARC takes over, if ever.


"A spider conducts operations that resemble those of a weaver, and a bee puts to shame many an architect in the construction of her cells. But what distinguishes the worst architect from the best of bees is this, that the architect raises his structure in imagination before he erects it in reality." - Karl Marx

The FARC walk the walk but don't talk the talk.

If you want to continue this tirade against my opinion then please do so in a message considering we have gotten off topic which is Pol Pot.
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Soviet cogitations: 495
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 03 Mar 2008, 02:36
Komsomol
Post 05 Oct 2009, 07:10
Jeez, how many times do I have to hammer home the rather simple point that it is the way you put across your views that is extremely sectarian. You seem to see yourself as the sole interpreter of all things Marxist, those who disagree are simply wrong, rather than also being Marxists but with differing views when assessing the circumstances that certain groups operate in.

Gratz on the Marx quote, how about something more relevant to...say..sectarianism next time? Which is what your attitude is dangerously close to, comrade.

And you mention that I am unable to 'hand;e' your opinion. Well, I'm hardly in fits of tears about it, but that is precisely why I am criticising you! I can accept that there are Marxists who will defend FARC, and there are Marxists who will oppose them. I'm just taking issue with the fact that you see yourself as the sole arbiter and because you personally "don't condone" an action, they are therefore wholly invalid.

I have also (painfully obviously) repeated that I in fact agree with your views on NK, and am ambivalent about the FARC.

Also, you didn't answer my question about the Bolsheviks. Would you have held them to your rigorous moral imperatives when they were robbing banks to fund the party? Or would you have cast aside their struggle as un-Marxist because a lot of their rank and file membership hadn't fully elucidated the finer points of the Critique of the Gotha Program?

I prefer my debates to be in public, and will leave it up to the moderators to decide whether this debate on sectarianism is one worth having, here, or if it may be continued, publicly, on another thread.
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Soviet cogitations: 299
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 06 Jul 2009, 10:14
Komsomol
Post 05 Oct 2009, 15:27
I never denounced anyone for speaking positively about the FARC. I simply gave MY opinion on them. Your trying to corner me. Either I say what I feel that killing innocence and stealing is wrong and get called out for "denouncing" or I say nothing and appear to be avoiding your questions. And it's all relative pal. I can have whatever standards I please. So get over yourself and allow the discussion on Pol Pot, or whats left of it to continue. You made it quite clear your an advocate for killing innocence and theft if it leads to revolutionary victory(Otherwise you would be a Sectartian like me
), so clearly my standards of virtue and ethics can't be applied to your view of Marxism.
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Soviet cogitations: 495
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 03 Mar 2008, 02:36
Komsomol
Post 05 Oct 2009, 20:32
Quote:
I never denounced anyone for speaking positively about the FARC


You implied it would be un-Marxist to support them, that is a pretty big claim.

Quote:
Either I say what I feel that killing innocence and stealing is wrong and get called out for "denouncing" or I say nothing and appear to be avoiding your question


I personally am completely willing to take on criticism about FARC, as I say I am on the fence about them. What you are seemingly arguing is that it is un-Marxist to commit crimes to fund the party, such as the Bolsheviks robbing a bank. Now could you please answer MY question as to whether the Bolsheviks were guilty of revolutionary immorality by funding their activities through bank heists? Or are we to compete against capitalist parties (with their million dollar backers) by street collections from people who are already struggling to make ends meet?

As for my position, I think you have to keep violence to a minimum, but the bourgeoisie aren't going to let go of state power without a fight, and a certain amount of violence will of course be neccesary, as will be a certain amount of illicit activity to top up party funds.
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Soviet cogitations: 1278
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 28 Feb 2009, 02:54
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Party Member
Post 05 Oct 2009, 23:57
Fellow Comrade wrote:
That's a very poor comparison. Intellectuals are encouraged in North Korea.


I'm just comparing their moronic ways to govern a nation, not their killings or persecutions.
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Soviet cogitations: 299
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 06 Jul 2009, 10:14
Komsomol
Post 06 Oct 2009, 00:04
I personally think the Bolsheviks lacked humanity. And you make it seem like the only options are to kill and steal or collecting donations. It's far more complicated than that.
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Soviet cogitations: 495
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 03 Mar 2008, 02:36
Komsomol
Post 06 Oct 2009, 01:18
How would you go about raising funds? Aside from expropriations of capitalist property, membership dues/donations etc.
Soviet cogitations: 10005
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 14 Jul 2008, 20:01
Ideology: Trotskyism
Philosophized
Post 06 Oct 2009, 10:27
We probably should invest in stock...
"Don't know why i'm still surprised with this shit anyway." - Loz
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Soviet cogitations: 299
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 06 Jul 2009, 10:14
Komsomol
Post 06 Oct 2009, 11:35
I must admit I'm torn. If stealing furthered a communist agenda, I would have to decide if the action at hand weighed more than my ethics. I would probably say yes, but it doesn't make it any less distasteful. The true struggle in my opinion, is maintaining a sense of humanity, virtue, and ethics in the war on capitalism. These are clearly not easy questions as I can not give an immediate alternative to the aforementioned killing/stealing. But what I do know is that there are possibilities we have not yet explored. The world is rapidly changing as we progress into the technological age and thus so do our pre-conceived notions of Marxism. Marxism has a flexibility that has allowed it to persist.
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Soviet cogitations: 258
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 03 Oct 2009, 17:50
Komsomol
Post 11 Oct 2009, 21:56
Things that I consider positive about Pol Pot are that he dreamed a Communist society, to destroy class oppression. The big flaw in his dream is that he acted with the result to level class differences downward, not to improve the conditions of the people, but to worsen everybody's conditions. Even much worse, he created a sort of police regime that slaughtered his people in one of the most barbarous thinkable way on the basis of no reason.
If you tremble at the slightest indignation done to a fellow human, then you are my comrade-in-arms. Commander E. Guevara de la Serna
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