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What do you think of Stalin?

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Soviet cogitations: 2940
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 19 Jul 2004, 16:21
Party Bureaucrat
Post 08 Jun 2005, 18:38
Comrade Sergei wrote:
I agree. I am very torn on the subject of Stalin. He was good for the Soviet Union as a nation, But bad for it as a Communist nation. Several of his policies led the soviet union away from the path to communism. However, it cannot be denied that he strengthened the Soviet union as a world power. A very complex problem.

Yes, my thoughts exactly.


On a side note, it's quite funny that when I first started posting here I was very anti-Stalin but of late I have begun to question why I should believe "official" sources concerning Stalin when I don't regarding other matters.
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The future belongs to those of us still willing to get our hands dirty!
-Kaptn K
Soviet cogitations: 142
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 22 Mar 2004, 23:00
Pioneer
Post 08 Jun 2005, 21:39
Stalin was a hero and one of the 20th centuries greatest revolutionaries and leaders. He created a democratic and socialist society for and by the working people.

Trotsky on the other hand, he got what he deserved:


Y si, yo hablo espanol .
"There's no reason for the establishment to fear me. But it has every right to fear the people collectively -I am one with the people."-Huey Newton
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Soviet cogitations: 1180
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 25 Jan 2005, 10:55
Party Member
Post 09 Jun 2005, 23:29
Quote:
He created a democratic


Ummm…. Have you ever read a history book? Do you even know who Stalin was?

And by the way: Stalin drove his son to attempted suicide because he forbade the fellow to marry a woman because she was Jewish. When he failed to kill himself, Stalin commented “Idiot, cannot even shoot straight”. Stalin’s wife to also committed suicide latter because she discovered what he was doing to the country and the people.
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“Patriotism is when love of your own people comes first; nationalism, when hate for people other than your own comes first.” - Charles De Gaulle
Soviet cogitations: 1236
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 05 Feb 2005, 05:12
Unperson
Post 10 Jun 2005, 01:13
That is wrong, the Soviet Union's living standards were improving post-war and then on, Stalin built up strong Soviet Army, crushed fascism, put the USSR on the map, killed Trotsky, and almost succeeded in "Final Solution" of jews to Siberian-Jew autonomy.

Stalin did more than all of the other Soviet leaders (besides Lenin) combined. So think twice about the man before speculating.
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Soviet cogitations: 844
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 22 Jun 2004, 21:01
Komsomol
Post 10 Jun 2005, 02:36
Quote:
Have you ever read a history book?

Not everything in a western history textbook is correct you know. Basically just about any source is liable to be subjective.

Quote:
Stalin drove his son to attempted suicide because he forbade the fellow to marry a woman because she was Jewish. When he failed to kill himself, Stalin commented “Idiot, cannot even shoot straight”. Stalin’s wife to also committed suicide latter because she discovered what he was doing to the country and the people.

Let’s play a game called “citation”, try it.

Quote:
and almost succeeded in "Final Solution" of jews to Siberian-Jew autonomy.


"National and racial chauvinism is a vestige of the misanthropic customs characteristic of the period of cannibalism. Anti-semitism, as an extreme form of racial chauvinism, is the most dangerous vestige of cannibalism."

"Anti-semitism is of advantage to the exploiters as a lightning conductor that deflects the blows aimed by the working people at capitalism. Anti-semitism is dangerous for the working people as being a false path that leads them off the right road and lands them in the jungle. Hence Communists, as consistent internationalists, cannot but be irreconcilable, sworn enemies of anti-semitism."

"In the U.S.S.R. anti-semitism is punishable with the utmost severity of the law as a phenomenon deeply hostile to the Soviet system. Under U.S.S.R. law active anti-semites are liable to the death penalty."

J. Stalin
January 12, 1931

Try not to believe everything you hear from an admitted Nazi.
Soviet cogitations: 342
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 25 Mar 2005, 23:42
Komsomol
Post 11 Jun 2005, 22:22
Looks like many people love Nazi thing
Please give aid to the victims in Cuba and Haiti do to the Hurricane and be true communist.

Over 600,00 Cubas do not have homes and in shouters
Soviet cogitations: 68
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 12 Mar 2005, 13:58
Pioneer
Post 11 Jun 2005, 23:11
I'm sorry to side track a bit... can anyone enlighten me about this "purge the Jews" thing? I have read lots of stories about him wanting to kill the Jews for some reasons, but I couldn't get a single idea of what was going on during that time.
"I believe in one thing only, the power of the human will."-Joseph Stalin
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Economic Left/Right:-7.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian:-4.77
Soviet cogitations: 844
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 22 Jun 2004, 21:01
Komsomol
Post 12 Jun 2005, 02:55
I think my quote proved quite conclusively that Stalin didn’t like anti-Semitism, or any form of anti-Jewish discrimination, purging, etc. Basically those stories about him having done or planning to do anything to that extent are either a lot of slander or fabricated by people like former user and Nazi “Interrupt_00h” who probably wished he had done so in accordance with their sick ideology. Either way, it’s a lot of garbage.
Soviet cogitations: 142
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 22 Mar 2004, 23:00
Pioneer
Post 12 Jun 2005, 22:17
Quote:
Ummm…. Have you ever read a history book? Do you even know who Stalin was?


I don't read history books written by the rich.

Quote:
And by the way: Stalin drove his son to attempted suicide because he forbade the fellow to marry a woman because she was Jewish.


Oh yeah, Stalin is now the reason for suicide!

Did he invent AIDS too?

BTW, Stalin's second wife WAS JEWISH.

Personally I think many Jews are bourgeois and cosmopolitan, but there are still good Jews and Stalin was good friends with revolutionary athiest jews (Kaganovich, his own wife, Molotov's wife, etc).

Quote:
When he failed to kill himself, Stalin commented “Idiot, cannot even shoot straight”. Stalin’s wife to also committed suicide latter because she discovered what he was doing to the country and the people.


Yes then the lizard nazis, led by resurrected Fascist American Davey Crocket, came under Stalin's orders, and used their mind controlling powers to make her commit suicide.
"There's no reason for the establishment to fear me. But it has every right to fear the people collectively -I am one with the people."-Huey Newton
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Soviet cogitations: 6211
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 04 Aug 2004, 20:49
Ideology: Democratic Socialism
Embalmed
Post 12 Jun 2005, 22:20
Do......Not........Mention.......The.......Ukrainian.......Famine.........

If you do so, you will be supporting Hearst, Hitler, Goebbels and all that lot, it was a bad, naughty over (understatement of the century) exaggeration of fact.
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"Phil Spector is haunting Europe" -Dr. Karl H. Marx
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Soviet cogitations: 1180
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 25 Jan 2005, 10:55
Party Member
Post 14 Jun 2005, 06:32
Quote:
Not everything in a western history textbook is correct you know. Basically just about any source is liable to be subjective.


Quote:
I don't read history books written by the rich.


Maybe you should read something other than history books by Pro-Stalinists, and get a bigger picture on what actually was going on. You accuse me of being one-sided and biased, whilst you do the exact same thing, except from the other direction.

Quote:
Stalin did more than all of the other Soviet leaders (besides Lenin) combined.


But were these things actually good?

Quote:
Oh yeah, Stalin is now the reason for suicide!

Did he invent AIDS too?


I believe that you either read my message to hastily or do not have a particularly good grasp on English grammar, because I most certainly did not say that Stalin invented Suicide, merely that he drove his wife to it because of the way he treated his country and his wife (not particularly compassionately). There is a difference.

Quote:
Yes then the lizard nazis, led by resurrected Fascist American Davey Crocket, came under Stalin's orders, and used their mind controlling powers to make her commit suicide.


For some obscure reason I believe that you just may be over exaggerating a tad.

So far my history books, my school books, my documentaries, my parents and my teachers seem to agree on his matter. But than again they must be all wrong after all, Stalin was a glorious hero with a little halo floating above his head.

Quote:
I'm sorry to side track a bit... can anyone enlighten me about this "purge the Jews" thing? I have read lots of stories about him wanting to kill the Jews for some reasons, but I couldn't get a single idea of what was going on during that time.


I believe it was because after he failed to bring the Israeli Communist Party to power after the creation of Israel he was terrified of a ‘Zionist-Plot’ to kill him. Before that however, I am not certain, but than again before the Second World War Jews were never particularly popular. They are still not popular now in some circles come to think of it.
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“Patriotism is when love of your own people comes first; nationalism, when hate for people other than your own comes first.” - Charles De Gaulle
Soviet cogitations: 142
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 22 Mar 2004, 23:00
Pioneer
Post 14 Jun 2005, 19:01
Quote:
Maybe you should read something other than history books by Pro-Stalinists, and get a bigger picture on what actually was going on. You accuse me of being one-sided and biased, whilst you do the exact same thing, except from the other direction.


Maybe you should read something other than history books written by pro-capitalists and pro-trotskyists.

I am a Marxist so I use my own scientific logic to come to a conclusion on Stalin, not some scholar for dollars' conclusion (Solzhenitsyn, Conquest, and any other pro-west filth).

Quote:
I believe that you either read my message to hastily or do not have a particularly good grasp on English grammar, because I most certainly did not say that Stalin invented Suicide, merely that he drove his wife to it because of the way he treated his country and his wife (not particularly compassionately). There is a difference.


LOL you said Stalin was responsible for the sucides of people around him.

Unless Stalin used his satanic mind control powers to make her put a gun to her head, how is anyone but the person doing the shooting responsible for a suicide?


Quote:
For some obscure reason I believe that you just may be over exaggerating a tad.

So far my history books, my school books, my documentaries, my parents and my teachers seem to agree on his matter. But than again they must be all wrong after all, Stalin was a glorious hero with a little halo floating above his head.


Your history books, your yankee history channel, your school books, your parents, and especially your teachers (paid to indoctrinate you) are products of a capitalist society. If you think a bunch of yankees and yankee-supporters are going to tell you the truth about one of the few men that stood up against the yankees in the name of working people and the downtrodden, then you won't have any luck.

Quote:
I believe it was because after he failed to bring the Israeli Communist Party to power after the creation of Israel he was terrified of a ‘Zionist-Plot’ to kill him. Before that however, I am not certain, but than again before the Second World War Jews were never particularly popular. They are still not popular now in some circles come to think of it


The Jews are not 'popular' with good reason. The majority of them have no interest in anything but money and power. They are also an extremely racist sect of people who pat themselves on the back as "the Chosen people" Stalin had good reason to be afraid of them.
"There's no reason for the establishment to fear me. But it has every right to fear the people collectively -I am one with the people."-Huey Newton
Soviet cogitations: 844
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 22 Jun 2004, 21:01
Komsomol
Post 14 Jun 2005, 23:47
Quote:
Maybe you should read something other than history books by Pro-Stalinists, and get a bigger picture on what actually was going on. You accuse me of being one-sided and biased, whilst you do the exact same thing, except from the other direction.

Wee, so because I’m pro-something (in this case pro-Stalin) means I must have only read material affirming my avocation. By that logic, that means I should have only read books by “pro-Communists” and just ignored other ones by people who don’t like Communists.

But unfortunately for your baseless claim, I consider reading differing viewpoints to be highly valuable. The problem is that most anti-Stalin works generally just concern themselves with discrediting Stalin and harping over and over again about him being a bloodthirsty dictator with some randomly high death toll figures that have no basis in reality. On the other hand pro-Stalin works cite archival information, relevant sources, and quote people who knew Stalin personally. Seeing which arguments are more compelling is simply a matter of good reasoning and deductive judgment.

Quote:
But than again they must be all wrong after all, Stalin was a glorious hero with a little halo floating above his head.

Thanks for the sarcasm trying to straw man your opponents’ arguments. I’m sorry that I forgot that everyone who supports Stalin supports him dogmatically…

Now I won’t deal with those arguments you aimed at J.Jordan as that is for him to address, but I can obviously see you don’t understand sarcasm, rhetorical questions or anything of that sort.

Notice how you have still not supplied any source for these claims:

Quote:
Stalin drove his son to attempted suicide because he forbade the fellow to marry a woman because she was Jewish. When he failed to kill himself, Stalin commented “Idiot, cannot even shoot straight”. Stalin’s wife to also committed suicide latter because she discovered what he was doing to the country and the people.


Any relevant links, book titles or other source that could show any proof for these claims? Without them, you cannot be taken seriously.
[+-]
Soviet cogitations: 209
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 12 Oct 2004, 03:05
Unperson
Post 10 Jul 2005, 05:07
Good Choice comrade. THe man is more than just a man, but a genius and great Generalisimus.
I AM A COMMUNIST NOT A NAZI
Soviet cogitations: 342
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 25 Mar 2005, 23:42
Komsomol
Post 10 Jul 2005, 06:00
Quote:
Negatives.

Monsterous dictator only second to hitler.
Purged the red army at the time when the threat was highest.
Ignored all reasonable advice that the germans were about to invade
Insanely paranoid and suspicious
Mass famines and gulag population
Deportations
Responsible for numerous soviet deaths, because he crippled the army that could have saved the soviet poeple sooner.
Digusting treatment of liberated POW's



Please back up your claims before you come here and say Negatives things
Please give aid to the victims in Cuba and Haiti do to the Hurricane and be true communist.

Over 600,00 Cubas do not have homes and in shouters
Soviet cogitations: 342
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 25 Mar 2005, 23:42
Komsomol
Post 10 Jul 2005, 06:07
The Nazi and war fighting front as nothing to do with Stalin and is other topic!! I thing the moderator should split that part of the thread and move to right area of this group, becuse it is hard to read



Good topic is


War fighting front despute
What is Fascism
Please give aid to the victims in Cuba and Haiti do to the Hurricane and be true communist.

Over 600,00 Cubas do not have homes and in shouters
Soviet cogitations: 358
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 09 May 2005, 23:35
Unperson
Post 10 Jul 2005, 06:10
That's right-Stalin was dead during WWII and the only reason we think he was alive is because the CIA placed a lookalike in power.
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Soviet cogitations: 2775
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 27 Sep 2004, 23:23
Party Bureaucrat
Post 10 Jul 2005, 19:48
actually, didn't stalin leave most of the war planning to his generals?
Cause whenever he tried to improve the army, he purged everyone who knew anything about war.
Whoppee for Comrade Sergei.
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 254
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 05 Jun 2005, 10:51
Komsomol
Post 11 Jul 2005, 23:12
Comrade Sergei wrote:
didn't stalin leave most of the war planning to his generals?

Yes, eventually. After Stalin’s purged military saw combat and did horribly, and every time Stalin himself had a part in planning military campaigns to disastrous effect, he had no choice but to let his generals plan the war leading to the defeat of the Nazi fascists.
"There are forty-nine states in the Union, and the Soviet of Washington"
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"All Power to the Soviets!"
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 22
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 17 Jul 2005, 09:06
Pioneer
Post 17 Jul 2005, 10:22
maybe i'm a bit late in on this topic but what the hey

Stalin was a mass murderer, he was actually worst than Hitler in terms of how many people died under his power and his leadership. his purges were unnessesary and fueled by a physcotic paranoia. He even purged his own family members, and when his son was captured by the germans, Stalin claimed to have no son, and left his son at the mercy of the Nazi's of which almost none was given.

Stalin, The Man of Steel was in no doubt a physcotic genocide killer, who deserved more than any german officer of the SS to be tried at Nuremburg for his crimes against the Russian Peoples.
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