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Why was homosexuality relegalised in the USSR?

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User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 4953
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 13 Feb 2008, 15:25
Ideology: Other Leftist
Politburo
Post 26 Dec 2010, 09:56
I only have an objection if the Left gets caught up in what are really side issues. The main problem we need to solve is capitalism. Issues like gay marriage are still important but secondary.
Soviet cogitations: 987
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 27 Apr 2007, 18:04
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Komsomol
Post 19 Jan 2011, 19:07
Fellow Comrade wrote:
I only have an objection if the Left gets caught up in what are really side issues.

This is one of the majors problems in the Left movement today. "Let's not talk about capitalism, let's pity the poor people and try to aid them through charity" This doesn't work. The main contradiction is between the working people and the bourgeoisie. Opposition to gay marriage is, IMO, something like opposition to black people participating in society.
Soviet cogitations: 31
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 13 Jan 2011, 12:15
Unperson
Post 31 Jan 2011, 15:12
Quote:
Since when is communism about homosexual rights anyway

That's a good question. I don't believe it does. But I'm apparently in the minority with that. Homosexuals are more then just deviants, and outright sociopaths who would stab you in the back, given half the chance. There will never be a successful revolution as long as they are considered "equals".

The concern of communism should only be the abolishment of private enterprise and the abuses that come with it. Eventually such measures will breed a better world. All the rhetoric about gay rights, women rights, is arm chair liberal crap invented by the right wing to turn the left against each other, and it's apparently done a fine job. Homosexuality isn't new, it isn't rebellious. It went on a lot in ancient Rome. Which was hardly a proletariat's dream state. It's suffice to say the more bourgeois a nation is, the more sexually indulgent it's going to be. I'd like for nothing more then to put hormone suppressants in the water. Because what use would sex have in the revolution? It's merely a recreational activity if not for procreation. So homosexuals are by pure logic of deduction, doing it for purely selfish reasons. It goes to prove a lot about their character, that it's all they can think about. They don't care about the workers, the oppressed, the disenfranchised, or even their own families. Only themselves... if that.

Marx himself never mentioned homosexuals, and Stalin wasn't the only communist to oppose homosexuality. If you ask me, Stalin didn't go nearly far enough. He should have made it plainly obvious that homosexuals have no place in the red world. Sex is unlike any other decadence, in that is actively requires the exploitation of others. "Consent" is an abstract. It doesn't change the fact that as a whole, sex is more destructive then narcotics. If people want to feel good, and escape reality, take a drug of some sort. At least then you're only hurting yourself. Not corrupting the rest of society, dragging it down with you, spreading diseases, and expecting others to adhere to a backward system.

Only capitalism has to gain from homosexuality. Think about it. What does capitalism market most? Sex. Viagra, prostitution, condoms, magazines that depict sexual acts, movies that talk about sex, books on how to be good at sex, pornography, strip clubs, gay bars, there isn't a moment in the western time zone that isn't devoted to sticking your junk in one hole or another. And meanwhile there are people that think opposing homosexuality, and all in all, ALL sexuality is "reactionary".
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Soviet cogitations: 14448
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Sep 2006, 22:05
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Philosophized
Post 31 Jan 2011, 15:17
That is unsubstantiated nonsense. All of it.
Image
Soviet cogitations: 2408
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 01 Nov 2003, 13:17
Ideology: Other
Forum Commissar
Post 31 Jan 2011, 21:24
Quote:
What does capitalism market most? Sex. Viagra, prostitution, condoms, magazines that depict sexual acts, movies that talk about sex, books on how to be good at sex, pornography, strip clubs, homosexual bars, there isn't a moment in the western time zone that isn't devoted to sticking your junk in one hole or another. And meanwhile there are people that think opposing homosexuality, and all in all, ALL sexuality is "reactionary".


It is good someone is not afraid to say this.
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 4779
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 12 May 2010, 07:43
Ideology: Other Leftist
Politburo
Post 31 Jan 2011, 21:31
Political Interest wrote:
It is good someone is not afraid to say this.

Except that it is false...

Capitalism capitalizes (for a lack of a better word) on sexuality, but capitalism did not produce sexuality, and as far as I know from my studies of history, homosexuality existed long before capitalism. The appropriation of homosexuality into capitalist culture is unfortunate and has created a branch of identity politics separate from the class struggle, but it does not mean that the struggle for equal rights cannot become a part of the class struggle.

Sex, whether it is with someone of the same or opposite gender, is a part of being human!

Quote:
Marx himself never mentioned homosexuals, and Stalin wasn't the only communist to oppose homosexuality.

For Marx, it wasn't an issue. For Stalin, it was because of influences from the cultural norms of his time.
“Conservatism is the blind and fear-filled worship of dead radicals” - Mark Twain
Soviet cogitations: 2408
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 01 Nov 2003, 13:17
Ideology: Other
Forum Commissar
Post 31 Jan 2011, 21:49
Quote:
Except that it is false...

Capitalism capitalizes (for a lack of a better word) on sexuality, but capitalism did not produce sexuality, and as far as I know from my studies of history, homosexuality existed long before capitalism. The appropriation of homosexuality into capitalist culture is unfortunate and has created a branch of identity politics separate from the class struggle, but it does not mean that the struggle for equal rights cannot become a part of the class struggle.


Whether or not capitalism created homosexuality is by the by. The fact is that massive consumerism and the culture of materialism create this environment of hyper-sexuality. I am not one to place judgement, I do not say "Because you do this behind closed doors, I am not going to look at you", so you cannot say I am being self-righteous. In this context however, we are discussing our opinions and this is simply my opinion. Look around you. Whenever I leave my residence and walk down the street, everyday nearly, I see on a phone booth or on the floor some advertisment for sexual services or pornography. On even more benign advertisments there is always a subtle sexual reference. Around you people only discuss sex. It is as if the whole place is fired up like one thing. In inter-personal relations there are often sexual undertones. Yes, we are all adults as people tell me, but what happened to polite society? What is wrong with things being a bit conservative, a bit special, a bit barred and off limits? It would be nice not to walk into a restaurant and see something trying to sell me food with reference to a sexual act, yes this did happen to me.

Quote:
Sex, whether it is with someone of the same or opposite gender, is a part of being human!


Of course it is, but we have rules for how we live our lives and conduct ourselves as human beings. I hope I never go back on these words.
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 4779
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 12 May 2010, 07:43
Ideology: Other Leftist
Politburo
Post 31 Jan 2011, 22:33
Fair enough. I agree that capitalism promotes sexuality a bit too far. I still think that Jim's assertion that only capitalism profits from homosexuality because of its creation of a hypersexual culture is stretching it.
“Conservatism is the blind and fear-filled worship of dead radicals” - Mark Twain
Soviet cogitations: 7
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 31 Jan 2011, 07:17
New Comrade (Say hi & be nice to me!)
Post 01 Feb 2011, 12:28
I believe that homosexuality - it a disease that should be treated. In the USSR it was banned. The most persistent homosexuals were in prison. In criminal law prior to 1991 there was a law providing for punishment for homosexuality. (Article 121 of the Criminal Code of the RSFSR), but were punished homosexuals are very rare. Discussion of sexual problems in the Soviet Union was considered a shameful phenomenon. I think that is correct. Since there were very few crimes committed sexual assault.
Lenin lived, Lenin lives, Lenin will live
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User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 267
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 05 Dec 2010, 16:17
Komsomol
Post 04 Feb 2011, 07:50
poligraf wrote:
I believe that homosexuality - it a disease that should be treated. In the USSR it was banned. The most persistent homosexuals were in prison. In criminal law prior to 1991 there was a law providing for punishment for homosexuality. (Article 121 of the Criminal Code of the RSFSR), but were punished homosexuals are very rare. Discussion of sexual problems in the Soviet Union was considered a shameful phenomenon. I think that is correct. Since there were very few crimes committed sexual assault.

This is repulsive. Anyone who fights against class oppression but advocates oppression towards others (homosexuals, etc) is a hypocrite and an embarrasment to the left.

I wrote:
All types of people commit crimes, cheat, abuse, are addicted to narcotics, are sociopaths, are criminally insane, are bourgiosie, etc. Whether they're homosexual, straight, white, black, communist or capitalist. I think you'll find a great deal many hetrosexuals commit more crimes than homosexuals. The idea that free love is a bourgiosie demand is stupid, a person's sexuality is not defined by their class, but by the person themself. Whether they're bourgiosie or proletariat, they can't help their sexual orientation, nor can they help the class they are born into.


PSL wrote:
Leftists are tireless fighters against all forms of oppression. We believe that racism, sexism, anti-immigrant bigotry, homophobia and all other kinds of discrimination divide poor and working people and must be fought if we ever want to move forward. We put ourselves in that revolutionary tradition of socialists who take up the banners of Black liberation, women’s liberation and LGBT liberation.
Free love, not trade!
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 4779
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 12 May 2010, 07:43
Ideology: Other Leftist
Politburo
Post 04 Feb 2011, 07:58
poligraf wrote:
I believe that homosexuality - it a disease that should be treated. In the USSR it was banned. The most persistent homosexuals were in prison. In criminal law prior to 1991 there was a law providing for punishment for homosexuality. (Article 121 of the Criminal Code of the RSFSR), but were punished homosexuals are very rare.

Yes, and the fact that the USSR stopped enforcing punishment for homosexuality shows that they might have realized such a conservative attitude was a mistake, and that there was no real reason to ban or punish someone for something that was not exactly their choice, or even if it were their choice, that such things shouldn't matter in the grand scheme of building socialism and creating an egalitarian society. Cuba and China both had similar policies, but in both countries, these policies and attitudes have been changed as well in recent years.

Quote:
Discussion of sexual problems in the Soviet Union was considered a shameful phenomenon. I think that is correct. Since there were very few crimes committed sexual assault.

That's some weird circular correlation-causation fallacy right there...
“Conservatism is the blind and fear-filled worship of dead radicals” - Mark Twain
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 676
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 11 Sep 2009, 07:33
Ideology: Left Communism
Forum Commissar
Post 04 Feb 2011, 09:44
poligraf wrote:
I believe that homosexuality - it a disease that should be treated.

Why is homosexuality a disease? Could you explain your reasoning?
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Soviet cogitations: 4501
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Oct 2004, 22:04
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Resident Soviet
Post 04 Feb 2011, 22:09
Guys, please note that poligraf's reasoning comes from a non-liberal, non-Western position. Please be reasonable in your attempts to convince him why he is wrong, rather than just criticizing his position.
"The thing about capitalism is that it sounds awful on paper and is horrendous in practice. Communism sounds wonderful on paper and when it was put into practice it was done pretty well for what they had to work with." -MiG
Soviet cogitations: 7
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 31 Jan 2011, 07:17
New Comrade (Say hi & be nice to me!)
Post 05 Feb 2011, 10:18
Dear Comrades! I apologize if I offended someone. Homosexuality is a fact. It is not always the person to blame is he is such. Nature, too, sometimes make mistakes. Creates a man with all the signs of the opposite sex. Such I am very sorry. They are not easy to live in society. But if a person corresponds to its sex. And showing homosexuality. I think it's just folly. Or mental disorder. Modern psychiatry is it easy to fix. Most often, such people are deluding themselves. And in the future this is becomes a bad habit. Do not be mad me. If I offended someone.
Lenin lived, Lenin lives, Lenin will live
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User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 267
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 05 Dec 2010, 16:17
Komsomol
Post 05 Feb 2011, 11:34
I'm not offended, but I think, as a leftist, you should open your mind and be more accepting of such issues. The class oppression you fight against is just as bad as the oppression that homosexuals (and many others) recieve for being different.

Homosexuality is a beautiful thing and not a mental disorder, it does not affect the person's ability to live their daily life. The only thing wrong with homosexuality are the people who persecute it. I am not hetrosexual, nor are alot of our comrades in the leftist movement.

Quote:
I agree that capitalism promotes sexuality a bit too far.

Capitalism does over promote sexuality, but in the wrong way. Capitalists don't care about free love and confidence of expression, they only care about making a profit off the mass audience (hormonal teens) who are curious about sex appeal, much like the latest music or fashion. Capitalism "promotes" sex in a stereotyped manner that implies that in order to be sexually attractive you have to be or look a certain way. It is this issue that causes so many people to be self-conscious about their own sexuality and discriminative of other's. What should be promoted is for people to be confident and proud while expressing their sexual identity and accepting of other's.

Quote:
hypersexual culture

Woot!
Free love, not trade!
Soviet cogitations: 10005
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 14 Jul 2008, 20:01
Ideology: Trotskyism
Philosophized
Post 08 Feb 2011, 10:28
Quote:
I'm not offended, but I think, as a leftist, you should open your mind and be more accepting of such issues. The class oppression you fight against is just as bad as the oppression that homosexuals (and many others) recieve for being different.


No. Class oppression is the core of capitalism. Sexual oppression, on the other hand, is just something that sucks, but it has nothing in particular to do with capitalism, since it has existed before and can exist under socialism, too, as Stalin has proven. As a communist, your primary goal is the overthrow of capitalism, so it's logical that the fight against class oppression has higher priority than the fight against sexual oppression.

Quote:
Homosexuality is a beautiful thing and not a mental disorder, it does not affect the person's ability to live their daily life. The only thing wrong with homosexuality are the people who persecute it. I am not hetrosexual, nor are alot of our comrades in the leftist movement.


Yes, you are. As a bisexual, you're also heterosexual. But that's just nitpicking.

Quote:
Capitalism does over promote sexuality, but in the wrong way. Capitalists don't care about free love and confidence of expression, they only care about making a profit off the mass audience (hormonal teens) who are curious about sex appeal, much like the latest music or fashion. Capitalism "promotes" sex in a stereotyped manner that implies that in order to be sexually attractive you have to be or look a certain way. It is this issue that causes so many people to be self-conscious about their own sexuality and discriminative of other's. What should be promoted is for people to be confident and proud while expressing their sexual identity and accepting of other's.


Agreed. But I had to look up what "self-conscious" means, I thought it was the same thing as "self-aware".


What capitalism does in fact, is attempt to make a profit by marketing fashions and lifestyles that appeal to the heterosexual majority. Hence the sidelining of homosexuality and other sexual deviations from the average.
"Don't know why i'm still surprised with this shit anyway." - Loz
[+-]
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 267
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 05 Dec 2010, 16:17
Komsomol
Post 08 Feb 2011, 12:00
Mabool wrote:
No. Class oppression is the core of capitalism. Sexual oppression, on the other hand, is just something that sucks, but it has nothing in particular to do with capitalism, since it has existed before and can exist under socialism, too, as Stalin has proven. As a communist, your primary goal is the overthrow of capitalism, so it's logical that the fight against class oppression has higher priority than the fight against sexual oppression.
It doesn't have anything in particular to do with capitalism, but is often a result (aswell as many other forms of oppression) of the general oppressive nature of capitalist society. Oppression is oppression, no matter what type. However, I do agree that in order to combat social oppression, class oppression (which inevidibly leads to social oppression) has to be eliminated first.

Quote:
Yes, you are. As a bisexual, you're also heterosexual. But that's just nitpicking.
Hetrosexual is a sexual attraction to only the opposite sex, bisexual is an attraction to both sexes


Quote:
What capitalism does in fact, is attempt to make a profit by marketing fashions and lifestyles that appeal to the heterosexual majority. Hence the sidelining of homosexuality and other sexual deviations from the average.
This too
Free love, not trade!
Soviet cogitations: 455
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Nov 2010, 01:24
Komsomol
Post 08 Feb 2011, 17:12
Quote:
What capitalism does in fact, is attempt to make a profit by marketing fashions and lifestyles that appeal to the heterosexual majority. Hence the sidelining of homosexuality and other sexual deviations from the average

Well that's how it used to be, now they would rather normalize homosexuality and make profit by marketing gay fashion and lifestyle.Capitalism has to expand its markets you know
We need to make revolution so our kids wont grow up in corporate prostitution
Sky was the limit. Then the communists came!
Soviet cogitations: 10005
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 14 Jul 2008, 20:01
Ideology: Trotskyism
Philosophized
Post 08 Feb 2011, 18:31
Oh yeah? Are the couples in hollywood romances heterosexual or homosexual? Do commercials portray homosexual couples or heterosexual ones? Are there homosexuals in soaps?

The simple fact that homosexuality is still thought of as something "special" that deserves to be mentioned ("THIS GUY IS GAY!") proves what I said.
"Don't know why i'm still surprised with this shit anyway." - Loz
Soviet cogitations: 455
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Nov 2010, 01:24
Komsomol
Post 09 Feb 2011, 12:34
Yes yes and yes , homosexuality and its lifestyle has become (or been made) very popular
We need to make revolution so our kids wont grow up in corporate prostitution
Sky was the limit. Then the communists came!
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