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Why was homosexuality relegalised in the USSR?

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Loz
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Soviet cogitations: 11879
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 06 Dec 2009, 23:17
Philosophized
Post 18 Nov 2014, 22:05
Let's see some of the cases from 2013 and 2014:

В Удмуртии 42-летнего гея убил любопытный гомофоб - "из интереса"
Школьник расстрелял учителя географии в Москве, так как считал его геем
Жителя Буденновска убили, потому что тот "заступился" за друга гея
Студент из Нижнего Новгорода перерезал горло за "непристойное предложение"
23-летний гей зверски убит в Волгограде - "задел чувства" в День Победы 2013, truly a Vatnik moment:
Quote:
Кроме того мучители унизили свою жертву, искромсав его половые органы и изнасиловав. В частности еще до мучительной смерти погибшего ему извращенным способом трижды ввели пустые бутылки из-под пива. По горячим следам были задержаны трое местных жителей. Один из них дал признательные показания и рассказал, что поводом для глумления над погибшим, а потом и зверской расправой послужила его гомосексуальная ориентация и "вызывающее поведение", которое задело патриотические чувства отмечавших праздник 9-е мая...

This is an english-speaking forum, please provide a translation. - Che B.






Quote:
Actually, violence against the gay is much stronger in Brazil or Venezuela than Russia. And homosexuality is a crime in India, as pointed out by their Supreme Court.
Not to even mention how the gay are treated in Saudi Arabia...

What does that have to do with anything? Shit, that's the exact "and you're lynching negroes" mentality.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 19 Mar 2005, 20:08
Embalmed
Post 18 Nov 2014, 22:14
Well, a total of 5 over 2 years, at least one of which seems to have weird people who are into rape and dismemberment that likely don't have anything to do with homophobia (correct me if I'm wrong, but you are implying that Russians are natural rapists and dismemberers here). I guess it's not the best, though of course we are not allowed to compare Russia to any other country in your little worldview so as an isolated case in a world where no other countries exist when Russia is being discussed, I would say it could do better but it seems far from a systematic problem that you should scream bloody murder over.
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"Bleh, i don't even know what i'm arguing for. What a stupid rant. Disregard what i wrote." - Loz
"Every time is gyros time" - Stalinista
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 19 Mar 2005, 20:08
Embalmed
Post 19 Nov 2014, 08:22
And I guess a separate post on why pro-gay activism in Russia in its current form is doomed to fail.

America:

Gay activist: America, you are such a perfect land of democracy and freedom, please let the gays share in this freedom fest too?
American: Sure thing, bud. (Though about half our states will disagree.)

Europe:

Gay activist: Europe, you are such a perfect place of progress and tolerance, please let the gays also be part of this loving landscape?
European: Naturlich!

Russia:

Gay activist: Russia, you fuc­­king suck, you damn orks, how can you even think about not letting us have the same rights as in Europe? You will never be a land of freedom or tolerance, but give us the same rights as them or everyone will make fun of you and your Olympics!
Russian: Poshel na huj, pidor.

How do you think Americans or Europeans would react if they had the same attitude thrown at them as Russians do? That's right, it only appeals to schizophrenics who hate their country and whom the government actively promotes in various media to discredit the opposition.
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"Bleh, i don't even know what i'm arguing for. What a stupid rant. Disregard what i wrote." - Loz
"Every time is gyros time" - Stalinista
Loz
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Soviet cogitations: 11879
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 06 Dec 2009, 23:17
Philosophized
Post 19 Nov 2014, 19:53
Cool caricature yo.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 16 Jul 2014, 21:53
Ideology: Other Leftist
Pioneer
Post 23 Nov 2014, 15:04
A nice movie about homosexuality in the socialist countries is Before the Night Falls, an autobiography from Reinaldo Arenas.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 29 Sep 2011, 13:51
Party Member
Post 26 Nov 2014, 09:22
Che Burashka wrote:
Can we stop using Wikipedia as "the source of all knowledge"? thank you...

And by the way, why do you discuss all this stuff here [Cafe Mir], when we've got a perfectly good thread about it??


I've decided to continue the discussion here:

Yeqon wrote:
Guy Burgess was a raging homosexual who lived an openly gay lifestyle when he defected to the USSR. This was in 1951. Stalin knew full well that he was gay and yet still approved of his defecting to Moscow, as well as agreeing to Guy being gifted a large luxury apartment in the heart of Moscow in recognition of his immeasurable contributions to the communist cause. He would later have drunken orgies in this very same apartment yet he is still recognized as a hero of the communist cause.

My mother also told me that she had a few male homosexual friends in the 70s so all this talk about a government sponsored persecution of gay people sounds dubious to me.

I'm not saying that gay people didn't have it harder back then as only homosexuals who lived in the USSR could give a definitive answer to that question;

but one thing I'm sure of is try as you may, it is impossible to eradicate a perfectly normal sexual orientation from society, which is exactly what being gay is and that's already been accepted by the majority of the scientific community.


Loz wrote:
Right, because homosexuality wasn't in fact a crime according to Soviet law.


Yeqon wrote:
The personal use of narcotics is still illegal but that hasn't stopped me from having my fill. I don't see what the big deal is. When I was a teenager I used to say the same things as what you're implying; I would idealistically and vehemently argue against the injustices of modern laws that denied to the masses their biological rights to do what it was they desired to do with their bodies whether it be through the use of drugs or sexually. By the time I was 21 though I realized it was much easier to simply say "Yes! Yes! Yes!" to all the socially conservative people out there while going back and doing whatever it was I wanted to do in the first place when they've all got their backs turned.

Just because a law is passed for political gains upon which the legislative party may not even believe in doesn't mean that it will be enforced or taken seriously. So a bullshit law concerning gay people was passed in order to appeal to a more conservative society; so what? It certainly doesn't mean that it had any real effect. It also certainly is not a worthy aspect upon which accurate objective judgments about soviet society can be made.

Remember when prohibition laws were passed in 1920s America? Nobody gave a flying frag and drank away regardless and the same thing is going on today with a whole lot of made up laws all over the world; laws with the sole purpose of political promotion and social appeasement rather than actually trying to achieve something practical within the society it's implemented in.

There were gay people in the USSR regardless of whatever laws were passed and if there are any documents proving that people were arrested and prosecuted for homosexuality in the USSR I'd like to see them, otherwise I don't even know what we're talking about here.


Loz wrote:
Except it was enforced and ruined people's lives.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_history_in_Russia

Except [prohibition laws] ruined countless lives and caused numerous deaths from polluted moonshine and mafia wars.

You might as well start defending American McCarthyist laws against communists in public service because these aren't enforced except for some of the worst shitholes in the South, or those against race mixing and what not.

I don't even see what you're trying to say here.




Loz wrote:
Except it was enforced and ruined people's lives.


—Sereisky, Great Soviet Encyclopedia, 1930, p. 593 wrote:
Soviet legislation does not recognize so-called crimes against morality. Our laws proceed from the principle of protection of society and therefore countenance punishment only in those instances when juveniles and minors are the objects of homosexual interest ... while recognizing the incorrectness of homosexual development ... our society combines prophylactic and other therapeutic measures with all the necessary conditions for making the conflicts that afflict homosexuals as painless as possible and for resolving their typical estrangement from society within the collective.


The law against sex with minors was included in the post 1933 prohibition of male homosexuality while a law against lesbians was never enacted. The wikipedia article by the way does not include the exact wording of Article 121 in Russian, which makes debating whether the law was enacted against homosexuality as opposed to only pedophilia impossible. There were openly lesbian members in the communist party as well as in the soviet military. There are no documents proving that anyone was arrested for adult male homosexuality, only for pedophilia upon which the penalty was 5 years then and is still 5 years now.

Stalin's favourite Soviet film director Sergei Eisenstein was also a homosexual. That however did not stop him from being given numerous Soviet awards including the Stalin State Prize for his artistic achievements.

It's also worth mention that the Wikipedia article cites the Official Website of the American Department of Homeland Security as their source of information for their piece on homophobia in the USSR/Russia. Well isn't that typical?

Was the law enacted in 1933 vague? Yes.

Was it backwards and inaccurate, subject to exploitation? Yes.

Is homophobia in the USSR being exaggerated by anti-Soviet communists and by borderline racist Russophobes? Most definitely yes.

I lived in Kiev and visited gay bars occasionally and I didn't notice homophobia that was exceptionally obvious and singular to Slavic people alone. There are 3 gay night clubs that are a 15~20 minute walk from the Maidan alone. Yes cross-dressing gay men were beaten up occasionally when out in the open; and yes I believe Eastern Slavs are less open to homosexual activity than say people in Amsterdam, but there definitely isn't any governmental or national offensive against gay people there. Most people couldn't care less one way or the other.

By the way, none of the Russian members on this site have expressed any homophobic feelings whereas there are Westerners and Americans who have numerous times recently.

Quote:
Except it ruined countless lives and caused numerous deaths from polluted moonshine and mafia wars.


Which is exactly my point. Just because laws are enacted doesn't mean they'll be effective or have any considerable weight.

Quote:
You might as well start defending American McCarthyist laws against communists in public service because these aren't enforced except for some of the worst shitholes in the South, or those against race mixing and what not.


What the frag?
You misunderstood me. I wasn't defending any laws be it prohibition or whatnot. Still it's funny you mention him, since it was Senator Joseph McCarthy who used accusations of homosexuality as a smear tactic in his anti-communist crusade. So I don't know why the USSR is being singled out when you had openly homophobic elected representatives of the American government in power.

Senator Joseph McCarthy wrote:
If you want to be against McCarthy, boys, you've got to be either a Communist or a cocksucker!


Senator Kenneth Wherry similarly attempted to invoke a connection between homosexuality and anti-nationalism.

Senator Kenneth Wherry wrote:
You can't hardly separate homosexuals from subversives.

But look Lerner, we're both Americans, aren't we? I say, let's get these fellows [closeted gay men in government positions] out of the government.
Image


My laws shall act more pleasure than command,
And with my prick I'll govern all the land.
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