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Do you believe in global warming?

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Do people accelerate global warming?

Yes
13
87%
No
1
7%
Other
1
7%
 
Total votes : 15
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User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 1418
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 29 Sep 2011, 13:51
Ideology: Democratic Socialism
Party Member
Post 18 Jan 2020, 20:20
Okay, so the discussion is out there. The fires are blazing in Australia. Droughts unusual in their scale and scope have been reported in recent years. Greta Thunberg is Time Magazine’s Person of the Year. Electric cars are being sold in ever larger numbers that even Uber is using them. Plant based diets and eco-living are becoming fashionable.

In Kiev it’s past mid-January and it hasn’t snowed yet whereby in 2016 it started in late October; some people haven’t even turned on the heaters yet. That’s never happened in the decade I’ve lived here.

Most of the people I know believe in temperature cycles thus in global warming and cooling, yet not all believe that humanity is in some way impacting this natural cycle.

What do you think? Is this an issue that worries you and how? Should socialists be incorporating green politics into their thinking and message?

I’d like to hear some of your thoughts before I give my take on the subject.
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The great art of life is sensation, to feel that you exist, even in pain.
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Soviet cogitations: 3871
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 12 Jun 2006, 02:14
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Politburo
Post 18 Jan 2020, 21:43
Yes. It's a fact.
You can discuss which percent is due to human activity, but it's happening nonetheless. Green policies should be taken, when it doesn't affect the development of poorer nations.
Nuclear, hydro and geothermal power are the way to go. Solar and wind are good for small consumption. Carbon based fuels are still going to be needed for a good amount of time, but we must start to transition.


"Where Argentina goes, Latin America will go".
Leonid Brezhnev

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Soviet cogitations: 4501
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Oct 2004, 22:04
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Resident Soviet
Post 19 Jan 2020, 01:39
I'm not a scienceologer, but lately I've started looking into theories of global warming of veteran Soviet scientists, including the adiabatic theory of the greenhouse effect of Sorokhtin et al, which suggests that in the long term, Earth is actually experiencing cooling, not warming. I took an interest in this because Sergei Kapitsa, a physicist and popularizer of science back in Soviet days, stated in multiple interviews toward the end of his life that he didn't believe in the climate crisis as promoted by the current scientific consensus. Kapitsa's brother Andrei spent decades exploring Antarctica, and similarly concluded that global warming was a far more complex, natural process extending across thousands or even millions of years than those who talk about short-term man-made CO2 emissions would have us believe.

Previously, I thought that all the 'global warming is a hoax' scientists and activists were paid for by the coal and oil lobbies. That may all be true, but I would have a hard time accepting that respected and principled old school Soviet academics like Kapitsa could be bought off, particularly since they had nothing to gain from doing so, and only their reputations to lose.

That said, I don't know anything of the real science behind either side's claims to definitively say anything. The only thing I can say for sure is that humanity must start colonizing other planets and solar systems, and as fast as possible, because being stuck on Earth, vulnerable to climate change, asteroids, and powerful and unknown forces inside the planet or the Sun puts all our species' collective eggs in one basket.
"The thing about capitalism is that it sounds awful on paper and is horrendous in practice. Communism sounds wonderful on paper and when it was put into practice it was done pretty well for what they had to work with." -MiG
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Soviet cogitations: 250
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 12 Jun 2011, 15:14
Ideology: Other Leftist
Komsomol
Post 22 Jan 2020, 02:55
soviet78 wrote:
I'm not a scienceologer, but lately I've started looking into theories of global warming of veteran Soviet scientists, including the adiabatic theory of the greenhouse effect of Sorokhtin et al, which suggests that in the long term, Earth is actually experiencing cooling, not warming. I took an interest in this because Sergei Kapitsa, a physicist and popularizer of science back in Soviet days, stated in multiple interviews toward the end of his life that he didn't believe in the climate crisis as promoted by the current scientific consensus. Kapitsa's brother Andrei spent decades exploring Antarctica, and similarly concluded that global warming was a far more complex, natural process extending across thousands or even millions of years than those who talk about short-term man-made CO2 emissions would have us believe.

Previously, I thought that all the 'global warming is a hoax' scientists and activists were paid for by the coal and oil lobbies. That may all be true, but I would have a hard time accepting that respected and principled old school Soviet academics like Kapitsa could be bought off, particularly since they had nothing to gain from doing so, and only their reputations to lose.

That said, I don't know anything of the real science behind either side's claims to definitively say anything. The only thing I can say for sure is that humanity must start colonizing other planets and solar systems, and as fast as possible, because being stuck on Earth, vulnerable to climate change, asteroids, and powerful and unknown forces inside the planet or the Sun puts all our species' collective eggs in one basket.

Here is a rebuttal I have found to the idea that CO2 levels have risen in response to climate change , rather than the other way around . https://skepticalscience.com/settled-science-humans-are-raising-co2-levels.html And Russia has already been experiencing the effects of global warming . https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2019/national/climate-environment/climate-change-siberia/ Although getting the populace to accept the evidence , and take appropriate action has been proving difficult . https://m.dw.com/en/opinion-russia-frozen-on-climate-change/a-49499528 I do agree though that space colonization is key to humankind's survival . Specifically I feel that terraforming will prove crucial . Stephen Hawking , among others , has thought so . https://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2017/06/20/human-race-doomed-do-not-colonise-moon-mars-says-stephen-hawking/ https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3sn9GOv6OZQ ( for a look of what this might look like
)
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Soviet cogitations: 1418
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 29 Sep 2011, 13:51
Ideology: Democratic Socialism
Party Member
Post 22 Jan 2020, 11:26
For me it's simpler. I have heard and read arguments from proponents on both sides of the fence, but I simply don't think that something as important as the environment is something to be trifled with, upon which the survival of the human race depends on. I think it prudent to err on the side of caution, rather than take no action in reluctance of sacrificing a few comforts here and there. I also don't see a reason not to take all the scientists that have come forth seriously.

That said, it seems that nuclear energy really is the way forward, which according to many eco-activists is actually the greenest form of producing energy, far greener than even solar and wind when taking all the factors into account. It is both flattering and saddening to know that it is on the left that most green parties lie.

There's also the issue of environmental migrants and climate refugees. If the developed world doesn't at least try to get it self together in terms of carbon emissions, then they shouldn't complain when a horde of new migrants come stampeding down the line.

The colonization of space is the only long term solution to the ultimate survival of the human race, either that or an artificial intelligence so advanced as to be endowed with the 'soul' of man.
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The great art of life is sensation, to feel that you exist, even in pain.
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 250
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 12 Jun 2011, 15:14
Ideology: Other Leftist
Komsomol
Post 22 Jan 2020, 18:17
The problem with nuclear energy is its byproduct waste , and radiation , think Chernobyl , or Fukushima . https://greentumble.com/7-reasons-why-nuclear-waste-is-dangerous/ Which is why such groups as the political pop singing group Seifuku Kojo Iinkai , whom have had relations with the Japanese Communist Party { https://www.jcp-kyoto.jp/activity_and_policy/activity_and_policy-1123/ , https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Singing_Voice_of_Japan#Relationship_with_the_Japanese_Communist_Party } , are against new nuclear power plants . https://www.japantimes.co.jp/culture/2011/09/08/music/seifuku-kojo-iinkai-ditch-the-idol-prattle-for-an-antinuke-message/#.XiiC0SMo7bU
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Soviet cogitations: 4501
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Oct 2004, 22:04
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Resident Soviet
Post 22 Jan 2020, 21:56
Jason24 wrote:
Here is a rebuttal I have found to the idea that CO2 levels have risen in response to climate change , rather than the other way around. - Snip


Thanks for all the neat links. You don't have to tell me about the strange behaviour of the climate in Russia. Much like Ukraine's, our winter this year has been a complete disappointment.

Regarding getting Russians to accept global warming, I think far, far more important is for everyone to realize just how terrible the devastation of forests in Siberia by the Chinese has been, and to take some kind of action. I've heard rumours that shipments of strip-cut Siberian timber are already being sabotaged and set on fire it's been so bad. Siberia's forests are one of the two 'lungs' of the world, and like Brazil's rainforest, the other lung, they've been getting depleted. I think it's symbolically important that a forest ranger service was created by the Bolsheviks immediately after the revolution, and forest looters were threatened with stiff penalties including death. Meanwhile in capitalist Russia these Chinese barbarians and their Russian partners in business and government are looting the place like there's no tomorrow.

Russia's total carbon footprint is estimated at about 5 percent of that of the world. In Soviet times we contributed about 15 percent of the world's total industrial production, and a corresponding amount of emissions. But now we're just 3 percent and continuing to fall. So I think a consensus on global warming can be formed without us. Far more important is for the US and China to get their act together on that front (Fellow Comrade told me a few years ago that China was major strides in that direction, and he used to be one of our resident experts on China). Also, I hate how in the US everyone always compares China's emissions to America's, even though most of the useless crap China makes is sold to foreign markets, including the US (https://www.theonion.com/chinese-factor ... 1819567885).
"The thing about capitalism is that it sounds awful on paper and is horrendous in practice. Communism sounds wonderful on paper and when it was put into practice it was done pretty well for what they had to work with." -MiG
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User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 1418
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 29 Sep 2011, 13:51
Ideology: Democratic Socialism
Party Member
Post 24 Feb 2020, 20:28
I’ve heard that using thorium can solve a lot of the side effects of nuclear energy. In any case, I still don’t see an alternative for the long term survival of our species beyond nuclear energy, at least not at the moment.

It has been the warmest winter on record this year. I call this year the ‘year without a winter’. It hasn’t really snowed, and temperatures were almost always above freezing. No ice whatsoever; the first time I’ve ever seen the lakes and rivers not freeze over.

However, some of the older Russian poets the likes of Pushkin have written about winters without snow, so here’s to hoping that this has been one of them rarer but not extraordinarily so occurrences.
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The great art of life is sensation, to feel that you exist, even in pain.
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