Soviet-Empire.com U.S.S.R. and communism historical discussion.
[ Active ]
[ Login ]
Log-in to remove these advertisements.

Do you support Bachar al-Assad (3)

POST REPLY

Do you support Bachar al-Assad?

Yes
19
68%
No
4
14%
Other
5
18%
 
Total votes : 28
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 2293
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Aug 2010, 14:21
Party Bureaucrat
Post 06 Mar 2016, 01:41
After 5 years of War, Bachar is still fighting for the independance of Syria. I open this new poll to see the evolution of Soviet-Empire members' opinion on this matter. The second poll was opened in July 2013 and the first one in July 2012. Between the first and the second poll, there was a clear shift in favour of President Assad.

First poll:
viewtopic.php?f=123&t=52711
Second poll:
viewtopic.php?f=123&t=53471

For my part I still support Bachar against his enemies. Bachar has been accused of different war crimes such as targeting of civilian population, large-scale torture, indulgence towards the Islamic State. Some of these accusations are probably false or exaggerated, but we all know that Bachar is no angel. Yet, he represents the unity of a secular Syria, and that's a struggle worth fighting for.
Image

"Fishing is part of agriculture" Gred
"Loz, you are like me" Yami
"I am one of the better read Marxists on this site" Gred
Soviet cogitations: 12389
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 18 Apr 2010, 04:44
Ideology: None
Philosophized
Post 06 Mar 2016, 02:14
If Bachar represents a solid bulwark against Islamist lunacy and a secure chip in the policy of containment for the region then, fine, I'm all for him.

As for Bachar himself being any sort of angel or devil, I can only say that he seems to be the inevitable strongman that a largely uneducated and undemocratic population ultimately produces. No better or worse than Saddam or Muammar, except that he seems to have learned his lesson not to act out on an international basis.
Miss Strangelove: "You feed giants laxatives so goblins can mine their poop before the gnomes get to it."
lev
[+-]
Soviet cogitations: 256
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 02 Jan 2016, 14:43
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Komsomol
Post 06 Mar 2016, 03:12
Only a popular president like Bachar can lead the Syrians and elevate them from poverty. He also has the talent of persuasion unlike other opposition leaders. Without him, Syria would remain in shambles. (Who started all of these in the first place? The armed rebels and ISIS!!)
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 14444
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Sep 2006, 22:05
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Philosophized
Post 08 Mar 2016, 08:50
Voted for Bashar in every one of these.

VICTORY TO THE SAA!
Image
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 2293
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Aug 2010, 14:21
Party Bureaucrat
Post 08 Mar 2016, 09:39
Who voted no? Denounce yourself!
Image

"Fishing is part of agriculture" Gred
"Loz, you are like me" Yami
"I am one of the better read Marxists on this site" Gred
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 208
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 30 May 2009, 19:37
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Pioneer
Post 09 Mar 2016, 08:01
Victory for Bashar al-Assad! Down with ISIS and every lackeys of US imperialism!
"Stalin brought us up — on loyalty to the people, He inspired us to labor and to heroism!" Soviet Anthem 1944.
Let's work hard and do valorous deed!
Soviet cogitations: 12389
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 18 Apr 2010, 04:44
Ideology: None
Philosophized
Post 09 Mar 2016, 16:21
Let him be a lackey of Chinese/Russian imperialism instead.

More importantly, let ISIS be defeated, and the status quo of 1991 restored.

If that's the best the Middle East can hope for, it's their fault, not ours.
Miss Strangelove: "You feed giants laxatives so goblins can mine their poop before the gnomes get to it."
lev
[+-]
Soviet cogitations: 256
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 02 Jan 2016, 14:43
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Komsomol
Post 10 Mar 2016, 01:44
Retaliation for blood debts incurred by the rebels is not a blood debt. But beheading Syrian army soldiers by the hundreds and parading them in the town plaza is indeed a blood debt. In conclusion, Bachar al-Assad has no blood debts.
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 10737
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 21 Dec 2004, 23:53
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Philosophized
Post 20 Mar 2016, 04:40
Poll 1: Yes
Poll 2: Yes
Poll 3: Yes
Image

"By what standard of morality can the violence used by a slave to break his chains be considered the same as the violence of a slave master?" - Walter Rodney
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 2293
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Aug 2010, 14:21
Party Bureaucrat
Post 25 Mar 2016, 15:45
The Syrian Arab Army has taken back Palmyra. Long live the SAA!
Image

"Fishing is part of agriculture" Gred
"Loz, you are like me" Yami
"I am one of the better read Marxists on this site" Gred
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 4381
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Oct 2004, 22:04
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Resident Soviet
Post 25 Mar 2016, 20:45
Support for Bashar is support for secular and progressive Arab nationalism against what everyone in the entire world who doesn't have their head up their ass admits is barbarism and the lowest form of imperialism.

Thanks for doing this poll again OP-B, and for linking to the older ones.
"The thing about capitalism is that it sounds awful on paper and is horrendous in practice. Communism sounds wonderful on paper and when it was put into practice it was done pretty well for what they had to work with." -MiG
[+-]
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 1277
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 29 Sep 2011, 13:51
Party Member
Post 26 Mar 2016, 21:19
Yes, although I doubt my objectivity on the matter. Too many lives taken and destroyed. I certainly did not expect to witness human suffering on such a mass scale in my lifetime. After watching a local Syrian live news report on how the people of Homs are adapting to life amidst the ruins, whereby a little Syrian girl was quiveringly making a speech about bravery while trying to unsuccessfully choke back her tears, her youth and innocence effectively taken away from her, I've become quite ashamed of being a Homo Sapien. Little girls are supposed to talk about unicorns, not about having courage in the face of death. I can't even think about the Syrian situation anymore without seeing her wan face, which otherwise would have been quite radiant and beautiful had she been smiling. I've lost my ability to objectively rationalize the Syrian conflict and have stopped discussing it altogether. The fact that I have direct personal interests involved in this ghastly affair makes my judgement even less reliable.

So even though I say yes to the Ba'ath regime, I say it somewhat reluctantly.
Image


My laws shall act more pleasure than command,
And with my prick I'll govern all the land.
lev
[+-]
Soviet cogitations: 256
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 02 Jan 2016, 14:43
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Komsomol
Post 27 Mar 2016, 05:03
Who started all of these in the first place? Majority of voters elected an Assad government. It was a legitimate government. De jure! If I were asked what is the remedy? Pray to Allah, that peace reign in the land of Syria because too much evil is rampant in that country.
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 4381
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Oct 2004, 22:04
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Resident Soviet
Post 27 Mar 2016, 12:44
Yeqon, there is nothing Assad or the Bath regime could have done differently; if they had given in the country would be a Libya Part II, but worse; there is evil in the world, and I agree with you that it has demonstrated itself in Syria in brutal ways unseen anywhere else in the world in several decades (I'm thinking Afghanistan and Angola in the 80s). I know it's incorrect for a communist to do so, but I see Syrians today as a holy people who are fighting a sacred, almost metaphysical war against global forces of darkness and destruction, in the face of radical Islamism and its various perverted sponsors (the Saudis, the Qataris, Western imperialism).

As an aside, each time I think of Syria I can't help but recall Gorbachev's betrayal of the global socialist and national liberation movement. From the conflicts in Syria, Libya and Afghanistan to North Korea, which had a famine because of the loss of trade ties with the socialist bloc, its depressing to think about how many hundreds of millions of lives were ruined or even lost due to him. Damn him and all of his cohorts.
"The thing about capitalism is that it sounds awful on paper and is horrendous in practice. Communism sounds wonderful on paper and when it was put into practice it was done pretty well for what they had to work with." -MiG
lev
[+-]
Soviet cogitations: 256
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 02 Jan 2016, 14:43
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Komsomol
Post 28 Mar 2016, 11:01
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUtIN1MVIqI

"I am no friend, bride or groom to the West. But I have to protect people."- Putin.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKNzT78VENY
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 4
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 27 Mar 2016, 23:51
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
New Comrade (Say hi & be nice to me!)
Post 28 Mar 2016, 14:43
Since I have not seen anyone replying to this thread with some sourced form of criticism, here goes:

The government under Bachar al-Assad has a track record of civilian deaths by the thousands (as we should all probably know), banning and arresting communists (Abdel Aziz al Khayyer and Jihad Asa’ad Muhammad for example), and it has both served as a proxy for US imperialism [1] [2] [3] (without mentioning Syria's co-operation with the US during the Gulf War) and Russian imperialism [1] [2]. It's also heavily complacent with Zionism and far from being in favour of Palestine's right for self-determination [1] [2] [3].

As Communists, we should always stand with the working classes of a country and at least be able to recognise that Bachar al-Assad is, simply put, not the best answer to address Syria's socio-economic and political issues in a near future. However, under the current war conditions that Syria is currently experiencing, it would be silly and catastrophic to push on for the full termination of this government, especially when you consider the threat they are currently facing that is ISIL/DAESH (whatever name you attribute them).

So, right now, I think the best course of action is very critically support at least Syria's action towards self-defence and reclaiming lost territory. Once it's stable and the threat of reactionary insurgent groups is no longer, it will be necessary to fully endorse and advocate for the removal of Bachar al-Assad and give full voice to the workers and the communist/marxist organisations that represent them.
"There is no middle course: principles triumph, they do not "compromise.""

-- J.V. Stalin
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 2293
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Aug 2010, 14:21
Party Bureaucrat
Post 28 Mar 2016, 14:51
I totally agree.
Image

"Fishing is part of agriculture" Gred
"Loz, you are like me" Yami
"I am one of the better read Marxists on this site" Gred
[+-]
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 1277
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 29 Sep 2011, 13:51
Party Member
Post 28 Mar 2016, 18:31
soviet78 wrote:
Yeqon, there is nothing Assad or the Bath regime could have done differently.
Perhaps not since the start of the conflict, but the regime is reaping many mistakes they had sown over the decades; mistakes not only committed within Syria but all over the Levant as well.

Nevertheless in life we're forced to choose between the options in front of us, and not between reality and fantasy; which is unfortunate because it often means having to get your hands dirty, and is exactly why I feel uncomfortable supporting a side in such a bloody morass, made even worse by the fact that I'd probably be the last person here not to support Bashar when push comes to shove due to personal interests.

Thank you Nastya for your post. I especially like how you include links to your sources of information. However, if no one beats me to it, I'll try to respond in kind with my critique within the week after I read all your links, some of which at first glance seem to be amateurish analyses of Levantine modern history, and since I myself lived for ten years under Syrian occupation.

But to keep things exciting for the moment I'll leave ya'll with a taste of what's to come in my response if I indeed do come around to it, in the true style of raw Levantine politics.

OP-Bagration wrote:
The Syrian Arab Army has taken back Palmyra. Long live the SAA!
Battle for Palmyra Victory Tribute
Image


My laws shall act more pleasure than command,
And with my prick I'll govern all the land.
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 4381
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Oct 2004, 22:04
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Resident Soviet
Post 28 Mar 2016, 19:09
I'll wait for Yeqon's response, since this is definitely his forte, but with regard to this sentiment:

TheCollectiveBunker wrote:
Once it's stable and the threat of reactionary insurgent groups is no longer, it will be necessary to fully endorse and advocate for the removal of Bachar al-Assad and give full voice to the workers and the communist/marxist organisations that represent them.


If Assad makes it, I will support the position taken by Syria's communist and socialist parties (including both CP factions, the Arab Socialist Movement, the Arab Socialist Union, the Democratic Socialist Unionist Party) all of which are part of the National Progressive Front, and which, incidentally, supported Assad's candidacy in the June 2014 presidential election.

I've heard US and EU politicians' categorical 'Assad must go' rhetoric enough times that I would never presume to tell Syria's Left what they can and must do as far as their own government is concerned, especially since, if he makes it, Assad will become a powerful symbol of Arab resistance against Gulf Monarchy and Western machinations, just like Nasser did in his own time.

Also, I don't see how offering the US help in fighting Daesh makes Syria a 'proxy for US imperialism' - more like a rational attempt to get the US to stop funding 'moderate' jihadists killing Syrians; also, linking to Tartus as an example of 'Russian imperialism' is pretty weak. How exactly is Russia taking advantage of Syria in an imperialist or neocolonialist manner?
"The thing about capitalism is that it sounds awful on paper and is horrendous in practice. Communism sounds wonderful on paper and when it was put into practice it was done pretty well for what they had to work with." -MiG
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 208
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 30 May 2009, 19:37
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Pioneer
Post 29 Mar 2016, 13:13
TheCollectiveBunker wrote:
So, right now, I think the best course of action is very critically support at least Syria's action towards self-defence and reclaiming lost territory. Once it's stable and the threat of reactionary insurgent groups is no longer, it will be necessary to fully endorse and advocate for the removal of Bachar al-Assad and give full voice to the workers and the communist/marxist organisations that represent them.


I think it wouldn't be that easy because after the war, Bashar al-Assad will become a great symbol of Syrian people just like Mustafa Kemal Ataturk of Turkey. And the working class movement is not strong enough to became the ruler if Bashar al-Assad goes away. The void in political power will be filled by lackeys of NATO and EU. So the primary things to do after the war is to reorganize working class movement, to raise the class consiousness of proletariat, so they recognize that proletariat is an independent class, which has their own political goals and not a tail of another classes.

At least, we must have a strong working class movement like the PAME of KKE in order to take hold of political power.
"Stalin brought us up — on loyalty to the people, He inspired us to labor and to heroism!" Soviet Anthem 1944.
Let's work hard and do valorous deed!
Alternative Display:
Mobile view
More Forums: The History Forum. The UK Politics Forum.
© 2000- Soviet-Empire.com. Privacy.