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UK European Union referendum

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Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

Remain a member of the EU
5
25%
Leave the EU
12
60%
Don't know/other
3
15%
 
Total votes : 20
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Oct 2004, 22:04
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Resident Soviet
Post 28 Jun 2016, 22:18
That's cool MissStrangelove - we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Also sorry about The New Observer - I just linked the first result I saw after googling what I remembered to be a refreshing speech by Le Pen at Oxford. Had no idea it was a racist rag.
"The thing about capitalism is that it sounds awful on paper and is horrendous in practice. Communism sounds wonderful on paper and when it was put into practice it was done pretty well for what they had to work with." -MiG
Loz
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 06 Dec 2009, 23:17
Philosophized
Post 30 Jun 2016, 06:14
So you think a "refreshing" speech by a literal neonazi LePen would be published in anything but a racist rag?

Ease up on watching Russian state TV my man.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 29 Sep 2011, 13:51
Party Member
Post 03 Jul 2016, 19:24
No matter the argument, sometimes all you need is change to really shake things up and get things going, and a Brexit definitely changes the current order of things; and so at the end of the day I'd like to think it's preferable to just stagnating within a quagmire of European imperialism.

A Brexit may lead to negative consequences for the proletariat within and without in the short run, but in the long term, breaking up an imperialist union of capitalist states can't be all that bad for communists.

Either way, now that it's said and done, socialists should be working to figure out how all this could be used to our advantage, instead of conjuring up scenarios whereby a Bremain would have been more beneficial to working class citizens.

They say that still waters run deep, well I say that still waters don't run at all!
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And with my prick I'll govern all the land.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 04 Jun 2015, 20:48
Pioneer
Post 12 Jul 2016, 22:21
Yeqon wrote:
No matter the argument, sometimes all you need is change to really shake things up and get things going, and a Brexit definitely changes the current order of things; and so at the end of the day I'd like to think it's preferable to just stagnating within a quagmire of European imperialism.

A Brexit may lead to negative consequences for the proletariat within and without in the short run, but in the long term, breaking up an imperialist union of capitalist states can't be all that bad for communists.

Either way, now that it's said and done, socialists should be working to figure out how all this could be used to our advantage, instead of conjuring up scenarios whereby a Bremain would have been more beneficial to working class citizens.

They say that still waters run deep, well I say that still waters don't run at all!

But is really the EU the heart of imperialism? Isn't Britain and the City of London, the true heart of imperialism more dangerous unrestrained?
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 22 Oct 2004, 15:15
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Politburo
Post 16 Jul 2016, 09:12
I'm a bit late to the party, but perhaps people will appreciate the different statements by communist parties across Europe on the occasion of Brexit. Considering that many leftist and progressive people are really wondering what to think, since the blows against the EU are mainly coming from a reactionary agenda. An overview of these statements can be found on the excellent International Communist Press site: http://icp.sol.org.tr/europe/statements ... it-updated
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 14 Jun 2013, 09:08
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Pioneer
Post 19 Jul 2016, 03:25
Quote:
But is really the EU the heart of imperialism? Isn't Britain and the City of London, the true heart of imperialism more dangerous unrestrained?


http://www.tuaeuc.org/


TUAEUC Secretary Doug Nicholls described the EU as a dying beast lashing out in weakness. It represents failed national capitalisms, which huddle together for warmth, but in reality are on a life support machine. He likened the real motor behind the EU, the "Round Table" of industrialists, to pirates robbing the people ever more greedily, but as their treasure chests rise so their ships begin to sink.
Written perhaps a decade ago I liked the quote and kept it

http://www.cpbml.org.uk/news/fight-eu-t ... ion-leader
Trade Unionists Against the EU spokesman Brian Denny said that the continuing imperialist behaviour and attitude towards the third world exposed the moral bankruptcy of the EU.

Denny said, “The Common Agricultural Policy, which eats up half the EU budget, has destroyed Africa’s ability to feed itself by dumping heavily-subsidised food onto some of the most fragile economies in the world.
http://www.ituc-africa.org/ITUC-Africa- ... -EPAs.html
The world is riven by class — not race, gender, age or disability. There is only one human race, and any ideas that promote divisions between us do the work of capitalism.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 14 Jun 2013, 09:08
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Pioneer
Post 20 Jul 2016, 20:53
https://shar.es/1lMVkI GRTV Feature Interview with Michel Chossudovsky, produced by James Corbett



The British people’s decision to leave the European Union shocked the political establishment across Europe and around the globe.

Now, Professor Michel Chossudovsky exposes the EU as the imperial project that it always was, and the growing movement against EU domination as an anti-imperial movement of world historical importance.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/redirect?tag=sovietempire&path=subst/home/home.html/review/R2ARGI25GSZS1T They attack wages, working conditions and trade unions. The free movement of labour aids this attack, as Chossudovsky notes, "Manpower exports, ... from both Mexico and the Caribbean, serve the purpose of depressing the wages paid to American and Canadian workers, as well as undermining the role of trade unions."
The world is riven by class — not race, gender, age or disability. There is only one human race, and any ideas that promote divisions between us do the work of capitalism.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 14 Jun 2013, 09:08
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Post 08 Apr 2017, 17:11
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Article 50: A day to celebrate

Quote:
A statement from the Communist Party of Britain Marxist-Leninist

Today the government gave formal notice that Britain will depart from the EU once and for all time. On 23 June 2016 we declared our intention to Leave. Now Article 50 has been invoked and the clock is ticking.

We are throwing off the shackles of the misnamed European Union, which seeks only to dictate and deny sovereignty. By March 2019 we must be out.

This day is truly one to celebrate.

In 1975 the British people did not believe we could run our own affairs. The referendum vote then was by more than 2 to 1 to throw in our lot with the European Economic Community, to ask it to please manage Britain for us (actually, for its own interests). Last June this woeful decision was finally reversed.

The people have shown we want a sovereign Britain. We have declared confidence in ourselves to determine the country’s future without any instruction from Brussels or Berlin.

We know that we can and must control our economy, our laws, our borders, and we expect the government to act accordingly. There can be no backsliding, no fudges. Only full independence will do. Push aside any who still wish to block it.

The blockers are fewer and fewer but they are dangerous enemies of the people and the country. They want to hand us back to foreign control. All who desire a successful Britain must unite to see this through, engage in the discussion and planning for the future, and act to carry it out.
The world is riven by class — not race, gender, age or disability. There is only one human race, and any ideas that promote divisions between us do the work of capitalism.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 14 Jun 2013, 09:08
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Pioneer
Post 08 Apr 2017, 17:32
Doug Nicholls, Chair of TUAEU, has commented on the importance of triggering Article 50 today:
Triggering Article 50 should be welcomed by all working people in Britain.
It begins the end of the domination of our government by people we never elected.
We need to get out of the EU quickly and cleanly and recognise that the EU is very much built on membership of the Single Market with all of its restrictions on us and anti worker anti trade union policies throughout the continent.
Britain, having been one of the top three net contributors for so long, could argue the EU owes us fortunes, but as the EU's accounts have never been audited we wont see much of that. Certainly our negotiators should dismiss out of hand any EU attempts to charge us for the pleasure of leaving the lowest growth economic area of the world with 23 million unemployed workers.
As internationalists we look forward to helping to rebuild a full employment economy in Britain, with vibrant manufacturing, public services, renewed agriculture and control over our fishing grounds.
Trade unionists should be at the forefront of determining a new form of government and transformed economy for all."

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The world is riven by class — not race, gender, age or disability. There is only one human race, and any ideas that promote divisions between us do the work of capitalism.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 04 Aug 2004, 20:49
Ideology: Democratic Socialism
Embalmed
Post 10 May 2017, 01:10
Ever since Article 50 was triggered and the subsequent call for a General Election, how can you possibly believe that either are in the interests of working people?

Assuming May wins, as the favourite...are you an accelerationist?
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"Phil Spector is haunting Europe" -Dr. Karl H. Marx
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 14 Jun 2013, 09:08
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Pioneer
Post 11 May 2017, 16:50
I think Mr Fawzi Ibrahim spells it out. https://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/a-a ... RSA1tR96t8

Quote:
Take one of the most popular of Labour’s policies — renationalising the railways; it falls foul of the rules of the single market. Similarly with procurement, which John McDonnell made an important plank of Labour’s re-invigoration of British industry. Under single market rules, procurement must be open to all in the EU. Neither can there be any subsidies to local industries since under the single market rules, capital free to move anywhere in pursuit of higher profits regardless of the effect that has on local communities and national economies.


Quote:
Labour cannot implement its own economic and industrial programme if Britain remains a member of the single market upon leaving the EU. Workers are not mugs. They know that and any attempt to tell them otherwise would backfire.



https://www.cpbml.org.uk/news/push-blockers-aside

Quote:
The people have shown we want a sovereign Britain. We have declared confidence in ourselves to determine the country’s future without any instruction from Brussels or Berlin.

We know that we can and must control our economy, our laws, our borders, and we expect the government to act accordingly. There can be no backsliding, no fudges. Only full independence will do. Push aside any who still wish to block it.


http://brexitcentral.com/norwegians-now ... omic-area/

''More than 150 countries outside the single market sell goods to the EU. None of them have to change their legislation or transfer sovereignty to sell their goods to the EU. This only applies to Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein and it is this submission to EU law which makes the EEA agreement so intolerable. 25 years with the EEA has been more than enough.''
The world is riven by class — not race, gender, age or disability. There is only one human race, and any ideas that promote divisions between us do the work of capitalism.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 14 Jun 2013, 09:08
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Pioneer
Post 13 May 2017, 17:50
Wrecking

Theresa May has said for months that Britain will not stay under the Court’s jurisdiction. The EU demand that its jurisdiction be maintained is a wrecking demand; it is at odds with their claim to want a clean break.

Our democratic majority decision to leave the EU cost it a tenth of its income. We subsidised the EU, and now its leaders are angry because their countries will have to pay more or get less, or both. Our decision was also a severe blow to their project of “ever closer union”. To the EU, leave does not mean leave. They will do all they can to stop us leaving.

https://www.cpbml.org.uk/news/no-eu-dod ... guidelines
The world is riven by class — not race, gender, age or disability. There is only one human race, and any ideas that promote divisions between us do the work of capitalism.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 29 Apr 2017, 04:47
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
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Post 16 May 2017, 06:15
dodger wrote:
As internationalists we look forward to helping to rebuild a full employment economy in Britain, with vibrant manufacturing, public services, renewed agriculture and control over our fishing grounds. Trade unionists should be at the forefront of determining a new form of government and transformed economy for all.


And, as internationalists, you should do whatever you can to help other European countries to withdraw from the fascistic E.U. system, so that working people in these other countries can free themselves and take back their countries.

The E.U., as I understand it, is a dictatorship of the bankers. It needs to be replaced with a different kind of union, one based on working-class solidarity and cooperation.

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☭ The NATO-bloc's $1T/year war racket sells death & destruction, obscenely repackaged as "Freedom & Democracy".

☭ Bright ideals are used to hide hideous crimes.

☭ Real freedom is something to live for, not something to kill for.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 06 Dec 2009, 23:17
Philosophized
Post 16 May 2017, 09:41
Quote:
fascistic E.U. system

That's just nonsense sloganeering. If i heard someone describe the EU as fascist(ic) IRL i'd laugh.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 14 Jun 2013, 09:08
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Post 16 May 2017, 10:02
‘A foreign body’

Then he talked about mistaken ideas that compare leaving the EU with leaving a company during a strike instead of staying to fight. The comparison doesn’t work, he said. “The European Union is not our company…it is a foreign body.” It's not so much a vote to leave the EU – “…it would be more accurate to say that it is a vote to expel the European Union”.

Brexit, he said, “would set an example for all of us in the other European countries to, in turn, expel the Union”

Internationalist rally held in Paris on 28 May, at which speakers from France, Germany, Italy, Greece and Belgium expressed their support for Britain leaving the European Union.
https://www.cpbml.org.uk/sites/default/ ... /paris.pdf
The world is riven by class — not race, gender, age or disability. There is only one human race, and any ideas that promote divisions between us do the work of capitalism.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 29 Apr 2017, 04:47
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Post 16 May 2017, 21:29
Quote:
fascistic E.U. system
Loz wrote:
That's just nonsense sloganeering. If i heard someone describe the EU as fascist(ic) IRL i'd laugh.


How would you characterize the E.U., then? Why is the E.U. so cozy with the regime in Kiev? Why does it reject self-determination for Crimea? Why does it support Kiev's genocidal crusade against the people of the Donbass region? Why does it go along with all of the wars of the U.S. Empire? Where does it stand on Izrael? In Syria, does it side with the Syrian people? or with the Islamic terrorists?

How would you characterize the E.U. if you lived in one of the countries victimized by the Troika's "Austerity" scam? Is the E.U. democratic? -- or a globalist tyranny with a "Democracy" facade? Does the E.U. serve the people or the global bankers?
☭ The NATO-bloc's $1T/year war racket sells death & destruction, obscenely repackaged as "Freedom & Democracy".

☭ Bright ideals are used to hide hideous crimes.

☭ Real freedom is something to live for, not something to kill for.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 14 Jun 2013, 09:08
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Pioneer
Post 22 May 2017, 11:19
https://euobserver.com/institutional/135227

Quote:
Revolving doors
Nine of 26 commissioners that left office in 2014 have since taken up positions in organisations with links to big business, according to Corporate Observatory Europe, a transparency campaign group in Brussels.

In one example, former antitrust and digital agenda boss Neelie Kroes took up a job in May with Uber, a tech firm that she vocally supported while in office.
The world is riven by class — not race, gender, age or disability. There is only one human race, and any ideas that promote divisions between us do the work of capitalism.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 14 Jun 2013, 09:08
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Post 22 May 2017, 23:34
https://www.cpbml.org.uk/news/eu-delusions-french-style

Similarly Macron’s domestic polices look doomed to repeat past failures. These include revival of his failed plans to “liberalise” the labour market when economics minister in 2015-16. He wants to remove both restrictions on the length of the working week and legislation protecting workers rights and has plans to cut 120,000 public service posts.

All those measures were deeply unpopular with French workers when first mooted. Even so 37 per cent the electorate voted for Macron and so for privatisation and greater EU integration. They will have to deal with the consequences. In true EU style Macron has said he will, if necessary, implement his policies by decree if he fails to win parliamentary approval. It will be a tough fight in which we can only wish French workers all strength.
The world is riven by class — not race, gender, age or disability. There is only one human race, and any ideas that promote divisions between us do the work of capitalism.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 14 Jun 2013, 09:08
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Post 30 Jul 2017, 03:57
https://www.cpbml.org.uk/news/five-foun ... dependence

Image



Britain will need strength, clarity and obduracy if it is to progress towards independence over the next two years. This cannot be left to politicians. The working class itself needs to take responsibility for control and integrity of our land, language, law, money and economy.

Control over our land and waters. Our borders are not forever closed as the doom merchants would have it, but we wish to control who comes in. We must control the size and composition of our population. It’s the national equivalent of contraception, it’s family planning.

If it’s in the national interest for someone to enter, it should be considered – whether a research scientist or seasonal agricultural worker in East Anglia – but it must be registered and controlled.

Britain must be able to defend itself against external threats. That means armed forces and weapons, including nuclear weapons. But our defensive capability must be independent.

Control over our currency and our finances. One of the first things any conquering empire does is impose a single currency on its subject states. We’ve always resisted this, but stood by as other controls were let go. The EU seeks to lure our financial institutions out of London – an empty threat.

Control over our law. Not Sharia, not EU, not NATO, but British law. The precedent is already set and we see the danger, whether Sharia divorce courts in parts of Britain, EU fishing quotas, NATO troop movements. We can’t compromise on this and serve many masters: one rule for all in Britain.

Control over our economy. This is primary, the foundation on which everything else rests. Health and education are therefore secondary.

An economy is about importing as well as exporting. It’s about manufacturing industry and service industry. It’s about a balanced energy supply to service the needs of industry and of consumers. It’s about prioritising what we need to be self reliant in.

Control of our language. English is the international language of trade, of industry, of diplomacy. It is even the chief means of communication within the EU, despite Juncker’s drunken efforts to the contrary. But it is the only national language of Britain, and we don’t always treat it with the respect it deserves. This is not about “text speak”, but about the cultural significance of language in binding people together.

To speak and communicate effectively in English should be a requirement for all here, not least those in a professional capacity where one wrong word or number can mean great danger.

Brexit should be a massive opportunity for us. But we must change too. There needs to be a move from opposition mentality to government mentality. The working class must take control.
The world is riven by class — not race, gender, age or disability. There is only one human race, and any ideas that promote divisions between us do the work of capitalism.
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