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Do you support Western intervention against ISIS?

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Do you support Western intervention against ISIS?

Yes
16
41%
No
18
46%
Other/Don't know
5
13%
 
Total votes : 39
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Soviet cogitations: 2293
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Aug 2010, 14:21
Party Bureaucrat
Post 23 Aug 2014, 19:19
Quote:
What they're trying to conceal is that US proxies have been funding and arming all these moderate groups

And French. This is now official as Hollande admitted it a few days ago but showed no sign of repentance.
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"Fishing is part of agriculture" Gred
"Loz, you are like me" Yami
"I am one of the better read Marxists on this site" Gred
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 29 Sep 2011, 13:51
Party Member
Post 24 Aug 2014, 23:35
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My laws shall act more pleasure than command,
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 21 Sep 2013, 03:08
Ideology: Trotskyism
Party Member
Post 30 Aug 2014, 19:33
Yeqon wrote:

I'm really liking what I've seen of the Iraqi Red Army. I mean: 1) they're communist, 2) they're powerful enough to shove ISIS out of part of Baghdad and have been rapidly gaining support after that.

Though if ISIS blows up from the inside, which is looking more and more likely now that they've alienated anyone who isn't a fanatical Salafist (including every Shi'ite Islamist and many Sunni ones too), we'll probably have some kind of Afghanistan-style civil war between the weaker paramilitaries. The Red Army, various Iran-funded Shi'ite groups, Saudi petrodollar-backed toned-down ISIS remnants...
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 29 Sep 2011, 13:51
Party Member
Post 30 Aug 2014, 20:46
On a more personal note regarding ISIS, a relative of mine from Lebanon called me today asking me where the weapons I had posted pictures of earlier in the Guns thread were, and that there is now a call for Christians in the north of Lebanon to arm themselves.

What happened was that a statue of a catholic saint was desecrated in one of our mountain villages the previous night only to be followed by a black Jihadi ISIS flag that was found hanging in the center of town the next morning.

Nobody is sure who's responsible, some are even speculating that it was done by fanatic right-wing phalangists who thirst for another civil war with Muslims.

Anyway the residents of the town had the flag taken down and publicly burnt. Now one of the Sunni clerics from the northern Sunni city of tripoli is vowing revenge for having burnt the banner with the name of god inscribed upon it.

So now there's a call to arms. A minor escalation I'll admit but an escalation nonetheless.

ISIS truly is an unbelievable phenomenon. Their flags hang in Boko Haram held territory in North-eastern Nigeria and they hang all across the Middle East.

It's amazing that such a backwards thinking people can be so disciplined and organized. Say what you want about religion but it has a power, a uniting force.

I wish communists all around the world would learn a thing or two from our common enemy.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 05 Feb 2014, 00:36
Komsomol
Post 01 Sep 2014, 03:36
Obviously a communist can't support the intervention of Western imperialists.

However, one can accept their guns and money which they assume come with conditions and use them for one's own ends.

Did not Lenin accept a German train ride? And look how happy on his throne the Kaiser was 16 months later.... and the Soc-Dem traitors, too.

I also agree with Yeqon: now isn't the time for sectarian division but a united front to smash the islamofascist snackbars
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 29 Sep 2011, 13:51
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Post 01 Sep 2014, 03:59
somewhat wrote:
I also agree with Yeqon: now isn't the time for sectarian division but a united front to smash the islamofascist snackbars


Tell that to the two Russians who are brawling it out in the "What are you watching right now?" thread!
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 15 Nov 2012, 01:18
Komsomol
Post 01 Sep 2014, 11:35
I'm sure me and Kirvo could unite against the ISIS dzhigits if we had to
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 21 Dec 2004, 23:53
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Philosophized
Post 23 Sep 2014, 04:40
Syria: US begins air strikes on Islamic State targets

Next up, USA defeats ISIS and we live happily ever after with absolutely no negative consequences.
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"By what standard of morality can the violence used by a slave to break his chains be considered the same as the violence of a slave master?" - Walter Rodney
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 29 Sep 2011, 13:51
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Post 23 Sep 2014, 21:10
I'd sure like to see the number on the cheque signed by the Saudi royal family who are paying for the pentagon's services. Suddenly the gulf states have realised what a blunder they have caused by creating a frankenstein monster in the form of ISIL. Now the American military will kill a few more Muslims, cash in their cheques which will then result in a new generation of misguided Muslim fanatics who will make it their life's priority to kill as much American citizens as they can and so the story goes full circle.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 29 Sep 2011, 13:51
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Post 24 Sep 2014, 21:57
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 19 Mar 2005, 20:08
Embalmed
Post 27 Sep 2014, 05:08
Unhappy with the airstrikes also hitting them, moderate democratic rebels could be joining ISIS:

Quote:
U.S.-led strikes pressure al Qaeda's Syria group to join with Islamic State

By Mariam Karouny

BEIRUT Fri Sep 26, 2014 2:48pm EDT

(Reuters) - Al Qaeda's affiliate in Syria, the Nusra Front, is facing mounting pressure from its own members to reconcile with its rival Islamic State and confront a common enemy after U.S.-led air strikes hit both groups this week.

But that move would require pledging loyalty to Islamic State, which has declared a caliphate in territory it controls in Iraq and Syria, which would effectively put an end to the Nusra Front, fighters in the group say.

Nusra, long one of the most effective forces fighting Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, was weakened this year by battles with Islamic State, an al Qaeda splinter group that routinely employs ruthless methods such as beheadings and mass executions.

The two share the same ideology and rigid Islamic beliefs, but fell out during a power struggle that pitted Islamic State head Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi against al Qaeda chief Ayman Zawahri and Nusra Front leader Abu Mohammad al-Golani.

But U.S.-led air and missile strikes, which have hit Nusra as well as Islamic State bases in Syria, have angered many Nusra members who say the West and its allies have joined forces in a "crusader" campaign against Islam.

Sources close to Islamic State said some Nusra fighters were joining them after the strikes and there was a growing sense among many that it was time to put their differences aside.

"There are hardline voices inside Nusra who are pushing for reconciliation with Islamic State," a source close to Nusra's leadership told Reuters, though he doubted it would happen.

"I know Golani. He would never reconcile with Islamic State. If he ever does it, it would be in a direct order from the leadership, and that is Zawahri himself."

However, one Islamic State fighter said he believed there was an "80 percent chance that the brothers of Nusra will join the State".

The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, a Britain-based monitoring group, said on Friday over 200 fighters had joined Islamic State in the northern Aleppo area, many from the Nusra Front, since U.S. President Barack Obama said he was prepared to strike the group in Syria.

In an audio message posted on militant forums on Thursday, a senior al Qaeda figure warned Muslims against joining Islamic State and called on fighters in Syria to "rescue the ship of jihad, and reach it before it deviates from its course."

The message from Muhammad bin Mahmoud Rabie al-Bahtiyti told fighters in Syria to avoid infighting and fanaticism, the SITE monitoring service said.

He said they should build a caliphate avoiding "oppression, infidel-branding the Muslims, killing the monotheists and dispersing the rank of the mujahideen," SITE said.


NO TRUST

Even before the air strikes, Nusra was facing difficulties and was losing fighters to Islamic State, which is seen as more organized and determined to impose Islamic rule.

"This goes without saying, this is a crusader war that includes all infidel nations against the Islamic State," said Nusra commander Abu Mussab al-Makdessi in a voice message posted in jihadi forums online in response to a question from an Islamist about the group's reaction to the strikes.

"Regardless of what happened between us, they remain our brothers, and the ideological bond between us is stronger than anything. We are ready to fight by their side ... our blood is their blood."

One former Nusra fighter inside Syria said the air strikes had strengthened Islamic State's position even further.

"Nusra is in a very difficult situation. I think now it should just announce the end of itself. Zawahri has to be brave," he told Reuters.

"It is no longer like the old days. He needs to understand this. This is a new era with a caliph," he said.

Yet sources from and close to both sides said it would be difficult for the two groups to work together without merging - and with Nusra in a weaker position, that would effectively mean being subsumed by Islamic State.

Such a decision should be taken by Zawahri himself. Sources say he should give a speech outlining al Qaeda's position on the attacks soon.

"Golani does not trust Baghdadi, and he doesn't like his politics and agenda, he sees it as distorted and astray," the source close to the Nusra leadership said.

But there were figures inside Nusra who were seen as more extreme that wanted to make peace with Islamic State, he said, naming top Nusra cleric Sheikh Sami al-Aridi, who is also close to Golani, as a particularly strong proponent of reconciliation.

If that does happen, it would be an alliance and not a merger, the source said, adding merger would be impossible since Baghdadi, who has declared himself leader of all the world's Muslims, would want Zawahri to pledge allegiance to him.

But even if Zawahri only orders Nusra to fight alongside Islamic State, it is likely to accelerate any hemorrhaging of influence from him to Baghdadi.

Nusra, which has been trying with allies to remove its name from the U.N. terrorist list, was taken by surprise when U.S.-led coalition warplanes bombed several of its positions in Idlib province.

Several commanders are believed to have been killed in the strikes, including Kuwaiti-born Mohsin al-Fadhli - also known as Abu Asmaa al-Jazrawi - reputedly a former member of Osama bin Laden's inner circle, and whom United State officials call the head of the "Khorasan group".

Khorasan is the Islamic term for an area including parts of Pakistan and Afghanistan, where al Qaeda's main council is believed to be in hiding.


ATTACKS ON LEADERS

The source close to the Nusra leadership said the Khorasan group was led by veterans from Afghanistan.

"It is a very small group - dozens of fighters only. It is more symbolic because it is composed of veterans who came from Afghanistan, and they are all wanted by Washington. They directly follow the Qaeda leadership," he said.

Another Nusra source said Fadhli and al-Golani had fallen out recently but had continued to cooperate.

The strikes on the "Khorasan group" also showed that the United States knew more than it should, he said. This could embarrass Nusra leaders by leading fighters to suspect they were infiltrated. Nusra leaders have reportedly gone underground and changed locations since the strikes.

"The precision of the raids on these positions shows clearly that the Americans have intelligence members among the Nusra fighters. It is very clear to us now," the Nusra source said.

Islamic State fighters and sympathizers have vowed to respond to the strikes. In particular they accused Saudi Arabia of being the mastermind behind the attacks.

But jihadis also say the group is in no hurry and is waiting to see what the coalition plans to do. The group's leaders went underground even before the strikes, it has evacuated most of its buildings in its stronghold of Raqqa province, and its fighters are rarely seen on the streets.

"The response will be in every country that took part in bombing Muslims and their state," said an Islamic State fighter in Syria.

"Masks have fallen. In our eyes, it fell a long time ago, but now Muslims across the world saw it."


Source

I guess it could be worse, but as the airstrikes seem to have evoked mass support for ISIS in rebel areas, it probably will lead to changes in alliances. Also they got (some of) the clowns behind the underwear bomber and other crap, but the stupid safety rules and full-body scanners are probably here to stay.
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"Bleh, i don't even know what i'm arguing for. What a stupid rant. Disregard what i wrote." - Loz
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 09 May 2008, 14:59
Ideology: Other Leftist
Forum Commissar
Post 27 Sep 2014, 14:23
This situation looks awfully familiar. Almost like it happened 40 years ago and made us fight an unwinnable war in the jungle.

I guess what they say is true: generals are experts in fighting the last war.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 06 Dec 2009, 23:17
Philosophized
Post 27 Sep 2014, 14:35
Quote:
This situation looks awfully familiar. Almost like it happened 40 years ago and made us fight an unwinnable war in the jungle.

I think two-three Marine divisions and more serious air support would be enough to send the whole of ISIS to hell. They have nowhere to hide.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Aug 2010, 14:21
Party Bureaucrat
Post 27 Sep 2014, 15:09
I believe that they have a lot of places to hide, that's the problem. They have sope support amongst the population.
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"Fishing is part of agriculture" Gred
"Loz, you are like me" Yami
"I am one of the better read Marxists on this site" Gred
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 19 Mar 2005, 20:08
Embalmed
Post 27 Sep 2014, 15:34
Loz wrote:
I think two-three Marine divisions and more serious air support would be enough to send the whole of ISIS to hell. They have nowhere to hide.


Do you ever bother to read anything as simple as Wikipedia before writing the stupid shit that you write on this forum? Can you start by reading about the USMC, its organizational structure and mission, as well as about ISIS and its history to understand why sending 2/3 of the US naval infantry/expeditionary force that is not meant for occupations to deal with an organization that has over 7 years experience as an insurgent group in the Iraq war is a bad idea?
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"Bleh, i don't even know what i'm arguing for. What a stupid rant. Disregard what i wrote." - Loz
"Every time is gyros time" - Stalinista
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 06 Dec 2009, 23:17
Philosophized
Post 27 Sep 2014, 16:36
Who cares? Send in the US forces to wipe their heavy equipment and most of the troops and then the SAA and even the Iraqis could take over.
An ISIS with half its forces wouldn't be such a threat.
As for the local population, they have a choice. I certainly wouldn't want to be in the shoes of those pro-ISIS tribes when the angry Kurds or whoever return.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Aug 2010, 14:21
Party Bureaucrat
Post 27 Sep 2014, 18:15
They don't have support in the Kurdish towns, however in Deir ez-zor and Raqqa, they have some obviously. It's said that they have 10 000 men. So if you want to take back their towns, you would need 30 000 men at least, and more than that to occupy the territory. Nasrallah believes that those US airstrikes are a danger, but that this danger can be turned into an opportunity.
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"Fishing is part of agriculture" Gred
"Loz, you are like me" Yami
"I am one of the better read Marxists on this site" Gred
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 19 Mar 2005, 20:08
Embalmed
Post 27 Sep 2014, 20:20
Loz wrote:
Who cares? Send in the US forces to wipe their heavy equipment and most of the troops and then the SAA and even the Iraqis could take over.
An ISIS with half its forces wouldn't be such a threat.
As for the local population, they have a choice. I certainly wouldn't want to be in the shoes of those pro-ISIS tribes when the angry Kurds or whoever return.


Yeah I just wanted to be mean to you because it's funny.


At this point, the SAA and ISIS still don't have enough points of contact to really go head-to-head as there's still a lot of snackbars in the way, as well as in the south around Daraa. I doubt that things will get easier if al-Nusra and other short bus jihadi groups join with ISIS (their leadership would probably get purged in the best traditions of ISIS blockbusters to prevent another fitna).

As for their heavy equipment, from what I read (briefly) their skill at using it is still at the level of filling up a BMP with explosives and sending a suicide bomber to blow up a base. They've been getting their asses handed to them in conventional battles with the SAA that weren't surrounded air bases in Mennagh and Raqqa.

As for the Kurds, the YPG has been holding up a friendly neutrality with Assad where their leader does not want an independent Kurdistan, and the SAA patrols their major cities like Hasakah. The Syrian government in its statements also considers Kurds its citizens and has been bombing ISIS positions in the latter's offensive on Kobane, though that has not been very effective. It is possible that this phase of the conflict will push the YPG even closer together because by comparison, the armed opposition , that one Kurd group that sided with the FSA and local YPG promised to attack ISIS from the back as they have some territory nearby, but ended up just sitting on their ass the whole time.
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"Bleh, i don't even know what i'm arguing for. What a stupid rant. Disregard what i wrote." - Loz
"Every time is gyros time" - Stalinista
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 29 Sep 2011, 13:51
Party Member
Post 27 Sep 2014, 20:37
In my humble opinion I don't think ISIL is going anywhere for a very long time. I don't believe in a final military solution, neither do I believe in a single word that comes out of the Pentagon or western governments. They have proven time and time again that their word is worth absolutely nothing. Military intervention may help, but I wouldn't put my money on it. It has failed in the past and there is no reason to believe that it could work now.

Sometimes one has to admit the obvious, which is that the west fragged up big time in giving birth to the new era of Islamic Jihad, and by now there most probably is nothing anyone can do to make it disappear for at least another full generation, no matter how hard you try.

Any semblance of secular Arab unity and pride in the Levant died with Saddam Hussein, who alongside the Al-Assad family were the only ones capable of putting sectarianism in its place.

Say whatever you want about Saddam, but one day 50 years from now when my grandchildren (who would have by then completely lost and forgotten their Arab roots) ask me about my youth, I will tell them that there was a time when you could absolutely regardless of what religion you followed, get in a car and drive the entire span of the Levant from Beirut to Baghdad without a visa back and forth without ever allowing the slightest thought of being robbed, blown up, let alone beheaded cross your mind.

And when to their amazement they ask me how such stability, security, and secularism was possible in such a backwards thinking hellish place, I will tell them it was because great men like Saddam Hussein and Hafez Al-Assad ruled.

But then again let us hope for everybody's sake that I don't know what the frag I'm talking about.
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My laws shall act more pleasure than command,
And with my prick I'll govern all the land.
Loz
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 06 Dec 2009, 23:17
Philosophized
Post 28 Sep 2014, 12:57
Quote:
And when to their amazement they ask me how such stability, security, and secularism was possible in such a backwards thinking hellish place, I will tell them it was because great men like Saddam Hussein and Hafez Al-Assad ruled.

That's one for the annals.
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