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Will Putin send his tanks?

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Will Putin send his tanks?

Yes
13
27%
No
29
60%
I don't know
6
13%
 
Total votes : 48
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 5167
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 08 Nov 2007, 06:31
Embalmed
Post 15 Mar 2014, 01:14
You're not actually excited about the prospect of a war, right?
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Soviet cogitations: 417
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 15 Nov 2012, 01:18
Komsomol
Post 15 Mar 2014, 01:53
Actually got a draft notice a few days back (only found out today), even though it's illegal to send those out before the spring draft starts (april). Gonna make a shitstorm over this before I start dodging.
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Soviet cogitations: 2298
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Aug 2010, 14:21
Party Bureaucrat
Post 15 Mar 2014, 11:30
Quote:
You're not actually excited about the prospect of a war, right?

A war against Kiev, I am. A war against NATO? The West won't have the guts.
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"Fishing is part of agriculture" Gred
"Loz, you are like me" Yami
"I am one of the better read Marxists on this site" Gred
Soviet cogitations: 2408
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 01 Nov 2003, 13:17
Ideology: Other
Forum Commissar
Post 15 Mar 2014, 11:49
OP-Bagration wrote:
A war against Kiev, I am. A war against NATO? The West won't have the guts.


It would be a stupid move if NATO declared war on Russia over something as small as Crimea. The stakes are too high. A lot of Westerners would not want to fight in that war either.
Loz
[+-]
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Soviet cogitations: 11879
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 06 Dec 2009, 23:17
Philosophized
Post 15 Mar 2014, 14:44
Haha. Russia stands no chance against NATO or even Europe alone in a conventional war. Last time i checked Europe had more than 500 million people compared to Russia's 150, a lot bigger military budget and a much more professionalized army.
[+-]
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Soviet cogitations: 9407
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 19 Mar 2005, 20:08
Embalmed
Post 15 Mar 2014, 14:49
I'm not really sure about that

Shittypedia wrote:
According to a Russian military doctrine stated in 2010, nuclear weapons could be used by Russia "in response to the use of nuclear and other types of weapons of mass destruction against it or its allies, and also in case of aggression against Russia with the use of conventional weapons when the very existence of the state is threatened".[13]
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"Bleh, i don't even know what i'm arguing for. What a stupid rant. Disregard what i wrote." - Loz
"Every time is gyros time" - Stalinista
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Soviet cogitations: 2298
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Aug 2010, 14:21
Party Bureaucrat
Post 15 Mar 2014, 15:15
Quote:
Haha. Russia stands no chance against NATO or even Europe alone in a conventional war. Last time i checked Europe had more than 500 million people compared to Russia's 150, a lot bigger military budget and a much more professionalized army.

This is bullshit, there is no European army, no European defence policy. Russia has a total of 3,250,000. Germany 326,927, France 413,469, UK 387,570, Italy 347,667, UK 387,570, Poland 663,000. The rest is bullshit. So even all those countries can't match Russia's manpower. Their economies are in crisis and they are dependant on Russian gas. Russian citizens back Putin, western European citizens will never back their governments in a stupid nazi war.

Russia is close to Ukraine. Sending troops will cost nothing or almost. For NATO countries, sending troops there would cost a lot.

Russia has good and cheap material. Their AK74 cost less tan half of the price of a M4, same for their excellent S-300/400/500 missile systems compared to the Patriot, and are much more efficient. Their T-90s are good and cheap compared to the Leclerc.

Russia has support from the eastern populations of Ukraine, NATO has no support. The war of attrition is lost.


The war is already over.


#Ukraine borderGuardService informed that In #Kherson oblast 60 #russian servicemen landed from 4helicopters at1pm&another60landed at3:30pm
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/15/ukraine-crisis-fatal-clashes-as-tensions-rise-before-crimea-vote-live
Last edited by OP-Bagration on 15 Mar 2014, 15:35, edited 2 times in total.
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"Fishing is part of agriculture" Gred
"Loz, you are like me" Yami
"I am one of the better read Marxists on this site" Gred
Loz
[+-]
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 11879
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 06 Dec 2009, 23:17
Philosophized
Post 15 Mar 2014, 15:33
Quote:
This is bullshit, there is no European army, no European defence policy. Russia has a total of 3,250,000. Germany 326,927, France 413,469, UK 387,570, Italy 347,667, UK 387,570, Poland 663,000.

There's NATO and a basic framework of what could become an European army. And you're talking apples and oranges here. Europe doesn't have conscripts anymore but they could be mobilized anytime.

Quote:
Their economies are in crisis and they are dependant on Russian gas.

Russia's population would most likely starve to death if petrodollars and euros stopped coming in given how the country imports most of its food.

Quote:
Russian citizens back Putin, western European citizens will never back their governments in a stupid nazi war.

Maybe not but that doesn't change the fact that Russia would be frag*e anyway.

Quote:
Russia is close to Ukraine. Sending troops will cost nothing or almost. For NATO countries, sending troops there would cost a lot.

Huh? America alone has tens of thousands of soldiers in Europe. And why would sending troops from parts of Russia maybe thousands of kilometers away be cheaper than sending troops from Germany or France?

Quote:
Russia has support from the western populations of Ukraine, NATO has no support. The war of attrition is lost.

You mean eastern? And i'm sure NATO would be more than welcomed in the Western Ukraine, after all these guys gave flowers to the Nazis in 1941.
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Soviet cogitations: 2298
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Aug 2010, 14:21
Party Bureaucrat
Post 15 Mar 2014, 15:48
Quote:
There's NATO and a basic framework of what could become an European army. And you're talking apples and oranges here. Europe doesn't have conscripts anymore but they could be mobilized anytime.

Mobilize what? Wake up, almost all European countries have no more conscription. There is no more military service in France since 1996.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ea/Conscription_map_of_the_world.svg

Quote:
Russia's population would most likely starve to death if petrodollars and euros stopped coming in given how the country imports most of its food.

"Russia aims to lead food exports"
http://rt.com/business/russia-food-leader-goal-978/
"Russia really can feed the world, agrees Albert Davleev, President at Agrifood Strategies, but it needs to decide which types of food it should focus on."

You have other lies like this one?


Quote:
Huh? America alone has tens of thousands of soldiers in Europe. And why would sending troops from parts of Russia maybe thousands of kilometers away be cheaper than sending troops from Germany or France?

Because of logistics. Russia has its bases next to the border, they don't need to move anything. Other European countries would have to do so, even the US, they have only 66 000 troops in Europe, i.e. nothing.

The most important base with 10 000 US troops is Ramstein:

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Quote:
You mean eastern? And i'm sure NATO would be more than welcomed in the Western Ukraine, after all these guys gave flowers to the Nazis in 1941.

Yes I just edited that. Nato would be welcomed in Western Ukraine but they have no military infrastructure.
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"Fishing is part of agriculture" Gred
"Loz, you are like me" Yami
"I am one of the better read Marxists on this site" Gred
Loz
[+-]
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Soviet cogitations: 11879
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 06 Dec 2009, 23:17
Philosophized
Post 15 Mar 2014, 16:05
Quote:
Mobilize what?

Mobilize the reservists and maybe even some parts of the general population too.

Quote:
You have other lies like this one?

Lies? Are you saying that i'm lying that Russia imports most of its food?
What you're quoting is some RT ( lol, you might as well be quoting FoxNews here ) article about how Russia might and could do something, which obviously isn't the case now.

Quote:
Because of logistics. Russia has its bases next to the border, they don't need to move anything. Other European countries would have to do so, even the US, they have only 66 000 troops in Europe, i.e. nothing.

And NATO doesn't have bases in Poland and the Baltics and Romania? Berlin is almost closer to Kiev than Moscow is.

Quote:
Yes I just edited that. Nato would be welcomed in Western Ukraine but they have no military infrastructure.

I'm pretty sure that there's a shitload of military infrastructure left over from Soviet times, given how that was the western border of the USSR and given how a lot of Ukrainian army units are stationed there which directly contradicts what you're saying here:
https://russiamil.files.wordpress.com/2 ... .jpg?w=660
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Soviet cogitations: 2298
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Aug 2010, 14:21
Party Bureaucrat
Post 15 Mar 2014, 16:19
Quote:
Mobilize the reservists and maybe even some parts of the general population too.

The reservists? But the reserves were included in my figures.
The general population? Unless you want them to shoot at their own troops or kill themselves with their guns, or even revolt, you better not do that.

Quote:
Lies? Are you saying that i'm lying that Russia imports most of its food?
What you're quoting is some RT ( lol, you might as well be quoting FoxNews here ) article about how Russia might and could do something, which obviously isn't the case now.

Of course, a country could become the world leader in food exports even though it's still, according to you, importing "most of its food"?


Quote:
And NATO doesn't have bases in Poland and the Baltics and Romania? Berlin is almost closer to Kiev than Moscow is.

What do those bases represent? Those bases were built for their antimissile shield, not for air or ground support in Ukraine.
Berlin-Kiev distance: 1206km
Moscow-Kiev: 756km
Almost closer? Are you trying to trick me?


Quote:
I'm pretty sure that there's a shitload of military infrastructure left over from Soviet times, given how that was the western border of the USSR and given how a lot of Ukrainian army units are stationed there which directly contradicts what you're saying here:
http://russiamil.files.wordpress.com/20 ... u.jpg?w=66

Maybe they have some old Middle Ages castles that could be used as a base. But an old Soviet base is:

1 - Old.
2 - Probably not fit to NATO standards.
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"Fishing is part of agriculture" Gred
"Loz, you are like me" Yami
"I am one of the better read Marxists on this site" Gred
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 417
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 15 Nov 2012, 01:18
Komsomol
Post 15 Mar 2014, 16:49
Quote:
Russia's population would most likely starve to death if petrodollars and euros stopped coming in given how the country imports most of its food.


About a third of food is imported, which is less than most European countries. Personally I can't remember the last time I got imported food from the shop... Russia isn't particularly import-dependent, I remember the share of imports is about 40% of consumer goods and like 20% of GDP.

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Soviet cogitations: 2298
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Aug 2010, 14:21
Party Bureaucrat
Post 15 Mar 2014, 17:52
Importing food doesn't mean that you don't export food.


MOSCOW--Russia's grain exports between July 1, the beginning of the current marketing year, and Dec. 25, totaled 15.7 million metric tons, 21% more than in the corresponding period last year, the federal statistics service reported.

The total amount of exported grain included 12.157 million tons of wheat, 1.948 million tons of barley, 1.429 million tons of corn, and 165,000 tons of other minor grains.

The statistics service said grain exports during Dec. 1-Dec. 25 totaled 1.747 million tons. This was made up of 1.141 million tons of wheat, 127,000 tons of barley, 428,000 tons of corn and 51,000 tons of other minor grains.

The agriculture ministry expects this year's grain harvest to rise to 88-90 million tons in clean weight from 71.7 million tons in 2012 when crops were damaged by drought.

In the current marketing year, July 2013-June 2014, the ministry expects grain exports to rise to 18-20 million tons.

http://online.wsj.com/article/DN-CO-20131231-000611.html


Russian food exports on the increase
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sponsored/rbth/business/9199765/Russia-food-export-increase.html


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"Fishing is part of agriculture" Gred
"Loz, you are like me" Yami
"I am one of the better read Marxists on this site" Gred
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 417
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 15 Nov 2012, 01:18
Komsomol
Post 15 Mar 2014, 18:15
I've just shown that Russia does NOT import much food and you started raving on an irrelevant tangent
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Soviet cogitations: 2298
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Aug 2010, 14:21
Party Bureaucrat
Post 15 Mar 2014, 18:39
No, I was answering Loz's nonsense, not yours. Loz's point was that Russia is importing a lot of food and that in case of war people would be starving. So I said that importing food doesn't imply that you don't export food too. Thus saying that Russia is importing food isn't relevant.
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"Fishing is part of agriculture" Gred
"Loz, you are like me" Yami
"I am one of the better read Marxists on this site" Gred
Soviet cogitations: 1533
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Oct 2007, 15:55
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Party Member
Post 15 Mar 2014, 19:41
This might be a stupid question on my part, just curious, not an expert on military matters. Doesn't Russia have a mutual defense pact with a few of the post Soviet states?
We have beaten you to the moon, but you have beaten us in sausage making.- Nikita Khrushchev
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 2298
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Aug 2010, 14:21
Party Bureaucrat
Post 15 Mar 2014, 20:59
There is a treaty called the Collective Security Treaty Organization (CSTO):

Armenia
Belarus
Kazakhstan
Kyrgyzstan
Russia
Tajikistan


Those bastards are not even able to fund their Eufor invasion in Centrafrique, and they want to oppose Russia?
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"Fishing is part of agriculture" Gred
"Loz, you are like me" Yami
"I am one of the better read Marxists on this site" Gred
Soviet cogitations: 12389
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 18 Apr 2010, 04:44
Ideology: None
Philosophized
Post 15 Mar 2014, 22:26
OP-Bagration wrote:
Those bastards are not even able to fund their Eufor invasion in Centrafrique, and they want to oppose Russia?

You do know what usually happens when a country can't afford to pay to go to war? They go to war, and whoever loses gets the bill.

But for now, Putin's dream of restoring the Russian Empire for himself and his boyars will go on, unopposed.
Miss Strangelove: "You feed giants laxatives so goblins can mine their poop before the gnomes get to it."
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Soviet cogitations: 2298
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Aug 2010, 14:21
Party Bureaucrat
Post 15 Mar 2014, 22:57
Actually Putin has taken a big blow with this fascist coup. Sizing Crimea and even half of Ukraine wouldn't even compensate. I don't think you realize how Russia is threatened with this situation. They are threatened everywhere, in Syria (their base in Tarturs, and of course a long friendship with the country and many investments), now in Ukraine. They are threatened at the border with Georgia. The situation is bad, he will need more than that to restore the Russian Empire. He isn't doing that for an empire, he has no choice.
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"Fishing is part of agriculture" Gred
"Loz, you are like me" Yami
"I am one of the better read Marxists on this site" Gred
Soviet cogitations: 12389
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 18 Apr 2010, 04:44
Ideology: None
Philosophized
Post 15 Mar 2014, 23:38
Ukraine is full of raw energy, minerals, and grain. Reattaching it to the Russian Empire gives Putin a boost in the long run, if he can get away with it. I think he knows history well enough to play the game conservatively, a la Bismarck, and not grasp for too much too soon. If he forgets himself, as the Kaiser did, he can still play the nuke card to ward off an invasion, but his goose will be cooked, economically speaking.
Miss Strangelove: "You feed giants laxatives so goblins can mine their poop before the gnomes get to it."
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