Soviet cogitations: 6211
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 04 Aug 2004, 20:49 Ideology: Democratic Socialism Embalmed
The Yes campaign has dodged the more important questions of the debate, as far as I've been following it.
Salmond keeps claiming that Scotland would keep Sterling as its currency, pegged to and controlled by the Bank of England, while the government in Westminster is basically saying "no you won't". They'll have to join the Euro and enjoy exactly the same non-rights to alter interest rates to suit economic and fiscal conditions. Afaik, Scots receive more public spending per head than in the rest of the UK, as distributed from taxes from the entire union (not just from Scots themselves), and simply wouldn't be able to afford anything they're proposing, even with the North Sea oil, which apparently might have stocks far lower than Salmond's predictions. Quote: Someone here is telling porkies. "Oil is the bonus", oh come on Alex! All you've been banging on about for the last 5 years has been oil, oil and oil! ![]() "Phil Spector is haunting Europe" -Dr. Karl H. Marx No 14 wrote: You think a "No" means it all goes away? Norway had 5 referendums (referenda?) about joining the EU - though it only takes one to be "Yes" Erichs_Pastry_Chef wrote: That is my understanding also. As far as oil money goes, my understanding is that Mrs T used it to spend our way out of the bankruptcy of the 1970s. Oil money? 40 years of the NHS and other welfare, probably Canary Wharf too. Even if I'm mistaken, fracking tells me the boom is over and the oil fund ship has already sailed. Торжествуют марксизм и коммунизм
Marxism and communism triumph
I'm sure there will always be discussions about the future administrative divisions, but I think this particular form of "independence" will be dead in the water. The SNP are hardly going to go into the 2016 elections saying, "You know that referendum from two years ago? Let's do that again!" A serious discussion can be had without these false hopes.
Soviet cogitations: 6211
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 04 Aug 2004, 20:49 Ideology: Democratic Socialism Embalmed
It's worth stressing yet again that no major faction of the pro-independence campaign, including the major player (the SNP), could ever be construed as being socialist, not in a million years.
Perhaps the confusion comes over what a socialist is, as it's not exclusively about a social spending plan, which would honestly be quite nice to alleviate the bottom end of poverty in Scotland (and the UK as a whole), but it simply doesn't stop the country being beholden to foreign investment banks and unable to set their own socialist agenda on work, culture etc. Tomik wrote: You'd be right there, and the terrifying thing is that this Tory-led government is that they can totally honestly, without even hiding a sneer and a grin, claim that fracking is a "long-term" energy objective of the UK! 30 years is the total length of time that it may exist for at its longest, hardly long-term. Why would either the Tories or Salmond mention a "long-term" strategy if they are not completely committed to correcting the horrible mistakes of the past by renationalising the energy grid (and other utilities) so investment can actually take place in an energy infrastructure that is just about on its last legs? The simple fact that we're a small island in the North Atlantic means that, regardless of boundaries, a common energy policy should really be sought, though that would be impossible if both prospective governments are at loggerheads. ![]() "Phil Spector is haunting Europe" -Dr. Karl H. Marx
I know far less about this fracking thing than I should. I was reading the paper on Saturday and it said that the biggest party of the Dutch coalition (VVD), as well as one of the "loyal opposition" parties (D66), want to replace European dependence on Russian natural gas with American shale gas. And it went on to say that not only would that be far more expensive to transport, but that supplies may also be exhausted within 10 years!
Anyone know anything more about this? It's when I read this kind of stuff that I realise how much these Fraggers are grasping at straws, how illusory the "stability" of the system is, how short-term their thinking is, and how anarchic it really is.
Soviet cogitations: 6211
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 04 Aug 2004, 20:49 Ideology: Democratic Socialism Embalmed
The fracking debate is largely framed within the confines of the two polar extremes of "it causes cancer to everybody and poisons all water for the rest of time and causes earthquakes like Lisbon in 1755 omg!" and "it's a perfectly sensible long-term energy strategy that will save the world". I have yet to come across any kind of reasonable debate on the whole thing that isn't just a reiteration of these extremist positions.
I've not looked into it that much for these reasons, as I am pretty sure that 30 years of potential UK shale-gas fracking is not a sustainable policy by any means and shouldn't really be considered just because of that, and assuming there to be a grain of truth in the environmental impact of the whole undertaking, then wrecking parts of arable, pasture or buildable land just seems ridiculous. ![]() "Phil Spector is haunting Europe" -Dr. Karl H. Marx
So it's actually turning into a close race now. What, did independence suddenly become a good idea as soon as Salmond managed to win a debate against Alastair Darling? Rank madness.
Soviet cogitations: 2298
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Aug 2010, 14:21 Party Bureaucrat
Good result, I guess they made the good choice. However it would have been funny to see the Perfidious Albion losing a piece of itself.
![]() "Fishing is part of agriculture" Gred "Loz, you are like me" Yami "I am one of the better read Marxists on this site" Gred
For a independent socialist Scottish Republic.
Soviet cogitations: 33
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 17 Nov 2015, 22:40 Ideology: Maoist Pioneer
I believe in a United Socialist Ireland and a United Socialist Britain as neighbours. So, no I don't believe in an independent Scotland, it would just divide the British working-class.
Then why should the Irish and British working class be divided? Like either you agree with a Socialist UK or you agree with a Socialist Ireland, Socialist England, Socialist London, Socialist Scotland, Socialist Wales, and so on.
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If Scotland were to become independent, the rest of Britain would swing drastically to the right. It's mostly Scottish voters that keep the far-right from making gains in Britain.
But then again, I think Scots should do what is best for Scots. If that means leaving, then they should leave. But I doubt they will vote again any time soon.
Soviet cogitations: 716
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 04 Aug 2007, 23:25 Ideology: Marxism-Leninism Komsomol
Other: I support Scottish independence mainly as a way to dismantle and weaken the imperialist power that is the United Kingdom.
However, I have little expectations that Scotland would in any way be "socialist" after independence. ![]() "Communism is more about love for mankind than about politics." Me |
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