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Do you support Bachar al-Assad (2)

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Do you support Bachar al-Assad ?

Yes
46
69%
No
14
21%
Other
7
10%
 
Total votes : 67
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Soviet cogitations: 2294
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Aug 2010, 14:21
Party Bureaucrat
Post 18 Feb 2014, 00:20
You are a socialist so that's not surprising, I'm a communist. Supporting no one or not being able to take a clear political stance and to make the difference between the main enemy and the secondary enemy is like supporting both at the same time. As Bertolt Brecht used to say, if you don't take part in the struggle, you take part in the defeat. The question is rather: Why we communists should agree with someone who don't give a damn about Marxist notions such as imperialism but analyzes things through the bourgeois and idealistic prism of political regimes and forms? Doing nothing just because killing innocent people is bad is as much criminal as killing those persons directly. The Red Army was also killing "innocent people" in 1945, as was the US army when they bombed civilians in France an Germany, yet they were on the good side. Those who stood apart were on the wrong side. Same with Syria.
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"Fishing is part of agriculture" Gred
"Loz, you are like me" Yami
"I am one of the better read Marxists on this site" Gred
Soviet cogitations: 108
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 14 Feb 2014, 12:33
Pioneer
Post 18 Feb 2014, 11:45
Both are enemies. To argue that one is more imperialistic than the other is stupid, and to believe that defending the Syrian regime will in one way or another help socialism is stupid - how can they help you're cause? ... Isn't Syria imperialist? They supported the war against Iraq in the 1990s (with the US), they've invaded and occupied Lebanon, while killing a couple of their national leaders. This is a regime which didn't give the Kurds the right to citizenship because they were Kurds. Honestly, from a Marxist point of view, the Syrian regime is more exploitative than most, since the majority of private enterprises are owned either by people in the Assad family or close, they are repressive against people on the grounds of ethnicity (which goes against what Marxism stands for), they are imperialist, they support feudal-like practices (literally, dynastic succession), its ruled by a military clique with the Ba'ath Party in complete disarray (though, its making a comeback in large parts due to Hilal Hilal) .... Honestly, the argument that since "good" [RED ARMY} people killed "innocent people", its OK to kill "innocent people" is ridiculous. If you was one of those "innocent people" I don't think you would support such a position... Supporting Assad does not help the cause of socialism, it instead weakens it because in the eyes of the Arab people, its oppressive.. And having a regime commonly viewed as oppressive helps socialism how?

Secondly, every Marxist calls himself a socialist. WTF? Secondly, "Why we communists should agree with someone who don't give a damn about Marxist notions such as imperialism but analyzes things through the bourgeois and idealistic prism of political regimes and forms?" I'll be honest, from most of you're arguments here, you seem to know M-L oneliners, and not so much about Marxist theory and practice.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Dec 2013, 14:24
Ideology: Democratic Socialism
Unperson
Post 18 Feb 2014, 12:00
Thank you leftguy! I agree with you but arguing with the pro-Bachar brigade is like groundhog day.
You are correct when you say that Syria is just another imperalist power and yes Bachars forces are killing innocent people every day and torturing them to death. I always wondered why the Ba'ath parties called themselves socialist, I have struggled in vain vis-a-vis the works of Karl Marx to find out how they can justify using the term, but always came up blank.
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Soviet cogitations: 2294
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Aug 2010, 14:21
Party Bureaucrat
Post 18 Feb 2014, 12:38
The same sophistry has been repeated thousands of times on this board. Even Ayatollah Khomeini doesn't have so much dogmas in his repertoire, but we also have new dogmas and slanders.

Old dogmas:
- All forms of imperialism are the same: Ah! According to what? Did you found some holy scriptures saying that?
- Syria is imperialist: Wow. So basically threatening a foreign country, attacking it, making any kind of war, even preemptive wars, is imperialism. Everyone is imperialist! The marxist definition of imperialism as the stage of monopoly capitalism has vanished. Even the smallest nation making the smallest war can become as much imperialist as a country that has made dozens of wars in a few decades.

New slanders or dogmas:
- Kurds in Syria have no citizenship. Wow, now I discover that the Syrian kurdes are not Syrians. What are they? I don't know?
- The degree of exploitation is determined by who amongst the bourgeoisie supposedly possess the means of production, and not by the amount of generated surplus-value. Christian church 1 - Marx 0.
- They are "repressive on the ground of ethnicity." So basically the only persons in this civil war who defend national unity, who represent most of the Syrian minorities but also the Sunni majority are "repressive on the ground of ethnicity"? Yes, and Hitler was a communist, that's well-known.
- Every Marxist calls himself a socialist. No, only in the English-speaking world, because communism remained weak in most of those countries, unlike France, Russia or Italia. Therefore English speakers are usually unable to understand correctly the difference between communism and socialism.
- In the eyes of the Arab people Assad is oppressive: If this lie was true Bachar would have lost the war 2 years ago like Gaddafi did. In the eyes of many, Assad is oppressive against the takfiri, and they like that.
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"Fishing is part of agriculture" Gred
"Loz, you are like me" Yami
"I am one of the better read Marxists on this site" Gred
Soviet cogitations: 108
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 14 Feb 2014, 12:33
Pioneer
Post 18 Feb 2014, 12:42
Good

Michel Aflag, the co-founder of the Ba'ath Party (alongside Salah al-Din al-Bitar), coined the term Arab socialism, a moderate form of socialism, that is a socialism supporting private property, but which also had some Marxist characteristics (such as being vehemently critical capitalism, and capitalists in general).. However, the essence of Arab socialism was the unification of the Arab world into the Arab Nation, without socialism no Arab nation... However, after the Ba'ath Party seized power, a military clique led by the Military Committee (which was headed by Salah Jadid, and Hafiz al-Assad was a member) with a Marxist group, led by Yafiz al-Hafiz, at the 6th National Congress these group conceived of the concept; "An Arab way to socialism/Arab road to socialism", which was highly Marxist. The Military Committee-Marxist alliance broke up, when the Marxist group began campaigning for civilian party control over the military (while also opposing the traditional, Arab nationalists of Aflaq and Bitar). In 1965, the Military Committee entered a brief alliance with the tradionalists led by Aflaq, and expelled the Marxists from the party. Not long after, in 1966, the Military Committee launched a coup against the National Command, headed by Aflaq (the party leader). From 1966 to 1970 Salah Jadid rule, the (the guy in OP-Bagration's picture), the party became more authoritarian, and more statist (but the Soviet Union never conceived of Syria as an ally, with the Soviet press calling him a "hothead". When Assad took power, private ownership of the means of production in small and medium sized companies were reintroduced. Assad's regime can best be described as non-ideological; at the beginning of his term; an example, Assad was considering abolishing the Ba'ath Party all together at the start of his rule.

Short, the Socialist in the "Arab Socialist Ba'ath Party" does actually mean "Arab socialism", which means the goal of unifying the Arab world, but by 1963 it meant the Arab road to socialism (a highly Marxist concept), and now it means, well, whatever the Assad says it means.
Soviet cogitations: 108
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 14 Feb 2014, 12:33
Pioneer
Post 18 Feb 2014, 13:25
Quote:
All forms of imperialism are the same: Ah! According to what? Did you found some holy scriptures saying that?
- Syria is imperialist: Wow. So basically threatening a foreign country, attacking it, making any kind of war, even preemptive wars, is imperialism. Everyone is imperialist! The marxist definition of imperialism as the stage of monopoly capitalism has vanished. Even the smallest nation making the smallest war can become as much imperialist as a country that has made dozens of wars in a few decades.


You do understand that Lenin's theory of imperialism is connected to economics? ... Secondly, Lenin's theory on imperialism is outdated (radical), why? I'm not saying he was wrong, but the parts he was right in (globalization) were already mentioned by Marx. Why is outdated, capitalism has changed - and don't give me the bullshit that capitalism is capitalism

Quote:
Kurds in Syria have no citizenship. Wow, now I discover that the Syrian kurdes are not Syrians. What are they? I don't know?

So you're saying that immigrants in, lets say the United States, don't deserve citizenship? ... But this is even stranger, the Kurds lived in Syria their whole life.. It must be said, the Assad regime gave Kurds citizenship in 2012, but that had more to do with opportunism then good policy.
Quote:
The degree of exploitation is determined by who amongst the bourgeoisie supposedly possess the means of production, and not by the amount of generated surplus-value. Christian church 1 - Marx 0.

actually, the degree of exploitaiton is decided by how much of the income a bourgeoise steals from a worker.
Quote:
They are "repressive on the ground of ethnicity." So basically the only persons in this civil war who defend national unity, who represent most of the Syrian minorities but also the Sunni majority are "repressive on the ground of ethnicity"? Yes, and Hitler was a communist, that's well-known.

he's not defended national unity, if he had defended national unity, he would have done the same thing as Ali ABdullah Saleh, the former President of Yemen.. What he do, he resigned, and was succeeded by his vice president. Of course, Assad can't do that, since Syria is his family's property - think of all the money they will lose.
Quote:
Every Marxist calls himself a socialist. No, only in the English-speaking world, because communism remained weak in most of those countries, unlike France, Russia or Italia. Therefore English speakers are usually unable to understand correctly the difference between communism and socialism.

Lenin said, if I remember, "Every communist is a socialist, but not all socialists are communist" (or something similar).
Quote:
In the eyes of the Arab people Assad is oppressive: If this lie was true Bachar would have lost the war 2 years ago like Gaddafi did. In the eyes of many, Assad is oppressive against the takfiri, and they like that.

What does Assad winning the civil war have to do with support? Apartheid in South Africa would have continued if not the West had sanctioned the hell out of South Africa. Pol Pot's regime did not fall because of popular discontent, it collapsed because of a Vietnamese invasion. The communist regime in Afghanistan collapsed because they lost funding (they could no longer pay for the loyalty of their soldiers).. Assad is lucky, the Sunni middle class, a largely secular capitalist class, know they will be the first to be attacked if the Islamists takeover. Because of that, Assad is promoting the myth that the opposition is made of a united, terrorist loving islamists looking for nothing else than to destroy Syria.

At last, if you support the current Syrian regime, why do you have a picture of Salah Jadid, you do know that he told Assad senior, before he was sent to jail, "If I ever [re]take power, you will be dragged through the streets until you die".. Paradox is it not?
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Aug 2010, 14:21
Party Bureaucrat
Post 18 Feb 2014, 14:45
Quote:
You do understand that Lenin's theory of imperialism is connected to economics?

Indeed, that was my point.

Quote:
Secondly, Lenin's theory on imperialism is outdated (radical), why? I'm not saying he was wrong, but the parts he was right in (globalization) were already mentioned by Marx. Why is outdated, capitalism has changed - and don't give me the bullshit that capitalism is capitalism

"Thins have changed" is the usual bullshit against any kind of theory or opinion. But there you are not explaining anything, only stating that you disagree with Lenin.

Quote:
So you're saying that immigrants in, lets say the United States, don't deserve citizenship? ... But this is even stranger, the Kurds lived in Syria their whole life.. It must be said, the Assad regime gave Kurds citizenship in 2012, but that had more to do with opportunism then good policy.

What are you speaking about again? There have been Kurdish Syrian citizens for decades.

Quote:
actually, the degree of exploitaiton is decided by how much of the income a bourgeoise steals from a worker.

So "income" has replaced surplus-value in post-marxist theories, and moreover you can "steal" it to the worker. And then you pretend to give lessons in Marxism.


Quote:
he's not defended national unity, if he had defended national unity, he would have done the same thing as Ali ABdullah Saleh, the former President of Yemen..

The one who defend national unity is the one who don't step back or flee like a coward against imperialism and islamist maneuvers. Bachar made a lot of concessions, but resigning might have been disastrous. What do Bachar's family possess exactly? Who are you refering to exactly? Moreover you can't compare with Yemen becayse in Yemen the events were closely monitored by Saudi Arabia, while in Syria you have Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Turkey, France and of course the USA trying to overthrow the government.

Quote:
Lenin said, if I remember, "Every communist is a socialist, but not all socialists are communist" (or something similar).

That doesn't look like a Lenin quotation. Communism is a branch of the historical socialist movement. But when you are a communist you don't call yourself a socialist because after the bolshevik revolution and at the beginning of the 1920's most socialist movements split, there was those who remained "socialists" and those who became "communists". Due to the weakness of revolutionary political parties in english-speaking countries (compared to the strength of worker unions), this difference is largely ignored. In France and Italy "socialists" are anticommunists and usually broke with Marxism 30 years ago. This is the same with the term "social-democracy". At the beginning of the last century it was used by the bolsheviks, but now if you say that you are a social-democrat like Hollande or the German SPD, communists will laugh at you.


Quote:
What does Assad winning the civil war have to do with support?

So now winning a war has nothing to do with support from the population? As if the communists in Afghanistan or the fascists in South Africa didn't lost mostly because of the lack of support amongst the population... I think you don't see how ridiculous it is to say that support from the population isn't important and complain because the communists could "no longer PAY for the loyalty of their soldiers". Are you reading what you write?

Quote:
Assad is lucky, the Sunni middle class

So now you recognize that he is "lucky" to have some support from the "middle class"? And you wonder how winning the war "ha[s] to do with support"?

Quote:
At last, if you support the current Syrian regime, why do you have a picture of Salah Jadid, you do know that he told Assad senior, before he was sent to jail, "If I ever [re]take power, you will be dragged through the streets until you die".. Paradox is it not?

A paradox, or dialectics, or as Lenin said, supporting as a rope supports a hangman.
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"Fishing is part of agriculture" Gred
"Loz, you are like me" Yami
"I am one of the better read Marxists on this site" Gred
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 29 Sep 2011, 13:51
Ideology: Democratic Socialism
Party Member
Post 26 Feb 2014, 20:47
Video Shows How Syrian Army Ambushed, Killed 175 Militants in Eastern Gouta

The Syrian army ambushed and killed on Wednesday 175 terrorists in eastern Gouta as they were escaping the area into either Jordan or Qalamoun.

The video shows queues of militants moving in the area of Bahret Atayba before two big explosion rocked the group, killing most of its members.

The Syrian army, then, shot dead all the terrorists who tried to flee.


May this serve as a testament to the might of one of the greatest guerrilla fighting forces the world has ever known, Hizb-Allah who led the attack! Glory to the Syrian Arab Army and Glory to Hizb-Allah! May all who step into the holy lands of Al-Sham tremble at the sight of the deadliest single blow that Al-Nusra has ever suffered. This is what happens to terrorist scum looking to sacrifice themselves in the name of Jihad. The great Hassan Nasrallah will do the work for you instead.


More info here:

http://www.albawaba.com/news/syria-damascus-557448

http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Middle ... z2uQwnSNzC

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/world ... 145377.htm

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/02/2 ... TA20140226
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The great art of life is sensation; to feel that you exist, even in pain.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 19 Mar 2005, 20:08
Embalmed
Post 07 Mar 2014, 22:59
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"Bleh, i don't even know what i'm arguing for. What a stupid rant. Disregard what i wrote." - Loz
"Every time is gyros time" - Stalinista
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 29 Sep 2011, 13:51
Ideology: Democratic Socialism
Party Member
Post 17 Mar 2014, 16:01
Quote:
Syrian troops seize key rebel town of Yabroud
Blow for Syrian rebels as Assad forces seize Yabroud – and cut off key supply line

Syrian government troops seized the last rebel stronghold on the border with Lebanon on Sunday, choking off a vital supply line for the insurgency outside the capital.
The capture of Yabroud is the latest in a series of steady advances by the regime that, on the third anniversary of the conflict, is tipping the military balance in its favour.
The Syrian army, backed by members of the Lebanese militant group Hizbollah, entered Yabroud on Sunday morning, pushing all but the most diehard of rebel groups to the outskirts, government and opposition sources said.
"This new success ... is an important step towards securing the border area with Lebanon, and cutting off the roads and tightening the noose around the remaining terrorist cells in Damascus province," the Syrian military announced in a statement.
For more than a year, Yabroud was the last major opposition held town in Qalamoun province, west of Damascus.

Weapons and food supplies flowed through Yabroud from Lebanon and were smuggled to rebel pockets in Homs and the capital that were barely surviving under tight government sieges.

But over the past few months, Hizbollah and the government worked together to take back Yabroud and the surrounding villages through a combination of locally negotiated ceasefires and brute military force.
Over the past eight months, artillery attacks increased on the town.

On Sunday morning, the army and loyalist Hizbollah militias launched their ground offensive, capturing most of the town and pushing rebel opponents to the outskirts.
An activist who fled to the Lebanon border town of Aarsal said "only a handful of rebel fighters are in the town. They will fight to the death".
The fight for Yabroud has caused thousands of refugees to flee to the small town of Aarsal, which lies in the no-man's-land between Lebanon and Syria and already hosts at least 51,000 Syrian refugees.
The Syrian army launched up to 20 air raids on the outskirts of Aarsal, targeting rebel fighter fleeing across the border, Lebanese security sources said.
The exodus into Aarsal has escalated sectarian enmity in Lebanon. Hizbollah has blamed a recent spate of bombings in it heartland Shia Muslim areas on Sunni opposition fighters from Yabroud, who they say are using Aarsal as a conduit through which to send explosives.


It's been victory after victory for Hezbollah and the Syrian Arab army this year. Rebel fighters are in complete disarray now and their masters in Qatar and in Saudi Arabia are in conflict with each other.

The current takeover of the Ukraine by fascist forces is all the more reason for Putin to fight for Syria even harder. With the world's media attention focused on the Ukraine, pres. Bashar al-Assad can continue fighting his war without too much interference from the west.
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The great art of life is sensation; to feel that you exist, even in pain.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 15 Nov 2012, 01:18
Komsomol
Post 26 Mar 2014, 03:17
On the interconnection between Bachar, ISIS, Anbar and Maliki.

Quote:
Iraq, Syria: Assad, Maliki and the use of ISIS

Two similar events in two neighboring countries, two allied regimes and two leaders are about to fall in Iraq and Syria. Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki and President Bashar al-Assad are facing the same challenges and problems; they have to leave power while both are allied in the war. Maliki reiterated that he will not allow the collapse of his ally, the Assad regime, despite its horrific crimes.

This is neither my story nor my point of view, but both regimes fought against the so-called the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS). There is nothing suspicious about fighting ISIS since it is a terrorist group, except that its emergence was in parallel with the crisis of the two regimes and it has only been active in regions controlled by the opposition. Maliki and Assad used ISIS to manipulate the Western and local public opinions. Fighting ISIS was associated with the survival of the two regimes that are presumably living out their last days in power!

Maliki, the outcast

Maliki is a legitimate governor who was elected through ballots, but he does not want to leave power especially as there are only two months remaining before the parliamentary elections that will determine the future of the prime minister’s office. It will be difficult for him to win, if not impossible. Today, Maliki has become an outcast as many political forces, including his allies who vaulted him to power four years ago, have abandoned him as he did not win the majority of votes. He won with the votes of the Sadrists, the Supreme Council led by Ammar al-Hakim, and the Kurds. Now, it is almost certain that the Sadrists and al-Hakim’s council are against him, and thus he has lost the majority of the Shiite vote. Moreover, Maliki is at odds with the Kurdistan Regional Government, and as a result he has lost the votes of the Kurds. What is even worse is that his candidates have shamefully lost in the recent municipal elections, during which the majority of Iraqi people rejected Maliki, who spent eight years tearing apart the country with corruption and terrorism.



When Maliki visited Washington, the U.S. government warned him of using the card of fighting terrorism as an excuse to cancel elections. They have even told Iraqi Parliament Speaker Osama al-Nujaifi that they fear Maliki’s battle against ISIS in Anbar is a precursor to postponing elections in a bid to stay in power.

Indeed, this may be Maliki’s plan: provoking Anbar tribes and clans under the pretext of fighting the terrorist ISIS and luring Anbar’s people into a sectarian war. Maliki wants to polish up his image by engaging in combat in Sunni Anbar as the protector of the Shiites. He aims to gain back the votes of the Sadrists and Ammar al-Hakim’s Supreme Council! Hence he felt that he cannot lobby the Shiites especially since the Sadrists have explicitly warned him against waging battles against ISIS to win the elections.

Worst case scenario

The most likely, and worst case, scenario is that Maliki will indeed use the clashes against ISIS and insurgents in Anbar to declare a state of emergency, and then postpone the elections until the end of July when the Iraqi parliament expires and loses its legislative powers. Consequently, Maliki alone will decide when and how to hold the elections, after a year or two, and consequently he will remain a nightmare haunting the Iraqi people.

Maliki is replicating Assad’s plan in Syria. He uses ISIS to intimidate Iraqi people and to threaten the West in his bid to stay in power. Maliki’s connections with Iran make the repeat of Assad’s scenario likely.


http://www.ncr-iran.org/en/news/terrori ... se-of-isis
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Aug 2010, 14:21
Party Bureaucrat
Post 22 Apr 2014, 14:30
German rapper Denis Mamadou Cuspert, fighting with ISIS in Syria, is dead. He was killed by a suicide attack of the Al Nusra Front.


CASUALTIES:
AL NUSRA: 2
ISIS: 16

Not too bad.


Sans-culotte will be glad.
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"Fishing is part of agriculture" Gred
"Loz, you are like me" Yami
"I am one of the better read Marxists on this site" Gred
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 04 Aug 2004, 20:49
Ideology: Democratic Socialism
Embalmed
Post 23 Apr 2014, 11:14
"The Red Line and the Bat Line is a recent article by Seymour Hersh, the guy who wrote that article linked a few pages back entitled "Whose Sarin?" that links the use of Sarin with Extremist-Jihadist factions operating inside Syria. Due to the length of the article, it's probably not the best idea to copy/paste the whole thing here, so I will give a few excerpts, oh, as ever with journalists, they protect their sources:

Quote:
For months there had been acute concern among senior military leaders and the intelligence community about the role in the war of Syria’s neighbours, especially Turkey. Prime Minister Recep Erdoğan was known to be supporting the al-Nusra Front, a jihadist faction among the rebel opposition, as well as other Islamist rebel groups. ‘We knew there were some in the Turkish government,’ a former senior US intelligence official, who has access to current intelligence, told me, ‘who believed they could get Assad’s nuts in a vice by dabbling with a sarin attack inside Syria – and forcing Obama to make good on his red line threat.’

The joint chiefs also knew that the Obama administration’s public claims that only the Syrian army had access to sarin were wrong. The American and British intelligence communities had been aware since the spring of 2013 that some rebel units in Syria were developing chemical weapons. On 20 June analysts for the US Defense Intelligence Agency issued a highly classified five-page ‘talking points’ briefing for the DIA’s deputy director, David Shedd, which stated that al-Nusra maintained a sarin production cell: its programme, the paper said, was ‘the most advanced sarin plot since al-Qaida’s pre-9/11 effort’. (According to a Defense Department consultant, US intelligence has long known that al-Qaida experimented with chemical weapons, and has a video of one of its gas experiments with dogs.) The DIA paper went on: ‘Previous IC [intelligence community] focus had been almost entirely on Syrian CW [chemical weapons] stockpiles; now we see ANF attempting to make its own CW … Al-Nusrah Front’s relative freedom of operation within Syria leads us to assess the group’s CW aspirations will be difficult to disrupt in the future.’ The paper drew on classified intelligence from numerous agencies: ‘Turkey and Saudi-based chemical facilitators,’ it said, ‘were attempting to obtain sarin precursors in bulk, tens of kilograms, likely for the anticipated large scale production effort in Syria.’ (Asked about the DIA paper, a spokesperson for the director of national intelligence said: ‘No such paper was ever requested or produced by intelligence community analysts.’)

Last May, more than ten members of the al-Nusra Front were arrested in southern Turkey with what local police told the press were two kilograms of sarin. In a 130-page indictment the group was accused of attempting to purchase fuses, piping for the construction of mortars, and chemical precursors for sarin. Five of those arrested were freed after a brief detention. The others, including the ringleader, Haytham Qassab, for whom the prosecutor requested a prison sentence of 25 years, were released pending trial. In the meantime the Turkish press has been rife with speculation that the Erdoğan administration has been covering up the extent of its involvement with the rebels. In a news conference last summer, Aydin Sezgin, Turkey’s ambassador to Moscow, dismissed the arrests and claimed to reporters that the recovered ‘sarin’ was merely ‘anti-freeze’.

The DIA paper took the arrests as evidence that al-Nusra was expanding its access to chemical weapons. It said Qassab had ‘self-identified’ as a member of al-Nusra, and that he was directly connected to Abd-al-Ghani, the ‘ANF emir for military manufacturing’. Qassab and his associate Khalid Ousta worked with Halit Unalkaya, an employee of a Turkish firm called Zirve Export, who provided ‘price quotes for bulk quantities of sarin precursors’. Abd-al-Ghani’s plan was for two associates to ‘perfect a process for making sarin, then go to Syria to train others to begin large scale production at an unidentified lab in Syria’. The DIA paper said that one of his operatives had purchased a precursor on the ‘Baghdad chemical market’, which ‘has supported at least seven CW efforts since 2004’.


and

Quote:
An American foreign policy expert who speaks regularly with officials in Washington and Ankara told me about a working dinner Obama held for Erdoğan during his May visit. The meal was dominated by the Turks’ insistence that Syria had crossed the red line and their complaints that Obama was reluctant to do anything about it. Obama was accompanied by John Kerry and Tom Donilon, the national security adviser who would soon leave the job. Erdoğan was joined by Ahmet Davutoğlu, Turkey’s foreign minister, and Hakan Fidan, the head of the MIT. Fidan is known to be fiercely loyal to Erdoğan, and has been seen as a consistent backer of the radical rebel opposition in Syria.

The foreign policy expert told me that the account he heard originated with Donilon. (It was later corroborated by a former US official, who learned of it from a senior Turkish diplomat.) According to the expert, Erdoğan had sought the meeting to demonstrate to Obama that the red line had been crossed, and had brought Fidan along to state the case. When Erdoğan tried to draw Fidan into the conversation, and Fidan began speaking, Obama cut him off and said: ‘We know.’ Erdoğan tried to bring Fidan in a second time, and Obama again cut him off and said: ‘We know.’ At that point, an exasperated Erdoğan said, ‘But your red line has been crossed!’ and, the expert told me, ‘Donilon said Erdoğan “fragging waved his finger at the president inside the White House”.’ Obama then pointed at Fidan and said: ‘We know what you’re doing with the radicals in Syria.’ (Donilon, who joined the Council on Foreign Relations last July, didn’t respond to questions about this story. The Turkish Foreign Ministry didn’t respond to questions about the dinner. A spokesperson for the National Security Council confirmed that the dinner took place and provided a photograph showing Obama, Kerry, Donilon, Erdoğan, Fidan and Davutoğlu sitting at a table. ‘Beyond that,’ she said, ‘I’m not going to read out the details of their discussions.’)



There is a section in between these excerpts that posits that Turkey is buying Iranain oil with its gold reserves.

It turns out Erdogan is a bigger wanker than I had originally thought.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 04 Aug 2004, 20:49
Ideology: Democratic Socialism
Embalmed
Post 24 Apr 2014, 07:58
This warrants its own post

British Government encourages nagging women to stop Jihad dead in its tracks.

Quote:
The number of Britons arrested after returning from Syria has increased up to six-fold as police urge mothers and wives of would-be jihadists to report on their loved ones.
Some 40 people were detained in just the first three months of this year for Syria-related activities compared with just 25 for the whole of 2013.
If the pattern continues some 160 people will be arrested during 2014 for either travelling to the war-torn country to fight or for helping others do so.
Scotland Yard today opened a new front in its efforts to stop would-be jihadists from heading for the country by targeting their mothers, wives, sisters and girlfriends.
Helen Ball, the Metropolitan Police’s senior national coordinator for counter terrorism, started a national campaign to urge women to use their influence over loved ones.

She said: “We are increasingly concerned about the numbers of young people who have or are intending to travel to Syria to join the conflict.
“We want to ensure that people, particularly women, who are concerned about their loved ones are given enough information about what they can do to prevent this from happening.
"We want to increase their confidence in the police and partners to encourage them to come forward so that we can intervene and help.
“This is not about criminalising people it is about preventing tragedies. We want to inform those who wish to genuinely help the Syrian cause how they can do so safely and legally."
It is feared up to 500 Britons have travelled to Syria, with at least 20 believed to have been killed. More than 200 may have already returned home.
Abdullah Deghayes, 18, from Brighton, is believed to have died in Kassab, in Latakia province, earlier this month after leaving the UK in January.
His father Abubaker Deghayes, who learned of his son's death via Facebook, said his two others sons, Jaffar, 16, and 20-year-old Amer have also travelled to Syria and pleaded for them to return.
Abdullah, who was due to go to university in Brighton, is the nephew of Omar Deghayes, who was held by the United States as an enemy combatant at Guantánamo Bay detention camp between 2002 and 2007 after he was arrested in Pakistan.
In a separate case, Abdul Waheed Majeed, 41, is believed to have driven a lorry to a jail in Aleppo before detonating a bomb in February.
The married father of three, who was born and raised in Crawley, West Sussex, left Britain in 2013, telling his family he was going on a humanitarian mission to Syria.
Photographs were also published in January of two British brothers, named in reports as Akra and Mohamed Sebah from north London, who were believed to have died in battle in the war-torn country in September.
Representatives from the Government’s Prevent counter-terrorism scheme, the Charity Commission and other groups were due to meet at Scotland Yard today for the launch of the latest campaign.
Police have advised those who want to support humanitarian efforts in Syria to donate to charities instead of going there.
Michelle Russell, from the Charity Commission, said: "There is a genuine and desperate need for humanitarian assistance to help people affected by the conflict in Syria.
"UK charities and their partners are playing an important role in the delivery of humanitarian aid to Syria and its neighbouring countries. In part, they have only been able to do this by the generous donations of the public.
"We want everyone to make informed choices about which charities to support and how to support them so that they can feel confident that their contribution really will make a difference to the humanitarian effort."
: Counter terrorism police raided six homes across the south of England yesterday as part of an investigation in a group of suspected Islamist extremists.
Officers from Scotland Yard are also examining whether the men wanted to travel to Syria to fight.
Properties in High Wycombe in Buckinghamshire, Hounslow in Middlesex, Walthamstow in east London, Brentford in south west London and two in Greenford, west London were searched.
A number of cars were also searched.
Two men were arrested at a further two addresses on suspicion to commit grievous bodily harm.
The pair, one aged 30 who was held in Hounslow and one aged 18 who was held in Brentford, was being questioned last night over the allegations, which are not terrorism-related.


Or does this mean the stupid government is going to start "leaning" on people?
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"Phil Spector is haunting Europe" -Dr. Karl H. Marx
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Soviet cogitations: 3618
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 22 Oct 2004, 15:15
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Politburo
Post 24 Apr 2014, 10:49
OP-Bagration wrote:
German rapper Denis Mamadou Cuspert, fighting with ISIS in Syria, is dead. He was killed by a suicide attack of the Al Nusra Front.


CASUALTIES:
AL NUSRA: 2
ISIS: 16

Not too bad.


Sans-culotte will be glad.


On that note, I heard on the news yesterday that two Dutch guys also committed suicide bombings in Syria over the past few months. This according to a report by the intelligence service AIVD. There was a bit of surprise at this, that people born and/or raised in this country (children of immigrants, but also converts) would actually go as far as blowing themselves up. But it was already known that many western Muslims who went there were not just involved in support work (as they claimed in the past), but also in beheadings and the like. Suicide bombing is just the next step then.

Part of me thinks that it is better, because at least they won't come back here. There are known to be over a hundred Dutch Muslims in Syria, and that 30 have returned to the Netherlands at some point. These are not only people traumatised by combat experience, but also some who have participated in massacres, beheadings, etc. The government simply says that the terrorism threat level remains substantial and that these people "are being watched" by the AIVD, but that they will not intervene directly nor even get in touch with their families, who are often desperate about what happens to their children. Quite remarkable.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 04 Aug 2004, 20:49
Ideology: Democratic Socialism
Embalmed
Post 24 Apr 2014, 11:09
Has anybody been remotely surprised by the sheer hypocrisy of Tony Blair in recently claiming that Syria is now a complete sectarian shitmess where the Assad regime is the only decent institution capable of holding the country together, whereas the rebels have simply become the worst kind of sectarian, violent and bloodthirsty extremists, only contradicting his previous urges to intelligence officials and governments around the world to support intervening on the side of the rebels a mere 8 or so months ago? I mean, I expected him to be a slippery little opportunist Frag, but to be so two-faced in public about his complete 180 degree turn on how he feels?

This has been parroted recently by people I knew who were pro-intervention after the staged Ghouta attacks and now seem to have come to the conclusion that Assad isn't the problem in the region, but Jihadists who are flocking to Syria to commit atrocities in the name of Prince Bandar or the Qataris.

What an opportunist prick, at least I can potentially look him in the eyes and tell him "I told you so, and by the way, I'm placing you under citizen's arrest for what you did in Iraq".
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Aug 2010, 14:21
Party Bureaucrat
Post 24 Apr 2014, 12:16
Where did he said that? I haven't seen that.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 04 Aug 2004, 20:49
Ideology: Democratic Socialism
Embalmed
Post 24 Apr 2014, 13:30
Blair's £500m speech. (He gets paid stupid amounts of money to chat shit as an after-dinner speaker)

Quote:
Syria. This is an unmitigated disaster. We are now in a position where both Assad staying and the Opposition taking over seem bad options. The former is responsible for creating this situation. But the truth is that there are so many fissures and problems around elements within the Opposition that people are rightly wary now of any solution that is an outright victory for either side. Repugnant though it may seem, the only way forward is to conclude the best agreement possible even if it means in the interim President Assad stays for a period. Should even this not be acceptable to him, we should consider active measures to help the Opposition and force him to the negotiating table, including no fly zones whilst making it clear that the extremist groups should receive no support from any of the surrounding nations.


The war criminal finally admits the opposition are Islamist extremists hellbent on burning all non-believers and destroying any semblance of C20th/21st civilisation.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Oct 2004, 22:04
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Resident Soviet
Post 24 Apr 2014, 16:51
Edit: Comments removed due to irrelevance.
"The thing about capitalism is that it sounds awful on paper and is horrendous in practice. Communism sounds wonderful on paper and when it was put into practice it was done pretty well for what they had to work with." -MiG
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 18 Apr 2010, 04:44
Ideology: None
Philosophized
Post 24 Apr 2014, 17:18
They're going about it all wrong. If they leave the country to join jihad, the solution is simple: Don't let them return.

Not exactly rocket science here, guys.
Miss Strangelove: "You feed giants laxatives so goblins can mine their poop before the gnomes get to it."
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