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Should the EU restrict immigration?

POST REPLY

Should the EU restrict immigration

Yes, completely restrict all immigration
2
11%
Yes, the quotas should be tightened
4
21%
Other
2
11%
No, there should be open borders
11
58%
 
Total votes : 19
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Soviet cogitations: 1020
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 20 Jul 2011, 15:17
Party Member
Post 11 Jun 2012, 20:06
Comrade_Canuck wrote:
Im saying these incidents create themselves within the socio-economic conditions of a region.

So racist and xenophobic incidents "create themselves"? Interesting.

Quote:
When it's not doing too good and the state keeps allowing new people to settle despite not having a framework allowing them to integrate or work for them it's NATURALLY going to create a bad scapegoat.

Why are you focusing on limiting immigration instead of setting up better frameworks then?

Quote:
Just because I dont live in your asinine worldview doesnt mean it's a fox news worldview.

Please see forum rule #2. Ad hominem attacks are usually a last resort, if you feel like you are already losing a debate.
Also, let's conduct a little experiment. Google immigrants+"piling in" or "flooding in." What sorts of results come up?That is far-right rhetoric used to create an image of a situation that has no basis in reality.

Comrade_Canuck wrote:
Keep making it 'that' issue.

Which issue?

Quote:
HOWEVER under the CURRENT socio-economic framework of EVERY European country there needs to be a framework protecting current working citizens and their jobs

Those damn immigrants, stealing the jobs from the hard-working white folks.

Quote:
gross exploitation which takes place due to job scarcity, and working for less to get by.

No, it takes place when people have to sneak it and get paid under the table, because then their employers aren't held to the same minimum wage laws as they would be.
Last edited by khlib on 11 Jun 2012, 20:15, edited 1 time in total.
Loz
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User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 11879
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 06 Dec 2009, 23:17
Philosophized
Post 11 Jun 2012, 20:11
Quote:
If the EU were under the 'socialist' framework and the EU along with a number of other collective states shared the same goals this wouldn't be a problem.

Historical socialist countries did not allow much immigration ( communists and others were of course given asylum) save for perhaps E. Germany which imported some workers from Vietnam and Angola and the Soviet Union in early 30s.
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 3826
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 12 Jun 2006, 02:14
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Politburo
Post 11 Jun 2012, 20:13
Loz, that was under a Cold War context.
Today, democratic leftist states have their borders open, like in South America.


"Where Argentina goes, Latin America will go".
Leonid Brezhnev

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Soviet cogitations: 1201
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 09 May 2008, 14:59
Ideology: Other Leftist
Forum Commissar
Post 11 Jun 2012, 20:17
Loz wrote:
There are objective ways to measure progress


You can't measure something subjective objectively.

Quote:
And it's not about "European standards" ( West European ones that is), it's about undeveloped countries having to develop themselves, have functioning states and the proletariat emerge and so on. Of course it won't be a repeat of the development of Western countries (if we can speak of such a term given the difference between Germany and, say, British capitalism and how it emerged) , unfortunately for the "local bourgeoisie".


If you really believed that, what reason do you possibly have to support imperialism and closed borders?
Image


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Red_Son: Bob Avakian is the Glenn Beck of communism.
"Le prolétariat; c'est moi." - King Indigo XIV
Loz
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User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 11879
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 06 Dec 2009, 23:17
Philosophized
Post 11 Jun 2012, 20:26
Quote:
You can't measure something subjective objectively.

I'm not sure i understand this, but Lenin repeatedly and constantly talked about Russia as being backwards.


Quote:
If you really believed that, what reason do you possibly have to support imperialism and closed borders?

I don't understand. Who is supporting imperialism or closed borders here?





Quote:
Today, democratic leftist states have their borders open, like in South America.

North Korea or Cuba don't.
Venezuela is ruled by a progressive social-democrat regime. And besides not many want to emigrate there because it's a chaotic and crime-ridden place.
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Soviet cogitations: 1201
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 09 May 2008, 14:59
Ideology: Other Leftist
Forum Commissar
Post 11 Jun 2012, 20:41
Loz wrote:
I'm not sure i understand this, but Lenin repeatedly and constantly talked about Russia as being backwards.


That's not any kind of argument.

Loz wrote:
I don't understand. Who is supporting imperialism or closed borders here?


Right here.

Loz wrote:
No borders is a petty-bourgeois liberal slogan which is why almost all members of such groups both in the EU and America are petty-bourgeois liberals and nationalists/irredentists (in the US South) .


Loz wrote:
We need the Firstworldizatation of the Third World, not the Thirdworldization of the First World.
Image


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Red_Son: Bob Avakian is the Glenn Beck of communism.
"Le prolétariat; c'est moi." - King Indigo XIV
Loz
[+-]
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 11879
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 06 Dec 2009, 23:17
Philosophized
Post 11 Jun 2012, 20:46
Quote:
That's not any kind of argument.

It's evident that Marxists recognized that some countries are backwards compared to other ones and that this can be more-less objectively determined.


Quote:
Right here.

I'm not neccessarily arguing for closed borders as in "no immigrants should be let into xxx", nor am i "supporting" imperialism in the way the 2nd Internationale did. Am i supporting the invasions of Iran, Iraq or Afghanistan?
How am i supporting imperialism for stating an obvious truth, that the Third World needs to become more like the First World if we want to better prospects for a revolution there.
Soviet cogitations: 7674
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 11 Nov 2004, 02:08
Embalmed
Post 11 Jun 2012, 20:49
Quote:
stealing the jobs from the hard-working white folks.

Here in lies the problem, YOU'RE saying white people. Or do the only people who live in europe now have white skin?If I wanted to move to the EU and gain citizenship I couldnt because I lack skills to contribute to the economy and would become a burden.

Quit looking at this issue as strictly race, it's being hijacked by both sides to justify their points when in reality it boils down to:
Is there work?
Is now the right time to add costs to the system?
Are these jobs being taken from current nationals who could work them?

In the case of Canada I welcome immigrants with open arms to *MOST* of our provinces, why? Because at this point we need professionals or people willing to become professionals and have a job in a lot of fields. Will there be discrimination? Definitely, it's already present in the East-West divide and I've personally experienced it(the "youre taking our jobs" people).

So before you start trying to paint my positioning as one of race: I live in a country where our largest two cities are of populations neither originally Canadian nor white and don't speak our two national languages at home. I couldnt give a crap because we NEED them at this point and time, where as at this point in time Europe does not.

But hey if we're all going to advocate the destruction of capitalism and the status quo lets just say screw it, let all the borders down, you can volunteer your communities up first for new settlers, most of them will be Norwegian.
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