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Do you support the North Korean government?

POST REPLY

.

Yes
12
36%
No
18
55%
Partly
2
6%
other
1
3%
 
Total votes : 33
Soviet cogitations: 91
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 11 Dec 2011, 09:04
Pioneer
Post 23 May 2012, 11:27
I Think North Korea is as same as the Nazis except the racism.
so I don't support the dprk at all.
Last edited by moonjosh on 23 May 2012, 16:01, edited 1 time in total.
Soviet cogitations: 3448
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 26 Jun 2006, 15:59
Ideology: Other Leftist
Party Bureaucrat
Post 23 May 2012, 12:00
Could you explain what you mean by "support North Korea?"
The moment one accepts the notion of 'totalitarianism', one is firmly locked within the liberal-democratic horizon. - Slavoj Žižek
Soviet cogitations: 91
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 11 Dec 2011, 09:04
Pioneer
Post 23 May 2012, 12:20
Whitten wrote:
Could you explain what you mean by "support North Korea?"


I mean if you are sympathizing North korea or not
Soviet cogitations: 10005
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 14 Jul 2008, 20:01
Ideology: Trotskyism
Philosophized
Post 23 May 2012, 13:17
Why is sympathy relevant? Should I like it for its cuisine?
"Don't know why i'm still surprised with this shit anyway." - Loz
Soviet cogitations: 3448
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 26 Jun 2006, 15:59
Ideology: Other Leftist
Party Bureaucrat
Post 23 May 2012, 14:33
Sympathising with what? The nation? Its people? Its workers? Its Government? the Kim Dynasty? What?
The moment one accepts the notion of 'totalitarianism', one is firmly locked within the liberal-democratic horizon. - Slavoj Žižek
Soviet cogitations: 91
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 11 Dec 2011, 09:04
Pioneer
Post 23 May 2012, 16:03
Whitten wrote:
Sympathising with what? The nation? Its people? Its workers? Its Government? the Kim Dynasty? What?



Of course the Kims dynasty and the Government.
What else did you expect?
Soviet cogitations: 10005
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 14 Jul 2008, 20:01
Ideology: Trotskyism
Philosophized
Post 23 May 2012, 17:41
How should I know whether I sympathise with these people? I've never met them. I also really don't consider myself capable of deciding whether or not they're doing the right things from their position. Therefore I don't really care, because every attempt at an opinion would be unjustified. I mean it's not communism, so it sucks, but I really can't decide whether or not the DPRK is worse than, for example, Uganda. Since I don't have an opinion on Uganda, I don't have one on the DPRK either. But the DPRK is almost by definition better than every imperialist state, so I see no special reason to hate it more than any other non-imperialist state.

Voted other.
"Don't know why i'm still surprised with this shit anyway." - Loz
Soviet cogitations: 3448
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 26 Jun 2006, 15:59
Ideology: Other Leftist
Party Bureaucrat
Post 23 May 2012, 21:46
No, of course not. The Kims are an anti-worker monarchy which have elevated themselves to quasi-religious status and are starving their own people with their incompetance.
The moment one accepts the notion of 'totalitarianism', one is firmly locked within the liberal-democratic horizon. - Slavoj Žižek
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 2293
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Aug 2010, 14:21
Party Bureaucrat
Post 23 May 2012, 22:21
I voted yes, because I can't accept any comparison with Nazi Germany. I think that anyone who dares to assume such comparison is not a communist.
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"Fishing is part of agriculture" Gred
"Loz, you are like me" Yami
"I am one of the better read Marxists on this site" Gred
[+-]
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Soviet cogitations: 48
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 17 May 2012, 00:16
Ideology: Democratic Socialism
Pioneer
Post 24 May 2012, 00:00
Hell no...
I would much rather live in South Korea than North Korea.
What i dont support is a war on North Korea.
★I AM A PROGRESSIVE SOCIALIST IN FAVOR OF DEMOCRACY★"
☮★☭★☭☮ Pro Palestine, Pro Working class, Pro Union, Pro Progressive Tax, Pro Democracy, Pro Syndicalism, Pro Socialist
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Soviet cogitations: 2293
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Aug 2010, 14:21
Party Bureaucrat
Post 24 May 2012, 01:08
Then you have no respect for the hundreds of thousands of communists who died during the Korean War. You have no honor.
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"Fishing is part of agriculture" Gred
"Loz, you are like me" Yami
"I am one of the better read Marxists on this site" Gred
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 4465
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 30 Mar 2010, 01:20
Ideology: None
Forum Commissar
Post 24 May 2012, 01:50
OP-Bagration wrote:
Then you have no respect for the hundreds of thousands of communists who died during the Korean War. You have no honor.
You seem to have a disproportionate sympathy for dead communists over living people (of course they have to be the right type of communists though
).

I get the feeling that you'd like to purge this board on any SD sentiments, but they're here and as long as they're not trolling it really shouldn't be a problem.

As far as the racism goes, I was pretty sure there were a number of threads where North Korean racism had been discussed at some length. Analogies with Nazis are pretty extreme and inappropriate though.

As far as the OP goes...
The North Korean government? No.
The North Korean people? Yes
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 2293
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Aug 2010, 14:21
Party Bureaucrat
Post 24 May 2012, 02:47
Quote:
You seem to have a disproportionate sympathy for dead communists over living people (of course they have to be the right type of communists though ).

Why do you think I speak about the past? Because we inherit from the past. And same goes for Koreans. Stupid petty-bourgeois can't understand it. We are not living above the world. And all of those who died, they had families and friends. And many of them are still alive. I don't know any revolutionary in the history of mankind who didn't knew much about the past. This is called culture, and it means everything, not for the deads, but for living people. For many of us, posterity will be our only pay. But if you forget the past, you can be sure that you won't have any posterity at all.

Quote:
I get the feeling that you'd like to purge this board on any SD sentiments, but they're here and as long as they're not trolling it really shouldn't be a problem.

There is no problem as long as people keep trying to purge it. Moonjosh insulted thousands of Koreans. What is my answer worth when I have nothing more to insult, as retaliation, than a bunch of trolls? What would you say to the thousands killed in 1950 by Fascist dictator Rhee, if they were still alive? What will you say to their families? Some of them were only children. How many Communists died in the Bodo League massacre, and in the war itself? North Korea, and its government, are a terrible relic from the past. But it is terrible because it was built as the sword of justice. And they still have to finish the job.

Quote:
As far as the racism goes, I was pretty sure there were a number of threads where North Korean racism had been discussed at some length.

If North Koreans were racists, they would not have someone like Alejandro Cao de Benos :

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"Fishing is part of agriculture" Gred
"Loz, you are like me" Yami
"I am one of the better read Marxists on this site" Gred
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 4465
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 30 Mar 2010, 01:20
Ideology: None
Forum Commissar
Post 24 May 2012, 03:02
Just out of curiosity, do you still run a French Language forum?
What happens to SDs and Trots who make the mistake of showing up there?

OP-Bagration wrote:
Stupid petty-bourgeois can't understand it.
The thing is.. a lot of the time you seem more interested in insulting them than educating them.
Surely it would be preferable to enlighten them a little.
[+-]
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 48
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 17 May 2012, 00:16
Ideology: Democratic Socialism
Pioneer
Post 24 May 2012, 03:08
OP-Bagration wrote:
Then you have no respect for the hundreds of thousands of communists who died during the Korean War. You have no honor.


What honor? Do i have to support a tyrannical government because some supposed communists fought capitalists and set up a dynasty like government in which the states literally owns everything (not the workers) and controls the people with a cult of personality and a iron fist? Is that really "honor"?
★I AM A PROGRESSIVE SOCIALIST IN FAVOR OF DEMOCRACY★"
☮★☭★☭☮ Pro Palestine, Pro Working class, Pro Union, Pro Progressive Tax, Pro Democracy, Pro Syndicalism, Pro Socialist
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 2293
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Aug 2010, 14:21
Party Bureaucrat
Post 24 May 2012, 04:04
Quote:
Just out of curiosity, do you still run a French Language forum?
What happens to SDs and Trots who make the mistake of showing up there?

On the former forum I was on the moderate side of the administration. I created a new forum because the Cuban pro-gaddafists were very disrespectful. The new forum has very few membership, but I didn't expelled anyone. Trotskyists have the same rights as others.

Quote:
The thing is.. a lot of the time you seem more interested in insulting them than educating them.
Surely it would be preferable to enlighten them a little.

Education through violence is good, but I'm not a teacher. This is what Zizek would say. Moonjosh said that North-Koreans are more or less Nazis. I answered dialectically: "you are the Nazi." It think that most people are clinging to their opinions as oysters. If you want to have them move, first you have to shock them. This is perfectly Marxist, I recognize that ideas are based on class struggle, that is to say violence. I don't believe in absolute reason.

Moreover, Milgram Eperiment's conclusion is clear: you only have to say no in order to move the lines. I have no doubt that, by attacking my adversary frontally, I already started to undermine his positions.

Quote:
What honor? Do i have to support a tyrannical government because some supposed communists fought capitalists and set up a dynasty like government in which the states literally owns everything (not the workers) and controls the people with a cult of personality and a iron fist? Is that really "honor"?

Marx thought that the State was created in order to defend the interests of a class. The State isn't a class, so it can't own anything. Your analysis is typically bourgeois because you don't care about class struggle but about "democracy in general" (this is kautskyism) or about the standard of living. So you support South Korea, which may have a better standard of living in general, but is still the direct descendant of South Korean capitalist dictatorship which killed thousands of communists and remains a threat to peace. What happened to former president Roh Moo-hyun?
Image

"Fishing is part of agriculture" Gred
"Loz, you are like me" Yami
"I am one of the better read Marxists on this site" Gred
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 1655
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 18 Jul 2011, 09:57
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Party Member
Post 24 May 2012, 05:42
Absolutely not. I do not support the DPRK, Juche or any other form of Kim-fappery.

But a comparison to the Nazis is a little over the top and juvenile.
I don't regret burning my bridges. I regret that some people weren't on those bridges when I burned them.
Soviet cogitations: 91
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 11 Dec 2011, 09:04
Pioneer
Post 24 May 2012, 10:22
Quote:
As far as the racism goes, I was pretty sure there were a number of threads where North Korean racism had been discussed at some length.

If North Koreans were racists, they would not have someone like Alejandro Cao de Benos :[/quote]

I clearly said "except the racism"
Soviet cogitations: 91
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 11 Dec 2011, 09:04
Pioneer
Post 24 May 2012, 10:34
OP-Bagration wrote:
Then you have no respect for the hundreds of thousands of communists who died during the Korean War. You have no honor.




Yes that true but the problem is that the North Korea isn't a socialist country anymore.

Already In 1992 they deleted the Marxism-Leninism substances in their WPK platform
and they deleted the communism substances on their constitution in 2009.
In the 1998 constitution their goals that are specified in their constitution was "Socialism and Communism"
But in 2009 constitution,they changed their goals to "Socialism and Songun"
It means that they gived up to build communism.

Actually they weren't a socialist country already in the 70s
whan they made Kim Jong Il the suceeder.
and they hardly used the word "marxism-leninism" since the mid 1970s
and thay stated to use the word "communism" very few times since the 1980s
they only use "socialism" today.


I want to say that the North Korea is as marxist as WallStreet.
Last edited by moonjosh on 24 May 2012, 10:50, edited 2 times in total.
Soviet cogitations: 91
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 11 Dec 2011, 09:04
Pioneer
Post 24 May 2012, 10:40
Chthonic171 wrote:
But a comparison to the Nazis is a little over the top and juvenile.


I think my comparison of North korea to the Nazis are quite exaggerated but I don't think it's fully wrong.
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