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Opinions on Josip Broz Tito and Titoism

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Opinions on Titosim

Tito was a good leader and Titoism was a good system.
20
54%
Tito was a poor leader but Titoism was a good system.
0
No votes
Tito was a good leader but Titosim was a poor system.
10
27%
Tito was a bad leader and Titoism was a poor system.
6
16%
Other.
1
3%
 
Total votes : 37
Loz
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 06 Dec 2009, 23:17
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Post 15 May 2012, 23:06
It is actally no surprise that a Jucheist would find Tito good.
After all didn't Kim Il Sung praise him to high heavens? Did Ceausescu not have good relations with Pyongyang too?
Birds of "national communist" feather stick together i guess...
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 13 Feb 2008, 15:25
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Post 16 May 2012, 02:52
That's pretty funny coming from you mister ultra sectarian Hoxhaist.

Voted "Tito was a good leader and Titoism was a good system". I have some criticisms of Tito and "Titoism", but on the whole, I think it was a legitimate attempt at building Socialism.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 14 Jul 2008, 20:01
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Post 16 May 2012, 07:10
In general, I support the leadership of the socialist states (except for obvious exceptions like Gorbachev or Ceausescu) on what could be called a personal level, because they were obviously communists, fellow comrades who meant well, even though they made several severe mistakes. Tito is no exception, so I voted Tito was a good leader but Titosim was a poor system.
"Don't know why i'm still surprised with this shit anyway." - Loz
Loz
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 06 Dec 2009, 23:17
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Post 16 May 2012, 15:35
Quote:
That's pretty funny coming from you mister ultra sectarian Hoxhaist.

Why is it funny?
You also get +points for unprovoked personal attacks against me.
Loz
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 06 Dec 2009, 23:17
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Post 16 May 2012, 16:31
MEETING OF THE INFORMATION BUREAU OF COMMUNIST PARTIES IN HUNGARY IN THE LATTER HALF OF NOVEMBER 1949

COMMUNIST PARTY OF YUGOSLAVIA IN THE POWER OF ASSASSINS AND SPIES — RESOLUTION OF THE INFORMATION BUREAU


The Information Bureau, consisting of representatives of the Communist Party of Bulgaria, the Rumanian Workers’ Party, the Hungarian Workers’ Party, the Polish United Workers’ Party, the Communist Party of the Soviet Union (Bolsheviks), the French Communist Party, the Communist Party of Czechoslovakia and the Italian Communist Party, having discussed the question, “The Communist Party of Yugoslavia in the Power of Assassins and Spies,” unanimously reached the following conclusions:

Whereas the Meeting of the Information Bureau of Communist Parties in June 1948 placed on record that the Tito-Rankovic clique had abandoned democracy and Socialism for bourgeois nationalism, in the period that has elapsed since that meeting of the Information Bureau this clique have definitely passed from bourgeois nationalism to fascism and outright betrayal of the national interests of Yugoslavia.

Recent developments have shown that the Yugoslav government is in a state of complete dependence on foreign imperialist circles and has become a tool of their aggressive policy, which has resulted in the liquidation of the sovereignty and independence of the Yugoslav Republic. The Central Committee of the Party and the government of Yugoslavia have completely joined forces with the imperialist circles against the entire camp of Socialism and democracy, against the Communist Parties of the whole world, and against the People’s Democracies and the U.S.S.R.

The Belgrade clique of hired spies and assassins have openly formed a compact with imperialist reaction and entered its service, as the Budapest trial of Rajk-Brankov made perfectly clear.

This trial showed that the present Yugoslav rulers have deserted the camp of democracy and Socialism for the camp of capitalism and reaction, have become direct abettors of the instigators of a new war, and are endeavouring by their treacherous deeds to earn the praise of, and curry favour with the imperialists.

The desertion of the Tito clique to fascism is not fortuitous; it was done at the orders of their masters, the British and American imperialists, whose hirelings, as is now known, they have been for long.

The Yugoslav traitors, in obedience to the wishes of the imperialists, made it their purpose to recruit in the People’s Democracies political gangs consisting of reactionary, nationalist, clerical and fascist elements, and, with their support, to effect counterrevolutionary coups in these countries, sever them from the Soviet Union and the entire socialist camp and subordinate them to the forces of imperialism. The Tito clique converted Belgrade into a centre of American espionage and anti-Communist propaganda.

When all sincere friends of peace, democracy and Socialism look upon the U.S.S.R. as a mighty stronghold of Socialism, as a loyal and steadfast protector of the liberty and independence of peoples, as the main buttress of peace, the Tito-Rankovic clique, having climbed to power under the mask of friends of the U.S.S.R., have, at the behest of the American and British imperialists, started a campaign of calumny and provocation against the Soviet Union, utilizing the most dastardly fabrications borrowed from the arsenal of the Hitlerites.

The conversion of the Tito-Rankovic clique into direct agents of imperialism and abettors of the warmongers was consummated by the open adhesion of the Yugoslav government to the imperialist bloc in the United Nations, where the Kardeljs, Djilases and Belblersact in a united front with the American reactionaries on major questions of international policy.

In the sphere of home policy, the principal outcome of the activities of the traitorous Tito-Rankovic clique is the actual liquidation of the people’s democratic system in Yugoslavia.

As a result of the counterrevolutionary policy of the Tito-Rankovic clique, who have usurped power in the party and the state, an anti-Communist police regime of the fascist type has been installed in Yugoslavia. The social basis of this regime consists of the kulaks in the countryside and the capitalist elements in the towns. Power in Yugoslavia is in fact in the hands of anti-popular, reactionary elements. Active members of the old bourgeois parties, kulaks and other elements hostile to people’s democracy are ensconced in the central and local government bodies. The ruling fascist clique maintain their power with the help of an inordinately inflated military and police machine, by means of which they oppress the peoples of Yugoslavia, have turned the country into a military camp, wiped out the democratic rights of the working people and suppress every free expression of opinion.

The Yugoslav rulers demagogically and brazenly deceive the people when they allege that they are building Socialism in Yugoslavia. It is clear to every Marxist that there can be absolutely no question of building Socialism in Yugoslavia when the Tito clique have broken with the Soviet Union and the entire camp of Socialism and democracy, thereby depriving Yugoslavia of the chief support in building Socialism, and when they have subordinated the country economically and politically to the American and British imperialists.

The state-owned sector in Yugoslavia’s economy has ceased to be the property of the people, since the state power is in the hands of enemies of the people. The Tito-Rankovic clique are providing wide opportunities for the penetration of foreign capital into the country’s economy and have placed it under the control of capitalist monopolies. American and British industrial and financial circles are investing capital in the Yugoslav economy and are transforming Yugoslavia into an agrarian and raw-material adjunct of foreign capital. Yugoslavia’s increasing bondage to imperialism is leading to the intensified exploitation, and severe deterioration of the conditions, of the working class.

The policy of the Yugoslav rulers in the countryside is of a kulak-capitalist character. The pseudo-cooperatives forcibly instituted in the countryside are controlled by the kulaks and their agents, and are an instrument far the exploitation of the broad mass of the labouring peasants.

The Yugoslav hirelings of imperialism, having seized the leadership of the Yugoslav Communist Party, unloosed a campaign of terror against the genuine Communists who are loyal to the principles of Marxism-Leninism and are struggling to make Yugoslavia independent of the imperialists. Thousands of Yugoslav patriots devoted to Communism have been expelled from the party and incarcerated in prison and concentration camp, while many have been tortured and murdered in jail or nefariously assassinated, like the well-known Yugoslav Communist Arso Jovanovic. The ruthlessness with which staunch champions of Communism are exterminated in Yugoslavia can only be compared with the brutalities of the Hitler fascists or of the butchers Tsaldaris in Greece and Franco in Spain.

While expelling from the ranks of the party Communists who are loyal to proletarian internationalism and annihilating them, the Yugoslav fascists have thrown the doors of the party wide open to bourgeois and kulak elements.

As a result of the fascist terror of the Tito gang against the healthy forces in the Yugoslav Communist Party, the leadership of the party is now wholly in the hands of spies and assassins, hirelings of imperialism. The Yugoslav Communist Party has fallen under the control of counterrevolutionary forces that presume to speak and act in the name of the party. We know that it is an old method of the bourgeoisie to recruit spies and provocateurs in the ranks of working-class parties. The imperialists endeavour by this means to undermine these parties from within and bring them under their control. This they have succeeded in doing in Yugoslavia.

The fascist ideology, and the fascist home policy, like the treacherous foreign policy, of the Tito clique, which are entirely governed by foreign imperialist circles, have dug a chasm between the Tito-Rankovic clique of spies and fascists and the fundamental interests of the freedom-loving Yugoslav peoples. This is why the anti-popular and treacherous activity of the Tito clique is encountering increasing resistance both from the Communists who remain loyal to Marxism-Leninism and from the working class and labouring peasantry of Yugoslavia.


* * *


On the basis of irrefutable facts testifying that the Tito clique have definitely swung over to fascism and deserted to the camp of world imperialism, the Information Bureau of Communist and Workers’ Parties considers that:

1. Tito, Rankovic, Kardelj, Djilas, Pijade, Gosnjak, Maslaric, Bebler, Mrazavic, Vukmanavic, Koca Popovic, Kidric, Neskovic, Zlatic, Velebit, Kolishevski and the other members of this espionage group are enemies of the working class and the peasantry, enemies of the peoples of Yugoslavia.

2. This espionage group represent not the will of the peoples of Yugoslavia, but the will of the American and British imperialists, and have therefore betrayed the interests of the country and destroyed the political sovereignty and economic independence of Yugoslavia.

3. The “Communist Party of Yugoslavia,” as at present constituted, having fallen into the hands of enemies of the people, assassins and spies, has forfeited the right to be called a Communist party and is merely an apparatus for carrying out the espionage assignments of the Tito- Kardelj-Rankovic-Djilas clique.

The Information Bureau of the Communist and Workers’ Parties therefore considers that the fight against the Tito clique of hired spies and assassins is the international duty of all the Communist and Workers’ Parties.

It is the duty of the Communist and Workers’ Parties to assist in every way the Yugoslav working class and labouring peasantry who are struggling to bring back Yugoslavia to the camp of democracy and Socialism.

An essential condition for Yugoslavia’s return to the socialist camp is active struggle of the revolutionary elements both inside and outside the Yugoslav Communist Party for the resurrection of a revolutionary, genuinely Communist party of Yugoslavia, which will be faithful to Marxism-Leninism, the principles of proletarian internationalism, and which will fight for Yugoslavia’s independence from imperialism.

The forces of Yugoslavia loyal to Communism, being unable under the present savage fascist terror to come out openly against the Tito-Rankovic clique, have been compelled to resort to the same means of fighting for the cause of Communism as are employed by the Communalists in those countries where legal activity is debarred to them.

The Information Bureau expresses the firm conviction that forces will be found among the workers and peasants of Yugoslavia capable of assuring victory over the Tito-Rankovic clique of spies and restorers of the bourgeois system, that, led by the working class, the toiling people of Yugoslavia will succeed in recovering the historical gains of people’s democracy, won by the peoples of Yugoslavia at the price of heavy sacrifice and heroic struggle, and that they will take the road of building Socialism,

The Information Bureau considers it one of the most important tasks of the Communist and Workers’ Parties to enhance revolutionary vigilance in their ranks to the utmost, to expose and eject bourgeois-nationalist elements and agents of imperialism, under whatever flag they may disguise themselves.

The Information Bureau deems it necessary to intensify ideological work in the Communist and Workers’ Parties, the work of educating Communists to be faithful to proletarian internationalism, to be implacable towards all departures from the principles of Marxism-Leninism, to be faithful to people’s democracy and Socialism.
Last edited by Loz on 16 May 2012, 17:04, edited 1 time in total.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 14 Jul 2008, 20:01
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Post 16 May 2012, 16:40
Are you incapable of distinguishing serious texts from rubbish like that? I'm not going to believe a word of a text that calls Tito a fascist, because this has no basis in reality. At all. In no way could Titoism ever be compared to fascism.
"Don't know why i'm still surprised with this shit anyway." - Loz
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 06 Dec 2009, 23:17
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Post 16 May 2012, 16:49
Actually, there is something to that. Rember that this is from the late 40s/early 50s, before Titoism put on a "humane" mask.

They imprisoned literally dozens of thousands of communists (many of them veterans of the People's Liberation War) and used ex-fascist butchers to torture them in ex-fascist prisons.

In the 40s a series of rebellions against Tito and Co. broke out all over the country. These were brutally supressed.


Quote:
Taking the Hitler fascist regime as its model, the Tito clique borrowed – on orders from its American masters – not only the methods of Hitler and Goering in fascising the economy, but also their economic and political “theories”. The Hitler propaganda arsenal is the source of Titoite wisdom. They simply alter the terminology, substituting, for example, “national socialism”, the praises of which the Hitlerites had sung, with “Yugoslav national socialism”, etc.


Quote:
After capitalist trading had been officially introduced in January 1951, and after the dissolution in April 1951 of the so-called State Planning Commission and all planning organs in the Republics, the Titoites produced a whole series of draft laws about the “new system in planning and finance” which signified the open restoration of capitalism in Yugoslavia, accompanied by organisational forms, “theoretical” terminology and argumentation taken from Hitler’s so-called Four-Year economic plan.


Quote:
Capitalist exploitation of the working class in its most brutal form, that of compulsory slave labour disguised as “planned leadership of the national economy”, is now being legalised in Yugoslavia. Article 1 of the “new law” relates to two types of plans for Yugoslavia: “social plans” of the Yugoslav State, and “independent plans” of the economic organisations and federations. The social plans foresee only “basic proportions of minimum exploitation of the production capacity of the enterprises, capital investments for construction, and the average norm of the accumulation fund and social funds”. These fictitious plans will be submitted to the capitalists in the administrative councils of the enterprises and economic federations for their approval. As for the “independent plans” of the enterprises, they will be prepared by the capitalist owners themselves, regardless of general planning. In drafting these plans, conditions on the capitalist market and the demands of the U.S.-British imperialists alone, are taken into account. It is quite clear that the introduction of these “social plans” and “independent plans” is nothing but out-and-out demagogy and crude camouflage for the restoration of capitalism in Yugoslavia. Basically, these plans are but a new edition of the well-known “Deutsches Wirtschaftsrecht” (German Economic Law) which declared that the Hitler State allowed the “co-existence of State management and free enterprises in the most varied interlacing”.


Quote:
In an attempt to give a “theoretical” grounding to these laws, the Tito clique strongly combines its own petty “theoretical efforts” with the Hitlerite economic ravings. For example, the anarchic laws of capitalist economy are declared by Kidric, “Oberfuhrer of the planned economy”, to be immutable and unalterable.

Using Hitlerite terminology, this paltry slave of the monopolists places the ruthless capitalist exploitation among the “immutable economic laws”; he declares production and distribution to be “the life-stream of the law of value”, asserting that a “larger part of the surplus labour” should be assimilated by enterprises and economic federations themselves; in other words, appropriated by the capitalists.

Kidric, the new fascist “theoretician” also resorts to the theories of Right-wing Socialists, describing imperialism as “developed capitalism”, and asserting that the last phase of capitalism constitutes the first phase of Socialism. The Titoites deny the existence of classes in fascist Yugoslavia. Using the terminology of Hitler and Mussolini they seek to prove that in Yugoslavia there is no working class and no capitalists, no working peasants and kulaks, no exploited and exploiters, only “direct producers”.

The introduction of the capitalist economic “system” in Yugoslavia was enthusiastically welcomed by American and British capitalists. Wall Street and City magnates acknowledge with satisfaction that Tito Yugoslavia is a place for “profitable and safe capital investments”. Not without reason did the “Economist”, organ of the leading financial circles in Britain, comment after publication of the new Tito “laws” that the theory on which the proposals were based could be accepted with satisfaction in the West, that the new system was a genuine achievement, that its author deserved the attention and full respect of the Western democracies, etc.

The establishment of the Hitler “order” in Yugoslavia’s economy is bound up with the continued militarisation of the country. As was the case at one time in Hitler Germany, so now in Yugoslavia, the “new, planned economy” provides, above all, for building strategic roads and military airfields for rearmaments, conversion of industry to war production, and transforming the State budget into a war budget.


Quote:
The open restoration of capitalism, militarisation of the economy and its subordination to the foreign imperialists, resulted in a catastrophic fall in the standard of living of the working people in Yugoslavia. The Titoites restored not only capitalist exploitation in Yugoslavia; following the example of the Hitlerites, they resurrected feudal and even slave forms of exploitation. Four hundred and fifty thousand people were sent for compulsory labour to the mines in Bosnia, Slovenia and Croatia. About two million peasants were mobilised for forced labour. The Titoite gangsters stop at nothing. In Stip, youth found in the street were press-ganged by the Titoites for work on the Banja-Luca-Doboi Railway. In the village of Riejana, dozens of peasant houses were surrounded and the young men and women rounded-up and sent to compulsory labour.


http://www.revolutionarydemocracy.org/a ... apital.htm
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 20 Jul 2011, 15:17
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Post 16 May 2012, 19:28
The Encyclopedia of Marxism defines fascism as:
--Right Wing: Fascists are fervently against: Marxism, Socialism, Anarchism, Communism, Environmentalism; etc – in essence, they are against the progressive left in total, including moderate lefts (social democrats, etc). Fascism is an extreme right wing ideology, though it can be opportunistic.

--Nationalism: Fascism places a very strong emphasis on patriotism and nationalism. Criticism of the nation's main ideals, especially war, is lambasted as unpatriotic at best, and treason at worst. State propaganda consistently broadcasts threats of attack, while justifying pre-emptive war. Fascism invariably seeks to instill in its people the warrior mentality: to always be vigilant, wary of strangers and suspicious of foreigners.

--Hierarchy: Fascist society is ruled by a righteous leader, who is supported by an elite secret vanguard of capitalists. Hierarchy is prevalent throughout all aspects of society – every street, every workplace, every school, will have its local Hitler, part police-informer, part bureaucrat – and society is prepared for war at all times. The absolute power of the social hierarchy prevails over everything, and thus a totalitarian society is formed. Representative government is acceptable only if it can be controlled and regulated, direct democracy (e.g. Communism) is the greatest of all crimes. Any who oppose the social hierarchy of fascism will be imprisoned or executed.

--Anti-equality: Fascism loathes the principles of economic equality and disdains equality between immigrant and citizen. Some forms of fascism extend the fight against equality into other areas: gender, sexual, minority or religious rights, for example.

--Religious: Fascism contains a strong amount of reactionary religious beliefs, harking back to times when religion was strict, potent, and pure. Nearly all Fascist societies are Christian, and are supported by Catholic and Protestant churches.

--Capitalist: Fascism does not require revolution to exist in capitalist society: fascists can be elected into office (though their disdain for elections usually means manipulation of the electoral system). They view parliamentary and congressional systems of government to be inefficient and weak, and will do their best to minimize its power over their policy agenda. Fascism exhibits the worst kind of capitalism where corporate power is absolute, and all vestiges of workers' rights are destroyed.

--War: Fascism is capitalism at the stage of impotent imperialism. War can create markets that would not otherwise exist by wreaking massive devastation on a society, which then requires reconstruction! Fascism can thus "liberate" the survivors, provide huge loans to that society so fascist corporations can begin the process of rebuilding.

--Voluntarist Ideology: Fascism adopts a certain kind of “voluntarism;” they believe that an act of will, if sufficiently powerful, can make something true. Thus all sorts of ideas about racial inferiority, historical destiny, even physical science, are supported by means of violence, in the belief that they can be made true. It is this sense that Fascism is subjectivist.

--Anti-Modern: Fascism loathes all kinds of modernism, especially creativity in the arts, whether acting as a mirror for life (where it does not conform to the Fascist ideal), or expressing deviant or innovative points of view. Fascism invariably burns books and victimises artists, and artists which do not promote the fascists ideals are seen as “decadent.” Fascism is hostile to broad learning and interest in other cultures, since such pursuits threaten the dominance of fascist myths. The peddling of conspiracy theories is usually substituted for the objective study of history.

For each of those points, please provide an example of something Tito did to fit that description.
Loz
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 06 Dec 2009, 23:17
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Post 16 May 2012, 20:39
Your encyclopedia source is wrong on at least one point.

Quote:
Fascism loathes all kinds of modernism, especially creativity in the arts, whether acting as a mirror for life (where it does not conform to the Fascist ideal)

What? Italian Futurism was almost 100% Fascist and famous for its militarism and fascination with machines and so on.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filippo_Tommaso_Marinetti

Anyway, Dimitrov wrote that ...The development of fascism, and the fascist dictatorship itself, assume different forms in different countries, according to historical, social and economic conditions and to the national peculiarities, and the international position of the given country.

It's obvious that the dictatorship of Tito's clique could not have been the same as Franco's or Mussolini's dictatorship. Yugoslavia was a peculiar case. Of course that Tito and Co. could not have thrown their "socialist" masks away just like that, after all, Western Imperialism intended to use Yugoslavia as a bait ("socialism with a human face" and so on) for all other countries of People's Democracy to come over to the camp of world imperialism.

Therefore:
But whatever the masks that fascism adopts, whatever the forms in which it presents itself, whatever the ways by which it comes to power

Fascism is a most ferocious attack by capital on the mass of the working people - check
Fascism is unbridled chauvinism and predatory war - check ( the repressions on Kosovo and predatory aspirations towards Albania)
Fascism is rabid reaction and counter-revolution - check
Fascism is the most vicious enemy of the working class and of all working people - check
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Post 16 May 2012, 20:43
Titoism is the most vicious enemy of the working class and of all working people?
"Don't know why i'm still surprised with this shit anyway." - Loz
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 06 Dec 2009, 23:17
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Post 16 May 2012, 20:45
Yes, even worse than USA Imperialism. Why? Because at least you know who you're dealing with in the case of US. But a "socialist" Fifth Column is in a way more perfidious and more dangerous.

Of course,all this may sound a bit weird, but was Spanish Fascism the biggest enemy of the worldwide working classes back in, say, 1948? Definitely not, but it was fascism nevertheless.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 06 Dec 2009, 23:17
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Post 16 May 2012, 21:06
But, to address Khlib's points.

Quote:
--Right Wing: Fascists are fervently against: Marxism, Socialism, Anarchism, Communism, Environmentalism; etc – in essence, they are against the progressive left in total, including moderate lefts (social democrats, etc). Fascism is an extreme right wing ideology, though it can be opportunistic.

Check. EVERY popular Communist party in the world denounced the Yugoslav one in 1948.

Quote:
Nationalism: Fascism places a very strong emphasis on patriotism and nationalism. Criticism of the nation's main ideals, especially war, is lambasted as unpatriotic at best, and treason at worst. State propaganda consistently broadcasts threats of attack, while justifying pre-emptive war. Fascism invariably seeks to instill in its people the warrior mentality: to always be vigilant, wary of strangers and suspicious of foreigners.

Check on almost all points.
Criticism of the "main ideals" got you sent to prison even in the 80s, not to mention the 40s.
State propaganda consistently, for 40 years, broadcasted threats of attack (Jugoslavija je jež...neprijatelj nikada ne spava) and so on.
In the 40s people sometimes ended up in camps just for singing "Katyusha" or some other popular Russian songs!

Quote:
Hierarchy: Fascist society is ruled by a righteous leader, who is supported by an elite secret vanguard of capitalists. Hierarchy is prevalent throughout all aspects of society – every street, every workplace, every school, will have its local Hitler, part police-informer, part bureaucrat – and society is prepared for war at all times. The absolute power of the social hierarchy prevails over everything, and thus a totalitarian society is formed. Representative government is acceptable only if it can be controlled and regulated, direct democracy (e.g. Communism) is the greatest of all crimes. Any who oppose the social hierarchy of fascism will be imprisoned or executed.

Check on everything.

Quote:
--Anti-equality: Fascism loathes the principles of economic equality and disdains equality between immigrant and citizen. Some forms of fascism extend the fight against equality into other areas: gender, sexual, minority or religious rights, for example.

Quite correct.
The economic inequalities in Yugoslavia were notorious.

Quote:
--Capitalist: Fascism does not require revolution to exist in capitalist society: fascists can be elected into office (though their disdain for elections usually means manipulation of the electoral system). They view parliamentary and congressional systems of government to be inefficient and weak, and will do their best to minimize its power over their policy agenda. Fascism exhibits the worst kind of capitalism where corporate power is absolute, and all vestiges of workers' rights are destroyed.

I'm not sure on this one.

Quote:
--War: Fascism is capitalism at the stage of impotent imperialism. War can create markets that would not otherwise exist by wreaking massive devastation on a society, which then requires reconstruction! Fascism can thus "liberate" the survivors, provide huge loans to that society so fascist corporations can begin the process of rebuilding.

Yugoslavia was very militarized (and Tito tried to take over Albania) however this one doesn't really fit.

Quote:
--Anti-Modern: Fascism loathes all kinds of modernism, especially creativity in the arts, whether acting as a mirror for life (where it does not conform to the Fascist ideal), or expressing deviant or innovative points of view. Fascism invariably burns books and victimises artists, and artists which do not promote the fascists ideals are seen as “decadent.” Fascism is hostile to broad learning and interest in other cultures, since such pursuits threaten the dominance of fascist myths. The peddling of conspiracy theories is usually substituted for the objective study of history.

This one doesn't fit either but being a Marxist could get you killed in Yugoslavia.

Indeed, Belgrade and Zagreb and Ljubljana and so on were the only places in post-war Europe, except Madrid, Lisabon and Athens where carrying a Soviet flag or a portait of Stalin could get you imprisoned and killed by the authorities.

EDIT: But i think that most of these "criteria" are actually rather unreliable when describing what fascism really is ,that is, what it looks like in practice.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 14 Jul 2008, 20:01
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Post 16 May 2012, 21:41
Quote:
I'm not sure on this one.


But this is the main one. Fascism is a capitalist state gone terrorist. It exists to protect monopoly capital with extreme violence as a last resort. You can't possibly think this was the case in Yugoslavia.
"Don't know why i'm still surprised with this shit anyway." - Loz
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 06 Dec 2009, 23:17
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Post 16 May 2012, 21:44
Quote:
You can't possibly think this was the case in Yugoslavia.

I can. Tito's clique waged a terrorist war against the people to protect the interests of national-capitalists ("managers" of "nationalized" factories and so on) and military oligarchy, kulaks and foreign investments.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 20 Jul 2011, 15:17
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Post 16 May 2012, 21:49
A terrorist war, you say?
Loz
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 06 Dec 2009, 23:17
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Post 16 May 2012, 22:25
Yes, they terrorised people in Kordun and Banija and elsewhere where risings happened, in addition to the hunt for communists all over the country. Not to mention what Ranković did on Kosovo.
JAM
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 09 Mar 2012, 02:37
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Post 16 May 2012, 22:46
I don't know how much accurate is this information but if it's true it completely discredit Tito's Regime:

"The Tito clique admits that although the law allows private owners to employ a maximum of five workers each, there are some who employ ten or twenty times as many and even some who employ "five to six hundred workers".[1] And the annual turnover of some private enterprises is over 100 million dinars.[2]

From the profits made by these entrepreneurs, one can see that they are one hundred per cent capitalists. Svet reported on December 8, 1961 that "the net income of some private handicraftsmen reaches one million dinars per month", and the Belgrade Vecernje novosti said on December 20, 1961 that in Belgrade "last year 116 owners of private enterprises each received an income of more than 10 million dinars". Some entrepreneurs "received an income of about 70 million dinars" in one year, which is nearly U.S.$100,000 according to the official rate of exchange.

[2] Vesnik u sredu, December 27, 1961."
"If I could control Hollywood, I could control the world." -Joseph Stalin
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 08 Aug 2011, 22:59
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Post 20 May 2012, 00:25
Tito's Yugoslavia can be compared to other socialist states just as much as a BMW can be compared in speed with a handicapped turtle.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Jul 2012, 06:55
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Post 10 Jul 2012, 07:12
The issue with Titoism is that it is inherently anti-Marxist. For example, here are a few quotes: " “Like our Democratic Cambodia, Yugoslavia is a non-aligned country which has adhered to the position of preserving independence. Friendship between our two countries is therefore based on the same principle. We have always esteemed and respected Comrade President Tito and the friendly Yugoslav people. Comrade President Tito and the Yugoslav people have always supported and helped us. We have sympathy for them and wish to express our thanks to Comrade President Tito and the friendly Yugoslav people.” (Pol Pot, quoted in Journal of Contemporary Asia Vol. 8 No. 3, 1978. p. 413.)
“We Jugoslavs have discarded classic deviations between revolutionary and evolutionary socialism. History has erased such a distinction. Life now pushes toward the evolutionary progress… I think that even in the United States there is a tendency toward socialism. A big change began with your New Deal and your economy retains many of its features. For example, state intervention in the economy is much larger.” (Tito, quoted in Cyrus Leo Sulzberger. The Last of the Giants. New York: Macmillan. 1970. p. 270.)
Also, a great work on Titoite revisionism would be Yugoslav "Self-Administration"-Capitalist Theory and Practice, by Enver Hoxha. Although, if I'm not mistaken that was previously recommended.

http://espressostalinist.wordpress.com/ ... m/titoism/
"Dialectical materialism works like cocaine, let's say. If you sniff it once or twice, it may not change your life. If you use it day after day, though, it will make you into an addict, a different man." -Nicolae Ceauşescu
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 08 Aug 2011, 22:59
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Post 11 Jul 2012, 17:03
Zhelovski wrote:
The issue with Titoism is that it is inherently anti-Marxist.


If I was forced to choose between a "theoretical marxist state" or "self-managing socialist state" I'd go for the latter. No contest. The quality of living was way higher in SFRY than in "theoretical marxist countries".
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