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 31 Mar 2012, 15:31
What's your opinion of Hoxha? Was he good or bad for Albania?
He did some good things for Albania like electrifying the country and ending backwards feudal customs like blood feud, which returned after the fall of communism, but also he did some negative things like isolating his country, which failed to sufficiently raise living standards and alienating the country by pursuing aggressive state atheism. Perhaps, I should vote for neutral because although he was the best leader in Albanian history, he could've done a far better job. 31 Mar 2012, 18:35
Quote: Standards of living rose significantly (Albania had a life expectancy higher than Yugoslavia's for example) as much as it was possible. And adhering to Marxism-Leninism, not state atheism, was the reason why the country was "alienated". Last edited by Loz on 01 Apr 2012, 03:11, edited 1 time in total.
31 Mar 2012, 20:08
No the country was alienated because Hoxha wanted to be a famous leader like Tito (who he jealously despised) or Mao. The achievements of Albania, which for a socialist country are only better than Romanian and Cambodian achievements, were built in spite of Hoxha's ever shifting alliances.
Voted negative because he still could have been worse.  31 Mar 2012, 20:25
Quote: Where are you getting this from? Substantiate. Hoxha never claimed , unlike those two, that he was somehow more "original," independent-minded" etc... his whole life he stood for and defended Marxism-Leninism and not some Mao-Zedong thought or "Titoism". Last edited by Loz on 01 Apr 2012, 03:11, edited 1 time in total.
31 Mar 2012, 20:38
Nvm
Soviet cogitations: 2294
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Aug 2010, 14:21 Party Bureaucrat 31 Mar 2012, 21:20
I voted neutral. I discussed with someone from Albania a few days ago, and he said that there was some good things.
 "Fishing is part of agriculture" Gred "Loz, you are like me" Yami "I am one of the better read Marxists on this site" Gred
Soviet cogitations: 113
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 15 Jul 2009, 21:32 Ideology: Democratic Socialism Pioneer 31 Mar 2012, 21:28
Voted positive. I don't know much about him, but I do like his state atheism.
01 Apr 2012, 12:14
I read his biography in Wikipedia. Seems ok to me. No lurid details of bombings of public places to drive a wedge between political parties like our very own Josee Maria Sison..
01 Apr 2012, 18:51
I voted 'Very Negative'. Firstly, the extremely orthodox 'Marxism-Leninism' which he consistently talked about is something for political philosophers, not for leaders of countries whose people need to eat. The history of how this little country separated itself first from the Eastern Bloc, and then from China is almost mind-boggling in its irrationality. Secondly, as someone who does not accept the Maoist or orthodox Stalinist conception of the USSR post 1953 as 'revisionist', 'state-capitalist' or 'social imperialist', I critique Hoxha on that level, arguing that his ideological conceptions were based more in the need to preserve his power base (fighting against those elements that might seek to bring Albania closer to Yugoslavia or the USSR) than in real and justifiable ideological differences. Finally, out of his political/philosophical decisions and subsequent isolationism came the socioeconomic realities that affected the population in a negative way, which is why as a historical figure Hoxha is a tragic figure, rather than a comedic one.
"The thing about capitalism is that it sounds awful on paper and is horrendous in practice. Communism sounds wonderful on paper and when it was put into practice it was done pretty well for what they had to work with." -MiG
02 Apr 2012, 10:34
Quote: That "ML for political philosophers" saved Albania from becoming a puppet of the revisionist USSR and guided the whole nation towards communism while most other E.European countries saw their masses clearly become disillusioned with or at best not-interested (if not actively opposed to, as in Poland) in actually building socialism. Quote: Yes, Hoxha could have sold out and become another Todor Zhivkov or... Husak. Instead he fought for Marxism. I don't see much irrationality in all this. Quote: There may be some truth to this, but Albania wasn't China trying to become the "boss" of world communism or whatever. There were crucial and very real differences between Marxism-Leninism and Khruschovite/Brezhevite revisionism. The PL of Albania produced much material on all this. Quote: Albania could have abandoned Marxism for Soviet Zaporozhetses and GDR cameras, instead they didn't. And Bulgaria for example (not to mention Romania in the 80s) or ,especially, SFRY's Kosovo weren't that much ahead of Albania anyway. 17 Apr 2012, 13:02
Positive. He could develop Albania, and also, I admire his consistency to defend "genuine Marxism-Leninism"
Inggris Kita Linggis, Amerika Kita Setrika ! -Sukarno-
 12 Feb 2014, 00:58
The only HOxha i have respect for is this one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QS9fYnjEccg 12 Feb 2014, 14:37
Voted very negative as he was an evil dictator that put back the cause of socialism.
14 Feb 2014, 01:53
Yami wrote: So, there are at least 5 other S-E forum members who agree with us. 14 Feb 2014, 14:56
Voted positive because stalinism is better than feudalism.
"Don't know why i'm still surprised with this shit anyway." - Loz
Soviet cogitations: 12389
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 18 Apr 2010, 04:44 Ideology: None Philosophized 14 Feb 2014, 18:23
After some thought, I had to go with "Other". Hoxha's bizarre sectarianism and isolationism didn't move the country out of the Seljuk darkness that has lain over this postage stamp principality since the fall of the Byzantines. On the other hand, he did manage to leave the place pretty much exactly as it was before he took control (plus the addition of a few million pill boxes). Considering that no progress was made in either direction, it's an eminent case of "Other".
Miss Strangelove: "You feed giants laxatives so goblins can mine their poop before the gnomes get to it."
14 Feb 2014, 22:01
Mabool wrote: Nazism is way better than prehistoric society, too. Would you choose nazism then, too? 14 Feb 2014, 23:13
Comrade Gulper wrote:This is an asinine and borderline racist post. "Postage stamp principality." "Seljuk." Literally every book which discusses in some detail the economy of the 1950s-80s will point out the gains the country made. According to a Yugoslav source, "impressive results have been achieved in industrial growth. By 1950, industrial output had already more than quadrupled compared with the pre-war level and continued to grow at a rate of 22.8 per cent between 1951 and 1955, at 17 per cent between 1955 and 1960, at 6.8 per cent between 1961 and 1965, and at 12.7 per cent between 1966 and 1970." (Marmullaku, Albania and the Albanians, 1974, p. 100.) And, as I've pointed out elsewhere, Albania got its first University in 1957. The country also went from having a negligible production of electricity to being able to export electricity to Yugoslavia. EdvardK wrote:You seem to have forgotten that the Nazis occupied Albania, and that their occupation had no problem bringing into the ranks of collaborators feudal elements and the clergy.
Soviet cogitations: 12389
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 18 Apr 2010, 04:44 Ideology: None Philosophized 15 Feb 2014, 01:16
I see Ismail got mad at me for making fun of Enver Hoxha and the glorious state of Albania. I don't harbor any racist attitudes toward Albanians (I think EdvardK is in charge of that department!). But I certainly don't take Albania very seriously. Honestly, with 3 million people to its name, it seems more like the sort of place that would function best as a backwater department of some larger state (which is exactly what it was under the Byzantines and the Seljuks).
Miss Strangelove: "You feed giants laxatives so goblins can mine their poop before the gnomes get to it."
15 Feb 2014, 02:22
Comrade Gulper wrote:Making patently false claims is not making fun of something. |
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