Soviet-Empire.com U.S.S.R. and communism historical discussion.
[ Active ]
[ Login ]
Log-in to remove these advertisements.

"OCCUPY X" Movements

POST REPLY

Do you support the "Occupy X" movement(s)?

Yes
34
77%
No
6
14%
Other (Please elaborate)
4
9%
 
Total votes : 44
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 2507
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 09 May 2004, 21:17
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Party Bureaucrat
Post 31 Oct 2011, 17:54
Do you support these? Why or why not?

I currently have mixed-bag feelings on them. I was ecstatic when they first popped up on Wall Street, but I had my concerns, which seem to be coming true by the day; politicians and individuals who very much are in the 1% spectrum are "showing their support." Celebrities like Michael Moore and Diane Sawyer, and then even politicians on the state and federal level. Individuals with no real knowledge of the true plight of the proletariat and who have more wealth than they know what to do with.

It will be interesting to watch it progress as time goes by. I'm hoping it doesn't devolve.

...As the capitalists have already found out how to capitalize on it.

http://nation.foxnews.com/mtv/2011/10/2 ... ality-show
[+-]
Soviet cogitations: 1020
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 20 Jul 2011, 15:17
Party Member
Post 31 Oct 2011, 18:50
I have been very involved with the Occupy Detroit movement, and while I think it's better than nothing, I have several concerns.
1. Most of our demands are social democratic in nature, aimed at creating "capitalism with a human face," and not really questioning the capitalist system itself. Because we are a group composed of people with many different political beliefs, from progressive moderates to college liberals to anarchists, our demands usually represent the "lowest common denominator," i.e., the least radical demands that we can all agree on.
2. Related to the above, direct democracy does not work well with large groups of people. At our General Assemblies, everyone is given a chance to speak. Therefore, a lot of the decision-making amounts to filibustering, with a few tenacious and tireless individuals arguing for so long against a proposal that we all finally just give in and dismiss it because we want to go home.
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 260
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 24 Oct 2011, 08:59
Ideology: Other
Komsomol
Post 31 Oct 2011, 19:32
I support the Occupy movement and I hope that the people can deny the support of politicians (the President is a bit of an anomaly with it, he is a politician, but he is also [in regard to the electoral process currently in place] elected and Executive representative of the American People, so his support could be accepted but would be on eggshells in my opinion) and certainly deny the support from most celebrities. Sean Penn might be one exception though.

I feel that independent writers, artists and actors could lend support, since most independent work is done by commission. But would not want to see them in the streets with the other protesters, that would be a waste of their talent on a cause they support. They would have the means to produce material to bring more workers to the protests.

I am concerned that the politicians and media will twist the movement into a more capitalist movement or kill it entirely. But I am amused at the reaction of the cities where the police have acted very violently towards protesters, especially Oakland, they went into 'damage control' mode after that veteran was purposely hit.

I feel it is only a matter of time before the gutters of the streets start to flow with the blood of protesters and police. But by that time, almost all of the lower class will be with the movement. But that is just how I feel.
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 5153
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 08 Nov 2007, 06:31
Embalmed
Post 31 Oct 2011, 20:10
The protestors have already rejected the democrats and their praises and the republicans have already picked a side. OWS will struggle to set a direction because of the divides between its reformist wing and its revolutionary wing, but it's no reason to 'lose faith'. So far it's created an atmosphere for an independent left to be fostered and general dissatisfaction with the system to be expressed, to the horror of america's right wing. That's a lot to appreciate after years of the same old bullshit.
Image
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 10771
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 21 Dec 2004, 23:53
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Philosophized
Post 01 Nov 2011, 02:39
Support. 99% of the population pissed off at the wealthy 1% economic elite and how the government is handling the current crisis? Damn good organizing oppurtunity for Marxists.

I've been involved with Occupy Philly sinces it started. Unlike most cities we haven't faced large scale police brutality and attempted evictions; however, we are currently camped out where the holiday town is supposed to be for November/December. I'd suspect that "support" from the mayor and police stop. We've also gotten Eric Cantor (U.S. House Majority Leader), Bill Clinton and the mayor to cancel speaking events because of protests.


The movement is evolving like all mass movements. When OWS started few would've suspected it to grow, despite the failing systems of capitalism. After the murder of Troy Davis that increased the militancy of OWS that lead to the first mass arrest in NYC, the movement has matured. While there are still strong social-democratic trends within the movement, I have not seen them growing. The only people campaigning for the Democratic Parties is the labor movement and I haven't seen any sucess there. I haven't seen any liberal politicians at Occupy Philly since Day 2.

The general assemblies can be painfully long and ineffective, *cough* vangaurd party *cough*, but it does give the radicals a soap box for hundreds of people who are sympathetic to our ideas.
Image

"By what standard of morality can the violence used by a slave to break his chains be considered the same as the violence of a slave master?" - Walter Rodney
Soviet cogitations: 2051
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 24 Jun 2011, 08:37
Party Bureaucrat
Post 01 Nov 2011, 03:29
I don't see much reason to be against them. It won't result in socialism today but it will hopefully help realize class awareness, and in the ultimate end, result in paving the way for better things.
Soviet America is Free America!

Under communism, there is no freedom; you are not free to live in poverty, be homeless, to be without an education, to starve, or to be without a job
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 3711
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Jul 2006, 04:49
Ideology: Juche
Old Bolshevik
Post 01 Nov 2011, 03:49
Of course I support these movements. I think that a left-wing turn in Politics should be embraced. Sure, there might be quite a few reformists in that movement, but the Bolsheviks started out as a radical wing of the Russian Social-Democratic movement did it not?
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 4953
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 13 Feb 2008, 15:25
Ideology: Other Leftist
Politburo
Post 01 Nov 2011, 04:58
The only trouble is that right wing factions can smother the radical wing of Soc dem movements and parties, put it's a fair point. I don't like or trust Western social democracy, but that doesn't describe these movements entirely. As RR said, they are a good organising opportunity for genuine leftists.
[+-]
Soviet cogitations: 1020
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 20 Jul 2011, 15:17
Party Member
Post 01 Nov 2011, 05:38
RED REBEL: did I talk to you on the phone tonight? I was on a conference call for Occupy Detroit with like 100 other Occupy movements, and I think it was set up by Occupy Philly.
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 9816
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 19 Apr 2008, 03:25
Embalmed
Post 01 Nov 2011, 14:16
Yeah I support the movements. I follow them closely and watch the live stream feeds sometimes. Me and a couple of friends are going down to Occupy Wall Street this weekend for the 5th of November.
Once capitalists know we can release the Kraken, they'll back down and obey our demands for sure.
_Comrade Gulper
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 6211
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 04 Aug 2004, 20:49
Ideology: Democratic Socialism
Embalmed
Post 01 Nov 2011, 17:40
Misuzu wrote:
but the Bolsheviks started out as a radical wing of the Russian Social-Democratic movement did it not?


No, the Mensheviks split from the Bolsheviks subsequently after a poll on whether or not "contacts", to use a phrase used to describe loose associates of a party, should be considered a major force in the party, or be entrusted with carrying out serious business. The Bolsheviks said no, the Mensheviks said yes. It was the straw that broke the camel's back, there were underlying ideological schisms which had lain stress on the organisations - they are to be noted too, but they didn't matter until 1917 anyway - no factional schisms really matter until guns and the entire population are involved and that is an oft neglected fact.

I don't think they'll succeed, there's no positive image of what could be done being expressed by these people, which is a shame. They have a chance, they have the media coverage day and night, yet they still remain a broad church. If they grow in strength, they will probably falter and end up being pisspoor revolutionaries like the students in the 1960s who thought they could sustain a spontaneous permanent revolution - only under a different guise. They better not fail though, there's a cast iron opportunity here.
I also get annoyed hearing especially Trots from the 2 main Trot parties in the UK saying they should all adopt dem-centralism as a model for operation - yeah, only if they were in charge, as if often the case with them.
Image

"Phil Spector is haunting Europe" -Dr. Karl H. Marx
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 4796
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 24 Feb 2004, 11:09
Ideology: Other Leftist
Central Committee
Post 02 Nov 2011, 04:34
khlib wrote:
with a few tenacious and tireless individuals arguing for so long against a proposal that we all finally just give in and dismiss it because we want to go home.


This is why I hate democracy. It is essentially a contest of who can be the loudest and most obnoxious and most domineering.

Oh, And of course I support these groups in general.
Soviet cogitations: 2
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Nov 2011, 01:11
Ideology: Democratic Socialism
New Comrade (Say hi & be nice to me!)
Post 10 Nov 2011, 01:20
The Occupy movement is better than nothing, but needs teeth. When real results occur as a result of concrete actions, then I will believe,
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 3765
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 11 Nov 2009, 07:13
Ideology: Other Leftist
Politburo
Post 11 Nov 2011, 21:21
This Article most accurately defines my view on the situation. I think that asking for more of the pie is not going to end imperialism or capitalism. But it's important for the discourse it is creating.
Image
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 291
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 18 Nov 2011, 06:40
Komsomol
Post 18 Nov 2011, 18:55
I can't agree with this...

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2011/11/good-grief-protesters-assigned-to-stand-guard-at-ows-rape-free-zone/

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/zuccotti_park_big_top_ilBy4VfYIwDGt2I1rM33vL

These people are criminals and are not civilized. There should not have to be 'rape free zones.' For the record, if I ever saw a rape in progress, I would flat out KILL the rapist for assaulting the victim.

The USSR was the first nation in the world to have women's emancipation. They also instituted International Women's day. Think about that and tell me... Do you still support these Occupy thugs???
Image
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 3765
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 11 Nov 2009, 07:13
Ideology: Other Leftist
Politburo
Post 18 Nov 2011, 18:59
So, one small marginalized group of opportunists ruins an entire social movement for you? There are fringe groups and douchebags in every single movement.
Image
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 291
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 18 Nov 2011, 06:40
Komsomol
Post 18 Nov 2011, 19:04
Well, yes... True. I don't know, I was excited about the movement at first. I wanted to see the Fed and the 'too big to fail's have to be held accountable, but it seems that they don't have coherent demands. They seem to be protesting for the sake of protesting. If they got a list of demands together and focused on taking down the Fed and enacting justice on Wall Street's corruption, they'd gain a lot of support, including mine.

More of the same... Posting these because this is the first time I myself have seen these links. A friend brought these to my attention this morning...

Great point you bring up though. There are indeed criminals in every group.


http://www.frugal-cafe.com/public_html/frugal-blog/frugal-cafe-blogzone/2011/11/09/occupy-wall-street-violence-crimes-rapes-depravity-vandalism-idiocy-it-just-keeps-getting-bigger-uglier-keeps-getting-worse-video/

http://hotair.com/archives/2011/11/16/awww-protests-featuring-rape-free-zones-somehow-less-popular-than-the-tea-party/

Really, nothing pisses me off more than violence and abuse toward women & children...
Image
Soviet cogitations: 1
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 28 Aug 2011, 07:18
Ideology: Trotskyism
New Comrade (Say hi & be nice to me!)
Post 12 Mar 2012, 19:36
I said other. Although I support criticism of and attacks on inequality, I believe the Occupy movement is primarily a reformist and activist one--not a revolutionary movement. The relative lack of coherency makes me recall the words of Lenin: "Without revolutionary theory, there can be no revolutionary movement."
Alternative Display:
Mobile view
More Forums: The History Forum. The UK Politics Forum.
© 2000- Soviet-Empire.com. Privacy.