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Legalization of incest?

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Should incest,even among closest relatives,be legalized?

Yes
18
25%
Other/Indecisive
12
17%
No
42
58%
 
Total votes : 72
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Soviet cogitations: 4764
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 20 Jul 2007, 06:59
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Forum Commissar
Post 15 Oct 2010, 22:48
So they can live as a couple, but they have to wear rubbers? How would you enforce such a thing?

I don't think passing this kind of law would be very accepted, and it would only marginalize those proposing it. Perhaps very much in the future, when property relations change and so do families.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Sep 2006, 22:05
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Philosophized
Post 15 Oct 2010, 22:54
The simple solution is to have no laws on sexual activity. We should excise all of these sex laws. And things like sexual abuse should become more an issue of abuse, that is abuse of a sexual nature rather than sexual abuse.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 30 Mar 2010, 01:20
Ideology: None
Forum Commissar
Post 16 Oct 2010, 01:10
The history of the Roman Empire would have been much less interesting without incest and other hobbies.
Assuming that the problem of consent has been resolved and that any genetic problems have been solved with contraceptives (...etc) I don't see a problem.
The issue of abuse, seem to be centred on the problem of Consent.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 02 Dec 2010, 02:16
Pioneer
Post 14 Dec 2010, 00:36
As long as the genetics can be controlled without genetic detereoration I accept it but since we lack that techno than no
"Shoot, coward, you are only going to kill a man"
Ernesto "Che" Guevara
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 05 Dec 2010, 16:17
Komsomol
Post 20 Dec 2010, 06:23
Mabool wrote:
Yes, of course. Everything should be allowed if it harms nobody.


This.

I voted 'Yes'. Incest is only harmful when one of the individuals is either too young to emtionally handle a sexual relationship or forced into a sexual relationship. Inbreeding is harmful and should not be legalized.

Also, I think it much more communistic to be open-minded and accepting of such things, rather than just condemning them for being 'bad'.

Lol, I'm doing philosophy at school in 2011, I want to do an assignement titled, "Things that are supposedly immoral, but aren't that bad when you think about them logically".
Free love, not trade!
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Soviet cogitations: 209
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 11 Dec 2010, 00:06
Ideology: Juche
Pioneer
Post 20 Dec 2010, 13:43
No offence to the guy who made this theme but its disgusting I cant beleive anyone would even think about it. Im afraid after the revolution its off to the Gulag for anything like that. Hopfully after the revolution all kinds of sexull misconduct will be punishable by life time hard labour, castration or death.
Comrades the human race is evolving. We are not going to be around for ever. Sexual perversion is a very human disease it does not need pro longing. If a guy wants to wear womens clothing fine but in a camp with others like you where you will work for the benefit of society.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 14 Jul 2008, 20:01
Ideology: Trotskyism
Philosophized
Post 20 Dec 2010, 13:57
Quote:
Lol, I'm doing philosophy at school in 2011, I want to do an assignement titled, "Things that are supposedly immoral, but aren't that bad when you think about them logically".


This is an awesome idea.

Quote:
Hopfully after the revolution all kinds of sexull misconduct will be punishable by life time hard labour, castration or death.


No.

Quote:
If a guy wants to wear womens clothing fine but in a camp with others like you where you will work for the benefit of society.


Ridiculous. Why has a man who wears so-called "women's clothing" (a sexist concept in itself unless we're talking about bras) less right to remain in society than a man who wears pants?
"Don't know why i'm still surprised with this shit anyway." - Loz
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 11 Dec 2010, 00:06
Ideology: Juche
Pioneer
Post 20 Dec 2010, 14:09
Well im just intollerant. I dont really believe "in a place in society" in the Socialist state you should conform or f*ck off. Were building something so much more than individual rights, its a whole new epoch in history! Sorry thats what I think.
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Thier is such a party!"
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Lenin,Ленин
Soviet cogitations: 10005
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 14 Jul 2008, 20:01
Ideology: Trotskyism
Philosophized
Post 20 Dec 2010, 14:11
Quote:
in the Socialist state you should conform or f*ck off.


Why?
"Don't know why i'm still surprised with this shit anyway." - Loz
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 11 Dec 2010, 00:06
Ideology: Juche
Pioneer
Post 20 Dec 2010, 14:20
Youve had your revolution-your state is under siege by capitalist powers. Theres a food crisis and the country is in chaos. Revolution is not a nice thing its a necessary thing. The last thing your going to worry about is some tranny whos upsetting the no doubt traditionaly mined people of the area.
Im afraid theres no time to legislate for such people. If he or she or what ever cant be satisfied by the working for peoples power then we cant have time for he she or what ever.
Transexuality and other sexual perversions are signs of worker alienation of the capitalist system. If a human is so dissatsified with who he is as to not undertand his own sexuallity then what use would he be in Socialism?
In real Socialism there is no worker alienation hence no depression, sole searching and what not.
Thats all im want to say on the matter. Im sorry if I look like a Stalinist bigot but thats what I am.
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Thier is such a party!"
"Есть такая партия!"
Lenin,Ленин
Soviet cogitations: 10005
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 14 Jul 2008, 20:01
Ideology: Trotskyism
Philosophized
Post 20 Dec 2010, 14:26
Quote:
Im afraid theres no time to legislate for such people.


But there is time to prosecute them for being different?
"Don't know why i'm still surprised with this shit anyway." - Loz
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 11 Dec 2010, 00:06
Ideology: Juche
Pioneer
Post 20 Dec 2010, 14:41
Not for being different but for being counter revolutionary. There will always be time for that))))))))
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Thier is such a party!"
"Есть такая партия!"
Lenin,Ленин
Soviet cogitations: 10005
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 14 Jul 2008, 20:01
Ideology: Trotskyism
Philosophized
Post 20 Dec 2010, 14:42
How are they counter-revolutionary? Is a party cadre less effective if he likes to wear thongs?
"Don't know why i'm still surprised with this shit anyway." - Loz
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Soviet cogitations: 209
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 11 Dec 2010, 00:06
Ideology: Juche
Pioneer
Post 20 Dec 2010, 14:51
Like I said capitalism has aliented the person so much that they dont even know if they are a guy or a girl. The person is in no fit state to hold a position of autrhority. I believe the party has to be a moral organ to. Im not a great believer in pemissiveness. I believe it degenerates the human being and what it means to be a man or a woman. The Bolshevik party after the revolution spent an awful lot of time trying to teach the mostly illiterate masses of the former Russian empire not to swear in public or spit on trains. I think this sort or moral work is great. Were making a new man.Those that are stuck in the old capitalist ways can die with them.
Thats what I think anyway.
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Thier is such a party!"
"Есть такая партия!"
Lenin,Ленин
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Soviet cogitations: 9306
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 02 Mar 2004, 15:19
Ideology: Other Leftist
Old Bolshevik
Post 20 Dec 2010, 15:54
The Bolshevik government redefined marriage to include more than just the man/woman variety. In a surprising number of ways they were a progressive moral force, as opposed to some crazy 'lets make everyone the same' mentality you are supporting.

Really its that kind of strict moral conservatism that makes communists look like anti-progressives.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 05 Dec 2010, 16:17
Komsomol
Post 20 Dec 2010, 16:43
Iron Felix wrote:
No offence to the guy who made this theme but its disgusting I cant beleive anyone would even think about it.
I think about this kind of thing all the time, because it's untypical and interesting.

Quote:
Im afraid after the revolution its off to the Gulag for anything like that. Hopfully after the revolution all kinds of sexull misconduct will be punishable by life time hard labour, castration or death. Sexual perversion is a very human disease it does not need pro longing. If a guy wants to wear womens clothing fine but in a camp with others like you where you will work for the benefit of society.

That's a very fascist thing to say
It actually sounds like your advocating oppression and discrimination.

Iron Felix wrote:
I dont really believe "in a place in society" in the Socialist state you should conform or f*ck off.

How could you even say such a thing? The whole concept of Socialism is equality and acceptance of all people no matter their differences. What you're advocating is pretty much shallow capitalism.

Iron Felix wrote:
Youve had your revolution-your state is under siege by capitalist powers. Theres a food crisis and the country is in chaos. Revolution is not a nice thing its a necessary thing. The last thing your going to worry about is some tranny whos upsetting the no doubt traditionaly mined people of the area. Im afraid theres no time to legislate for such people.

Socialism isn't just against class oppression, it is against racism, sexism, homophobia or any kind of oppression or discrimination. In fact, I'd advocate things like experimenting with your own sexuality, wearing alternative fashion, etc in a communist state, not just to make society more colourful, but to open people's minds and free them from the conservative "pure" expectations of capitalism. Also, a person's sexuality is their own private matter, not the state's. What you're advocating is the abolition of personal freedom here.

Quote:
If he or she or what ever cant be satisfied by the working for peoples power then we cant have time for he she or what ever. Transexuality and other sexual perversions are signs of worker alienation of the capitalist system. If a human is so dissatsified with who he is as to not undertand his own sexuallity then what use would he be in Socialism? In real Socialism there is no worker alienation hence no depression, sole searching and what not.
The concept that liberal sexuality is considered "decadent", "bourgious" or "counter-revolutionary" is absolutely ridiculous. Socialism is supposed to embrace free love and liberal sexuality. Perhaps they're not depressed? Perhaps they're happy being different? Usually, people are alienated by capitalism because they're already different and that encourages them to become communistic. I have a few friends who are transexual and socialist, because they want to be treated with equality and respect.

Iron Felix wrote:
Like I said capitalism has aliented the person so much that they dont even know if they are a guy or a girl. The person is in no fit state to hold a position of autrhority. I believe the party has to be a moral organ to. Im not a great believer in pemissiveness. I believe it degenerates the human being and what it means to be a man or a woman.

Transexualism and gender confusion are two different things and neither can affect a person's position of authority. Transexualism is a harmless fetish or lifestyle, not a mental illness, nor is being sexually liberal.

Quote:
The Bolshevik party after the revolution spent an awful lot of time trying to teach the mostly illiterate masses of the former Russian empire not to swear in public or spit on trains. I think this sort or moral work is great. Were making a new man.Those that are stuck in the old capitalist ways can die with them. Thats what I think anyway.

There is a huge difference between rude behaviour and being sexually liberal. What is rude is oppressing somebody as "counter-revolutionary" when they simply have an eccentric sexual preference and are not counter-revolutionary at all.

Quote:
Im sorry if I look like a Stalinist bigot but thats what I am.

I'm afraid you sound more like a Right-Wing conservative :/
Free love, not trade!
Soviet cogitations: 10005
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 14 Jul 2008, 20:01
Ideology: Trotskyism
Philosophized
Post 20 Dec 2010, 17:11
Gulag, it's common for non-Western communists to see homosexuality and all other kinds of "deviant" sexual behavior as "bourgeois degeneration", and I'm told this was even the case among the English working class until a few decades ago. This is mostly due to cultural norms. People that have not grown up in the West have been left untouched by the sexual revolution in the wake of '68 that forever changed our opinion on sexuality in Western societies. In the mind of somebody who doesn't come from the same culture as we do (and since Iron Felix is involved with the CPRF, his politization process obviously took place under different circumstances than ours) it really is incomprehensible why gay, transsexual rights or other minority rights seem so important to us. Therefore I don't think that such a debate will lead very far.

A bit of criticism:

Quote:
That's a very fascist thing to say
It actually sounds like your advocating oppression and discrimination.


No, it's not fascist. It's wrong, it's discriminating, it's repulsive, but it's not fascist. Also, every socialist advocates oppression and discrimination - for the bourgeoisie. Now if your cultural background conditions you to see, e.g., homosexuality as a distinctly bourgeois trait (which Ancient Greece conclusively proves wrong, btw) what do you think is the logical conclusion?

Quote:
The whole concept of Socialism is equality and acceptance of all people no matter their differences.


No, not really. I mean, equality and acceptance of all people is definitely quite an important side effect of socialism, but socialism itself is more like the dictatorship of the proletariat.

Quote:
What you're advocating is pretty much shallow capitalism.


Not at all. Capitalism is nothing but an economic system which does not necessarily lead to discrimination. Remember that it was capitalism that introduced gay marriages, for example.

Quote:
Socialism isn't just against class oppression, it is against racism, sexism, homophobia or any kind of oppression or discrimination.


It's important to remember that all these are secondary conflicts that derive from class oppression. Socialism gets rid of every kind of conflict by abolishing the central conflict, the class conflict.

Quote:
What you're advocating is the abolition of personal freedom here.


Just a side note: Communists aren't all too keen about the liberal (and truly bourgeois) notion of "personal freedom." The bourgeoisie was the first political force to demand "personal freedom" when it started building its political system with the American and French revolutions. What "personal freedom" really translates to, however, is competition and massive un-freedom. Therefore, a communist certainly will never allow the "personal freedom" to have property or use it for profit, for example.
"Don't know why i'm still surprised with this shit anyway." - Loz
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Soviet cogitations: 209
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 11 Dec 2010, 00:06
Ideology: Juche
Pioneer
Post 21 Dec 2010, 11:09
Baisically what Mabool wrote is my explination of why I think like I do. But I was born and raised in the west im from the UK. I just decieded to carry out my revolutionary duties in Russia. I dont believe in freedom or anything like that and I cant be doing with Liberalism.
I supposed those years on the Moscow barricades turned me a bit.
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Thier is such a party!"
"Есть такая партия!"
Lenin,Ленин
Soviet cogitations: 987
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 27 Apr 2007, 18:04
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Komsomol
Post 22 Dec 2010, 22:10
Why are Stalinists so reactionary when it comes to sexual issues? I don't think incest should be punished, except for when it was abuse of course. Forced marriage to a cousin in Islam should be closely watched though, we should definitely outlaw that.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 28 Feb 2009, 02:54
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Party Member
Post 22 Dec 2010, 22:46
Comrade Kaiwen wrote:
Why are Stalinists so reactionary when it comes to sexual issues? I don't think incest should be punished, except for when it was abuse of course. Forced marriage to a cousin in Islam should be closely watched though, we should definitely outlaw that.


Shouldn't we outlaw forced marriages period?

As for the question, I'd say they should not be (and really could not be) banned, but it is a practice which should not be supported in anyway and never allow them to have children. Having said that, I wouldn't disagree with giving some benefits to couples in an incestuous relationship so long as they do not breed as such would have horrible consequences.
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