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Hong Kong - Tiananmen all over again?

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Soviet cogitations: 1325
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 29 Sep 2011, 13:51
Ideology: Democratic Socialism
Party Member
Post 12 Sep 2019, 19:18
I was hoping to get some insight on the matter, especially from any comrades living in China. So these pro-western uprisings continue to pop up with the full backing of western diplomats on the ground, although the same can't seem to be said the other way round as I have yet to have seen Russian or Chinese officials liaising with say the yellow vest protesters. The Chinese government seems to have been quite restrained thus far, but all of this naturally brings back memories of Tiananmen Square.

The reason I bring up the comparison is the timing. Tiananmen took place when a wave of revolutions swept across the eastern bloc countries, naturally spreading throughout the rest of the socialist world with the support of the west. Now we're sort of seeing the same thing after all the western sponsored colour revolutions that have been taking place recently. This is why I tend to have doubts about the legitimacy of the demands of these protesters, which at first glance don't seem to merit such a reaction.

Opinions comrades? What's the dealio?
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The great art of life is sensation; to feel that you exist, even in pain.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 19 Mar 2005, 20:08
Embalmed
Post 13 Sep 2019, 01:55
Tiananmen square protests were fueled by specifically Chinese grievances after the Deng Xiaoping, namely stripping away of social benefits from state owned enterprises employees (China had a similar system to the USSR, where SOEs provided housing, medical care, etc, but unlike the USSR had no universal guarantees from municipal governments). The big motivation for students was that they saw that after graduation they would not have this kind of employment, meanwhile people connected to the Party on regional and national levels were doing very well, as corruption grew and the government turned a blind eye to Party officials becoming businessmen. So a combination of corruption, growing inequality and lack of good jobs with social guarantees made people see injustice and protest it.

Hong Kong is very different as it was a British colony and only got "democracy" as part of its transition to becoming part of China. Today it is wealthier than any other part of China, but the economy has reached a standstill and there is no affordable housing due to speculation and status as a financial center, so people can't migrate to China as they would be worse off and can't stay because their lives suck and will not improve. Obviously they blame China for this, while China needs Hong Kong as that's where they stash much of their money or funnel it through to investments abroad, especially ill gotten gains from corruption.

I don't think Western interference played much of a role in either, except as propaganda and perhaps advisors on tactics for the latter. Without the social basis the Hong Kong protests are about nothing, and as they lost the social content and became explicitly shit like putting the colonial flag up, they also stopped being like 1/3 of the city marching and just became violence, racism against mainland Chinese, etc, which we have gotten used to seeing from the nativists in past protests. There are also legitimate social grievances though, as life there seems pretty awful even if you are middle class and not rich.
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"Bleh, i don't even know what i'm arguing for. What a stupid rant. Disregard what i wrote." - Loz
"Every time is gyros time" - Stalinista
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Soviet cogitations: 10765
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 21 Dec 2004, 23:53
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Philosophized
Post 03 Oct 2019, 04:00
Here is a good article from 24 September 2019: The Hong Kong protests and imperialism: What the corporate media isn’t saying.

Besides that it is important to note the 'one country, two systems' principle that exists within China. I'd find it hard to believe that these protests would expand into the mainland.
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"By what standard of morality can the violence used by a slave to break his chains be considered the same as the violence of a slave master?" - Walter Rodney
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