Soviet-Empire.com U.S.S.R. and communism historical discussion.
[ Active ]
[ Login ]
 17 Oct 2014, 04:55
So... If you're in the US you've no doubt heard nearly non-stop about the "outbreak".
Mainly Ebola is in 3 countries in West Africa, Guinea, Liberia and Sierra Leone with around 4,500 deaths so far. Those three countries obviously have a relatively bad problem. Now that there are 3 confirmed cases in the US, it has shown several things about the US in particular to me. 1. Americans are extremely selfish (IE. The nurse who had been knowingly exposed, who wasn't feeling well, who decided to FLY anyway). 2. Americans panic about this kind of stuff easily. 3. Our government agencies have no idea how to handle this situation. If this were an easily communicable disease, #1 and #3 doom us. For all the knowledge, technology, and sanitation advantages the western world has (versus West Africa) #1 negates almost all of that. And in a case where a heavy hand by the government is necessary, the CDC has shown very odd restraint (Why the hell would they tell her it was ok to fly?). 17 Oct 2014, 05:49
Probably because she wanted to get medical treatment in the U.S. rather than where she was working. I don't know what the CDC people were thinking though.
 "Bleh, i don't even know what i'm arguing for. What a stupid rant. Disregard what i wrote." - Loz "Every time is gyros time" - Stalinista 17 Oct 2014, 06:12
I like how all my dumbass friends who believe in conspiracies are losing their shit right now. It's pretty funny actually.
 17 Oct 2014, 21:11
I'd hardly call it an outbreak. More like an appearance or an emergence. Either way, it's not much to get riled up about. Ebola's not exactly influenza when it comes to being contagious. The CDC's relative laxity probably comes from the knowledge that the situation is no where near the point where the government's heavy hand is necessary. One or two infected does not make for a clear and present danger.
 Forum Rules Red_Son: Bob Avakian is the Glenn Beck of communism. "Le prolétariat; c'est moi." - King Indigo XIV 
Soviet cogitations: 3872
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 12 Jun 2006, 02:14 Ideology: Marxism-Leninism Politburo 17 Oct 2014, 21:20
There are also a few cases in Spain. One or two. Because they flew in a priest who was treating ebola in Africa, and a few nurses got the virus.
Anyway, it is an outbreak. Just not in the US. There are around 9000 cases in Africa, and might reach 10000 next month. But still there are other diseases, like malaria, spreading faster (but that's not news-worthy...) 18 Oct 2014, 05:43
Kirov wrote: I'm talking about the Dallas Nurse who treated the first US patient, who herself was under observation, had a slightly elevated temperature and some mild sypmtoms, and decided she should still fly to Cleveland to shop for wedding dresses. Now 800 people who flew on her flights or on that plane are being notified, basically, because she was an asshole and the CDC was too stupid to think that people are panicky about this kind of stuff. People just don't give a shit about anybody but themselves, which is not distinctly an American problem alone, but it sure seems to be worse here and if this were an actual outbreak, would be absolutely infuriating. Dagoth Ur wrote: Yes, Ebola was created by Republicans as this elections October surprise. Che Burashka wrote: Don't tell Americans that, a lot of my coworkers fly all the damn time. They have all said they see people flying with protective masks and rubber gloves. Obviously, you're right, 3 cases is not an outbreak. As you said, Malaria is spreading badly in part due to the lack of resources to fight it thanks to Ebola consuming precious resources. But that's easily fixed in the West, so nobody really cares. 12,000 people in the US died of H1N1, but this is a greater panic, I'm not exactly sure why, other than the fact that it's a terrible, terrible Virus to have versus the flu, and it's not "Curable". Indigo wrote: I disagree, I think the CDC has been listening to the Liberals and Libertarians too much. Some people act as if Ebola is not contagious. The problem is that those who are sick with the virus spew bodily fluids fragging everywhere. This is opposed to a virus spread in a similar way, like Mono, where your bodily fluids stay more or less contained. Anybody in contact with this is at great risk. It is not too much to ask to tell people who've had exposure to fluids from an Ebola patient to NOT fragging FLY or be in public, a heavy hand here is exactly what keeps something like this from spreading. We're talking about 21 days of inconvenience versus the fallout from 800 panicky people on those flights, and the possibility of other infections. Again, 1 person being stuck at home for 21 days is not that big of a fragging deal when it comes to public health and safety. The public panic it has set off was not worth this idiot trying on wedding dresses. I'm sure some are already contemplating lawsuits over it... Essentially my point is this, the West African countries have a mildly serious outbreak and they seem to be relatively unable to handle it themselves due to lack of resources and an extreme lack of knowledge of the general populace (it is spreading in large part due to funeral rituals). The US on the other hand, has no excuse for why it spread beyond the initial case. 21 Oct 2014, 10:18
Meanwhile, the sun is rising to a glorious new day in the Federal Republic of Nigeria. Today's a day for celebration within the heart of West Africa. Thanks to the brave and competent work of the Nigerian Health Services, the prompt precautionary measures of the Lagos local government, and the unselfish resilience of the Nigerian populace, Ebola has now been officially declared eradicated.
Special thanks should go to the great Republic of Cuba who's doctors in relativity to their economy have done the most in assisting the plight of West African nations. But the fight's far from over, just as effectively as Ebola's been liquidated from Nigeria, it could just as easily be reinfected. Like we say in West Africa, "It's not over until it's over." Ebola must be removed completely from the human populace now if we're to prevent it from becoming just another one of the diseases we've come to accept like HIV and viral hepatitis.  The great art of life is sensation, to feel that you exist, even in pain. 21 Oct 2014, 19:12
Scihobo wrote: The guy she had treated was a bit of an asshole himself, flying to his native Liberia, knowingly coming into contact with the virus, and then flying back to the US. Also, congratulations to Nigeria. That really is quite a feat. We will all hope and pray it stays that way! "The thing about capitalism is that it sounds awful on paper and is horrendous in practice. Communism sounds wonderful on paper and when it was put into practice it was done pretty well for what they had to work with." -MiG
21 Oct 2014, 21:02
THE END IS NIGH
GATHER YOUR SHOTGUNS GAS MASKS AND TINFOIL HATS BIG GUBMENT DID THIS MUH CONSTITUTION But seriously, we'll deal with this if it becomes a crisis - to economically developed countries. Nobody's gonna give a shit until pretty white people die
Soviet cogitations: 1533
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Oct 2007, 15:55 Ideology: Marxism-Leninism Party Member 22 Oct 2014, 00:36
It's noteworthy that the news of Nigeria eradicating the Ebola virus gets no notice in U.S. media, or doesn't get notice like it should. "Yay! Nigeria is an incompetent 3rd world country not worthy of praise.."
We have beaten you to the moon, but you have beaten us in sausage making.- Nikita Khrushchev
22 Oct 2014, 16:06
It's definitely worth noting that Nigeria did a much better job than the United States.
More than likely the U.S.will see no more New cases, but should not have had any beyond the first guy. Good to know the U.S. can't compete with Nigeria given all of our advantages thanks to our idiotically crippling politics and attitudes toward personal freedom. 22 Oct 2014, 20:47
I seriously doubt that Ebola will ever become a serious health issue in the United States. The Health Services there is more than capable of dealing with whatever outbreak that may arise if the government deems it necessary.
It is the profit driven incentives of the medical services that makes them reluctant to help West African nations whether it is by sending medical personnel or through research for a cure, even though a lot of Americans work in West Africa. So until the American government and Health Services find a good enough reason to spend resources by taking any precautionary measures within or outside the country, they'll just sleep on it and treat it as a third world problem for the time being. On another important note, the public panic that arises as a result of Ebola infiltrating any country has the potential of striking a severe blow to the host country's economy. Here in Nigeria it worked as a double edged sword. In one way, the panic resulted in people isolating themselves more and coming into less contact with others, even taking extra unnecessary precautionary measures in relation to the disease's contagiousness, as well as practicing better hygiene. Shaking hands was replaced by simply greeting each other while keeping a distance. In banks and supermarkets people's temperatures were measured using infrared thermometers before allowing them to enter, while the staff were all required to wear rubber gloves at all times. Local artists also did their part in raising awareness by producing popular songs about Ebola like this one: Ebola in Town! The government increased border and flight checks, quarantined the sick, monitored medical staff treating the infected, as well as took some rather extreme measures like laying off a large number of government medical personnel who went on strike for unrelated reasons during the outbreak, declaring strikes illegal during a time of medical emergency. All this contributed significantly to its eventual eradication. On the other hand it dealt quite a serious blow to the economy especially here in Lagos. First of all these precautionary measures cost a lot of money in relation to the country's poor economy. To add to that many businesses experienced a sudden and extreme lack of customers. Businesses like restaurants, sports and night clubs, and basically all non life essential or social gathering entertainment businesses suffered the most. Even big construction companies were hit hard because many of the foreign engineers and expat personnel upon which Nigeria heavily relies on for its development decided to leave the country upon hearing of the outbreak. On the street I live alone, out of approximately 30 foreigners and expats either working temporarily or living permanently in Nigeria, only me and my flatmate decided to stay behind regardless after the first month of the outbreak in Lagos. Everybody's returned since then. Nigeria's poor medical/economical situation and lack of infrastructure coupled with the fact that it is the most populated region in Africa led people to correctly believe that a disastrous Ebola epidemic could eventually result. This led to the government deciding that the expensive measures it would take to battle the outbreak in its early stages was worth not risking an epidemic at worst or an even bigger economic blow as a result of mass hysteria at best. The risk of having Nigeria's borders closed as a result would have been a disaster not only for West Africa but significantly to all of Africa as well. In other words the economical and health risks far outweighed the material costs. This however is still not the case in America the way I see it, and so the inactivity of the American authorities makes perfect sense from a cynical business point of view. They still don't see a public health or even an economic risk grave enough to merit costly and prompt government action. Nevertheless it is worth remembering as socialists the words of our comrade who was a doctor himself when he spoke on revolutionary medicine: Ernesto Che Guevara wrote: The great art of life is sensation, to feel that you exist, even in pain. 23 Oct 2014, 04:46
Yeqon wrote: This isn't a problem that the US needs to be involved in outside of its own borders moreso than any other country. I don't think it's fair to single out the US in this regard. It's just to be expected. As far as profit driven medicine, it's the nature of the beast to ignore things unless there is money to be made. Nigeria sounds like they had to throw a lot into it to make sure it was contained, and to be honest, in Lagos, that's to be expected. If the infected guy in the US came to New York City, I think the response would have been different than the situation in Texas. Not to mention that bureaucrats probably got complacent and tired of dealing with panicky, irrational people. Che Guevara wrote: I've not seen this quote in a long time. It's inspiring, but also a complete load of bollocks. It's one of those "fantasyland" quotes that doesn't hold any weight. The problem with the property of the richest man on earth is that he has accumulated what truly IS worth way, way more than anybody should. As a person who believes in Utilitarianism to a degree, you can and should put a "value" on human life, and believe me, the assets of the richest man in the world are worth lots of lives. 23 Oct 2014, 09:30
I wasn't singling out America. I just mentioned it in specific because it is the main country of concern in this thread. A lot of what I said about its reluctance to take action can be applied to other first world countries where medicine is privatised. I am not blind neither am I ungrateful for all the advances in medicine that the United States has been able to achieve within the past century, not to mention all the other technological advances to which I myself who lives in the third world am able to enjoy and benefit from. I myself was educated in American institutions after all.
There are however many faults that I will single out America for. On this particular topic for example we may look at other countries' responses to the Ebola virus epidemic in West Africa: Quote: Out of all these countries, America which is the richest country in the world is in fact doing the least amount of work in the medical field in order to battle the West African Ebola epidemic. Instead they do what the US government is typically famous for, which is sending in the guys with the big guns. How original. It's almost as if they've gotten so used to blowing things up that they've devolved into an army of neanderthal brutes whose first instincts are to smash anything they can't figure out. As for the Guevara quote I agree with you to certain degree when it's taken literally and completely isolated out of context. I however have got the feeling that we interpret it and take it to heart a little differently from one another. The great art of life is sensation, to feel that you exist, even in pain. 23 Oct 2014, 19:02
Yeqon wrote: Yeah, to me, the whole PROBLEM with the way the world is is how untrue his statement is. Yeqon wrote: I can see your point there, but functionally that's just a matter of what is within the president's power. President's do that because it is easy, and it is within their power. Spending a whole bunch of money on the CDC is a matter more controlled by Congress via appropriations. Much harder to do, and frankly, with Tea Party Republicans in control of the house, there isn't a chance in hell it would happen. Again, it's a broken political system. For some odd reason it is a lot easier for us to take military action... Which seems very backwards. If you're not to familiar with the US political system, Congress is slow, and generally worthless. 24 Oct 2014, 04:13
Well shit. Now there is a new ebola case in New York city.... we'll See how this one goes.
24 Oct 2014, 09:53
PLAGUE! Duhn duh dah duh....
24 Oct 2014, 15:42
30 Oct 2014, 05:04
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... lfish.html
Oh for Frag sake. Look, I get that Chris Christie overreacted and quarantined her in a tent in the hospital when she got back. But WTF? 21 days at home is not that fragging bad. This is such a fragging first world problem... Of the three infected Americans so far, 2 of them did stuff they shouldn't have done knowing they'd been exposed to Ebola. Selfish idiots. There is a reason they're quarantining people. The virus isn't detectable in the blood until you show symptoms. But what the hell happens if say, you're not fragging at home when you start to show symptoms (as 2 out of the 3 have likely done)? You've just god damn exposed people to the Ebola virus. Just like the idiot on the plane, and then it becomes an issue of who needs to be watched and who needs to be contacted, all because you couldn't fragging relax at home for 21 days. First. World. Problem. 02 Nov 2014, 17:18
House arrest is the tamest, most sensible solution to a person who, you know, actually has ebola. What exactly is she supposed to be protesting? The fact that her state values public health over her ability to grab a hamburger and a small fry? For New Jersey, that's a fragging miracle.
Forum Rules Red_Son: Bob Avakian is the Glenn Beck of communism. "Le prolétariat; c'est moi." - King Indigo XIV |
Alternative Display:
Mobile view
|
||||||
