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Ukraine opposition urges fresh polls amid pro-EU rallies

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Soviet cogitations: 2848
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 21 Nov 2004, 20:31
Party Bureaucrat
Post 23 Apr 2015, 10:48
Xyzqwa wrote:
This is some really scary stuff. The lunatics in power will resort to anything if someone questions their narrative.


You mean like Putin and people critical of him who are conveniently taken care of: seriously, I can't believe how closed minded some of you people are with something akin to an automatic "Ukraine = evil: go Russia!" mentality - Russia is not the Soviet Union; you sure you know that?

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The last year I was doing my military service - guess what? - even in Finland's primary naval base where I served as a marine things got interesting as we followed the developments and we even had a special briefing by the Commandant concerning the situation. Russia's alienating even countries like Finland who have maintained good relations. Now Russia can only look in a mirror as even countries like Finland get closer to NATO. Of course in Russian media it's "NATO is now approaching Russia even from the North" - maybe it wouldn't be like that if Putin didn't give a country in the North of Europe cause to think.
Last edited by Carius on 23 Apr 2015, 11:32, edited 7 times in total.
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Soviet cogitations: 3618
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 22 Oct 2004, 15:15
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Politburo
Post 23 Apr 2015, 10:57
I like the "din do nuffin" reference at the end. Even a meme about Russia has to include a little joke at the expense of black people, apparently.
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Soviet cogitations: 6
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 01 Apr 2015, 03:55
Ideology: Other Leftist
New Comrade (Say hi & be nice to me!)
Post 24 Apr 2015, 02:27
Quote:
You mean like Putin and people critical of him who are conveniently taken care of: seriously, I can't believe how closed minded some of you people are with something akin to an automatic "Ukraine = evil: go Russia!" mentality - Russia is not the Soviet Union; you sure you know that?



What, like the oligarchs that raised hell during Yeltsin? Of course I know the Soviet Union was dissolved. However, even the KPRF has supported the government in it's foreign policy on Ukraine. What is happening in Eastern Ukraine is a tragedy and it wasn't caused by Russia. I don't know if I want to continue talking with you after this message though, since your tone seems quite hostile. I was just sharing an article I felt was relevant, and never mentioned anything about Putin. I never even said anything indicating if I was pro-Putin but you assumed this because I was anti-euromaidan.
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Soviet cogitations: 5167
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 08 Nov 2007, 06:31
Embalmed
Post 24 Apr 2015, 03:27
Carius wrote:
Russia is not the Soviet Union; you sure you know that?



You should probably direct that to the Western liberals and Eastern nationalists. You're just projecting, what makes you think anyone here likes a White Russian and conservative like Putin?

Regardless, he does not take care of his opposition like Ukrainian nationalists do, who are effectively purging the country. Russian liberalism and other anti-Putin elements are alive and well, but anyone who even makes a peep about federalization or were associated with the Party of Regions (let alone are leftist) are being killed off based on a list concocted by nazis. Pro-Maidan governors are simply installed, and then ban pro-Russian rallies while mass arrests are conducted of those suspected of 'separatism' (sometimes performed by nationalist militias). Ukraine's opposition is effectively dismantled, half the country has no real representation anymore, you can't say that about Russia. Indeed, imagine the press if Putin was doing any of this to pro-West elements, they lose their shit when he just gets tired of subversive NGOs.

Worse, it's not Russia that's trying to pass itself off as a pluralistic liberal-democracy, and unlike West Ukrainian parties Putin is not allied with extreme elements, let alone using them in state-sponsored, oligarch-funded militias that fly SS runes.

I don't see how one can't have distaste for Putin, Banderists, and liberal-imperialists. You just seem upset we take note of who would more quickly kill us leftists, and assume that therefore we are brainless soviet patriots that evolved into putinists, or something. No, we are anti-fascist and anti-imperialist, thus being anti-Maidan without any pro-Russian connotations seems pretty logical and natural to me, and the European left seems to feel the same (even the center-left, like the German SPD).

Also, I can't help but laugh at your mirror comment. Russia is reacting to NATO encirclement in the first place, and doesn't even show interest in Finland, the Baltics, etc. No, this started with anti-Soviet, anti-Russian nationalists in the fSU linking their cause with liberal-imperialists in order to spread neoliberalism and NATO bases to the exclusion of Russia, the country that collapsed its own geopolitical position in order to liberalize, Westernize, and even potentially join that alliance. Which, mind you, was the time your arch-villain Putin got his career started off in, as a strongman for Russian liberalism.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 19 Mar 2005, 20:08
Embalmed
Post 24 Apr 2015, 09:05
Has this thread really descended to provocative "battle-memes"?

Though I guess his post is an example of the political extremism of the European integration policy that is responsible for the murder of opposition journalist Oles Buzina.
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"Bleh, i don't even know what i'm arguing for. What a stupid rant. Disregard what i wrote." - Loz
"Every time is gyros time" - Stalinista
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Soviet cogitations: 1419
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 29 Sep 2011, 13:51
Ideology: Democratic Socialism
Party Member
Post 01 May 2015, 16:16
I concur with everything Conscript has said down to the letter.

I'll just add a few economic facts to the conversation.

Under the new government borrowing huge sums of money from the west, Ukraine's economy is now officially the worst performing in the world for 2015.

There are a little over 3 million Ukrainians living and working in Russia who send almost 2 billion USD every year back home out of an estimated total 5 billion USD from the entire worldwide Ukrainian diaspora, i.e. 40%.

Ukrainians comprise the largest immigrant population in Russia.

Last month Russia agreed to once again start selling gas to the Ukraine at the discounted price of $248 per 1,000 cubic meters; one of the lowest in Europe with only Belarus being sold at the very lowest; Poland at the highest.

On the other hand, the European Union is refusing to consider a visa free regime with the Ukraine despite it being one of the main promises made by the current Ukrainian government over a year ago.

At this point after watching countless interviews of EU officials and reading just as much articles, there is no reason whatsoever to believe that Ukraine will ever become part of the EU; albeit the same cannot be said about it becoming part of a much more useless (not to mention genocidal) organisation, NATO. This in my mind speaks volumes as to the intentions of Ukraine's now friendly western partners.


Regarding democracy and freedom of expression under the new Ukrainian administration:

In 2015, May Day rallies were banned in Kiev and Kharkiv; regardless of the fact that it was the left, communists, socialists, and anarchists alike who have struggled the most in promoting Labour Day as an international holiday.

Russian TV channels are still banned from being broadcast in the Ukraine despite the fact that they were the most watched form of entertainment for ordinary Ukrainian citizens; thus resulting in the largest drop in revenue and ratings for Ukrainian television since the fall of the U.S.S.R.

There is a difference between being pro-(fill in the blank) and recognising realistic facts.

Even Valentina Lisitsa, the Ukrainian virtuoso pianist who's also a liberal and anti-Soviet isn't blind to the facts.


Slightly off topic but since people like discussing Russian aggression and all...

Here's a video I like regarding what comprises an aggressive state.
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The great art of life is sensation, to feel that you exist, even in pain.
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Soviet cogitations: 9398
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 19 Mar 2005, 20:08
Embalmed
Post 02 May 2015, 20:36
It's been a year since the Odessa Massacre.

Still nothing done about the perpetrators, though two or three of them have met strange deaths. The guy who was dressed like a cop and shot at the Trade Unions building while wearing a bulletproof vest died in a Kiev hospital a few months ago of some weird disease that set on very quickly. Another was apparently killed in a bomb attack on the nationalist rally in Kharkov back in February. There may have one more though I don't remember what happened to him.

I don't celebrate their deaths as they are a hindrance to the investigation to find out what happened and how high up the list of perpetrators goes. That is, whether it stops at then-chairman of the National Security and Defense Council, Andriy Parubiy, or keeps going.
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"Bleh, i don't even know what i'm arguing for. What a stupid rant. Disregard what i wrote." - Loz
"Every time is gyros time" - Stalinista
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