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Ukraine opposition urges fresh polls amid pro-EU rallies

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Soviet cogitations: 4500
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Oct 2004, 22:04
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Resident Soviet
Post 26 Mar 2014, 21:52
Yeqon, I think you took your argument a bit too far. A very, very small minority, confined literally to several thousand people, started the processes that would destroy the Soviet Union. Men that have fallen to alcoholism, drugs, suicide, etc. had just as little choice in the matter as many women who became prostitutes. There was a stage in the late 1980s where prostitution became popular because it was portrayed by the liberalized media as a hip thing to do for young girls, but by the 90s, with the onset of extreme poverty, non-payment of wages and benefits for months or even years, and the rise of criminal cartels tricking and enslaving young women, it became something else entirely. As people from an impoverished country dominated by criminal backers, I find it hard to believe there are many 'happy' prostitutes, and even those that are have their material pleasures only temporarily, until the sands of time wash away their beauty.

Quote:
A very smart fella once said that all women (including your mothers, sisters and daughters) are prostitutes and that the only difference between women is the price you have to pay with the "wife" being the elite among whores because she's the one that will cost you the most.


This is a male-centred approach that portrays women as commodities to be bought (in the case of dating, through dinners, presents, flowers, etc.). This approach is pretty much irrelevant to Soviet society and Soviet women, most of whom had independent lives, careers, etc. The male pays in courting the woman, but ultimately it is usually the woman that takes care of the man and his family later on.
"The thing about capitalism is that it sounds awful on paper and is horrendous in practice. Communism sounds wonderful on paper and when it was put into practice it was done pretty well for what they had to work with." -MiG
Loz
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Soviet cogitations: 11879
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 06 Dec 2009, 23:17
Philosophized
Post 26 Mar 2014, 22:22
Quote:
There was a stage in the late 1980s where prostitution became popular because it was portrayed by the liberalized media as a hip thing to do for young girls, but by the 90s, with the onset of extreme poverty, non-payment of wages and benefits for months or even years, and the rise of criminal cartels tricking and enslaving young women, it became something else entirely. As people from an impoverished country dominated by criminal backers, I find it hard to believe there are many 'happy' prostitutes, and even those that are have their material pleasures only temporarily, until the sands of time wash away their beauty.

But another wave of prostitution started under mature Stalinism as well, as Trotsky wrote in the Revolution betrayed.
http://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky ... t/ch07.htm
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 19 Mar 2005, 20:08
Embalmed
Post 27 Mar 2014, 07:06
Lol guys chill out, we were just making digs at Ukrainians and the stereotype that all prostitutes in Moscow are Ukrainian and vice versa. I don't think any ethnic hatred was meant (though the hohols are responsible for my hair turning greasy and jet black 12-18 hours after washing and irises the color of shit, thanks, dad), just mockery of the political aims of the project, which is itself incredibly stupid and based on the same sort of misguided nationalism that we use to mock it.

Either way, prostitution isn't by itself bad, if exploitative elements such as pimping and police crackdowns and collusion are removed. I know a girl (of no known slavic ancestry, for those to whom this matters) who has decided to get on one of those escort websites and seems to be having a lot of fun doing it. Though one of her clients keeps offering her Washington Capitals tickets and she keeps refusing because "oh I don't really know much about hockey and I don't know if any of my friends do hurr."


Of course being forced to work abroad by a pimp or being forced to do it because of actual economic circumstances and not because you think your mattress needs more padding is very different, but it doesn't make those people any worse for being prostitutes. Otherwise you are the moral equivalent of this guy.

Nothing really interesting today, Ukrainian troops are leaving Crimea by bus with 2000 hryvnias in their pocket, which is 1.5-2 times bigger than the monthly wage of most of them. Also, the Maidan seems to be facing a lard and horylka chaser shortage, so they have decided to build a vegetable garden and pig farm right on the nation's central square. You really can't be making this stuff up, folks, it's like they're intent on giving failed comedians like me a run for their money.
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"Bleh, i don't even know what i'm arguing for. What a stupid rant. Disregard what i wrote." - Loz
"Every time is gyros time" - Stalinista
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Soviet cogitations: 1415
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 29 Sep 2011, 13:51
Ideology: Democratic Socialism
Party Member
Post 27 Mar 2014, 21:13
soviet78 wrote:
Yeqon, I think you took your argument a bit too far.


I apologize.

Kirov wrote:

Maidan seems to be facing a lard and horylka chaser shortage, so they have decided to build a vegetable garden and pig farm right on the nation's central square. You really can't be making this stuff up, folks, it's like they're intent on giving failed comedians like me a run for their money.


This really is one of those things one has to see to believe. All those poor businessmen who woke up every morning to the smell of coffee and newspapers now have to wake up to the smell of pig shit.


Meanwhile:

Quote:
Hundreds of nationalists from the Right Sector have circled the Ukrainian parliament in Kiev and threaten to storm it. The protesters demand the resignation of the interior minister after their leader Muzychko was killed in a police operation.

Some 1,500 members of the Right Sector, which recently was revamped into a political party, have flooded the square in front of Verkhovna Rada in the Ukrainian capital on Thursday night. The radicals, who brought car tires to burn with them, are banging on the Parliament’s doors, smashing the glass parts in them.

Wearing masks and brandishing bats, they are shouting "Avakov, get out!"

More people are reportedly streaming in. RIA Novosti says the parliament building is empty except for guards, some administrative staff and reporters.

The protesters threaten to break into the parliament if their demands are not met, journalists report from the scene. The Rada’s security has concentrated in front of the entrance to the building and prepared water cannons, urging the journalists inside not to approach the windows looking onto the Constitution Square.


Interior Minister Arsen Avakov is held personally responsible by the nationalists for the death of Aleksandr Muzychko, also known as Sashko Bilyi, one of the Right Sector leaders. Muzychko was declared killed in a police raid against his gang in Rovno, western Ukraine, on Tuesday.

Following the death, Right Sector leaders threatened Avakov with revenge, though they did not specify exactly what they would do. Dmitry Yarosh called for the minister's dismissal.

"We’ll wait for the negotiators from the Parliament, the MPs, but we won’t settle for Avakov’s resignation – we want his tribunal,” the radicals announced through megaphones.

The radicals also blame the interior minister for not putting enough effort into investigating investigate the deaths of protesters during the Maidan standoff in January and February.


The leader of the UDAR party and former boxing champ, Vitaly Klitschko, went out to the negotiate with the Right Sector in front of the Rada.

Klitschko tried to persuade the radicals to give up the idea of storming the parliament building as “it will destabilize the current situation in Ukraine. The parliament building is empty, because the deputies have already left.”
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The great art of life is sensation, to feel that you exist, even in pain.
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Soviet cogitations: 2298
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Aug 2010, 14:21
Party Bureaucrat
Post 27 Mar 2014, 21:39
A nazi building a pig farm and a vegetable garden? As Marx said: "The first time as tragedy, the second time as farce."
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"Fishing is part of agriculture" Gred
"Loz, you are like me" Yami
"I am one of the better read Marxists on this site" Gred
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Soviet cogitations: 417
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 15 Nov 2012, 01:18
Komsomol
Post 28 Mar 2014, 01:02
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Soviet cogitations: 6211
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 04 Aug 2004, 20:49
Ideology: Democratic Socialism
Embalmed
Post 28 Mar 2014, 02:08
Sorry, what? Your avatar pic is animated too. WHAT?!


Meet George Costanza.
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"Phil Spector is haunting Europe" -Dr. Karl H. Marx
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Soviet cogitations: 3871
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 12 Jun 2006, 02:14
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Politburo
Post 28 Mar 2014, 02:09
Not anymore


"Where Argentina goes, Latin America will go".
Leonid Brezhnev

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Soviet cogitations: 6211
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 04 Aug 2004, 20:49
Ideology: Democratic Socialism
Embalmed
Post 28 Mar 2014, 02:12
Shit.

Who's up for some drunken food from an Englishman?
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"Phil Spector is haunting Europe" -Dr. Karl H. Marx
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Soviet cogitations: 1415
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 29 Sep 2011, 13:51
Ideology: Democratic Socialism
Party Member
Post 28 Mar 2014, 12:42
The same kind of black propaganda that was used in World War II. Soldiers from both sides at the front were constantly handed out leaflets by the enemy talking about how their wives were being screwed at home while they were dying in vain for their country.

The leaflets had amusing sketches of women being screwed in different positions so as to supposedly arouse disturbing mental images of soldier's wives in their heads. To what extent such propaganda is effective or counter effective I don't know.

Not too long ago, I watched an Israeli commercial that showed a beautiful sexy young woman about to take a dive into into a swimming pool while a couple of athletic muscular good-looking guys (one black one Italian) were checking her out on one side of the pool, while on the other side there was this skinny nerdy looking type also checking her out.

Then the girl takes a dive into the pool and starts swimming underwater towards the side of the pool where the good looking guys are sitting. While underwater both the tough guys and the nerd noticed that her top is floating atop the water from the dive impact.

As the tough guys wait anxiously for the girl to eventually rise out of the water on their side breasts bearing, the nerd quickly dives into the water and swims fast enough like Superman to reach her on time and grab the girl's breasts from behind just as she was rising out denying the tough guys their visual pleasure.

The advertisement ended with something along the lines of "Protect your women! Jews for Jews" or something like that.

Now in Ukraine it's the same bullshit in another place.

All those poor poor people...
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The great art of life is sensation, to feel that you exist, even in pain.
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Soviet cogitations: 3618
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 22 Oct 2004, 15:15
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Politburo
Post 28 Mar 2014, 13:13
http://rt.com/news/vader-presidential-h ... raine-885/

The Verhkovna Rada will no longer be of any concern to us.
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 417
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 15 Nov 2012, 01:18
Komsomol
Post 28 Mar 2014, 15:07
So yandex maps is the only map server that reflects recent territorial changes

http://maps.yandex.ru/
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Soviet cogitations: 9396
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 19 Mar 2005, 20:08
Embalmed
Post 28 Mar 2014, 17:07
Yeah, but not their Ukrainian site lol, I guess because they like money. Though it kind of messes with your head when have both maps be in Russian.

Ukr: http://maps.yandex.ua/-/CVfWMG8v

Rus: http://maps.yandex.ru/-/CVfWMG8v

They were apparently going to make two different sites entirely for Ukrainian and Russian users, but going in through a Ukrainian proxy to the .ru site still shows Crimea as part of Russia.

It will take a while to correct all the maps though, even the graphic CPRF decided used on its site has Crimea as part of Ukraine:

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"Bleh, i don't even know what i'm arguing for. What a stupid rant. Disregard what i wrote." - Loz
"Every time is gyros time" - Stalinista
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Soviet cogitations: 2298
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Aug 2010, 14:21
Party Bureaucrat
Post 30 Mar 2014, 11:56
think I found the last democratic party in Ukraine:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9h4VA3bc-8#t=20
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"Fishing is part of agriculture" Gred
"Loz, you are like me" Yami
"I am one of the better read Marxists on this site" Gred
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Soviet cogitations: 9396
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 19 Mar 2005, 20:08
Embalmed
Post 30 Mar 2014, 18:09
Here's a piece of news that passed by somewhat unnoticed, Israel wants to join the Customs Union (Voice of Russia) or something. So does Syria, which, unlike Israel, is already conducting negotiations with Belarus and Kazakhstan, having gained Russia's approval. Turkey is also considering it, apparently. I wonder how all of this will work out...

Though I guess if Russia and Ukraine still have a visa-free zone and international talks on the level of foreign ministers despite the whole Crimea thing, the whole Golan Heights thing shouldn't be that big of a deal, right?
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"Bleh, i don't even know what i'm arguing for. What a stupid rant. Disregard what i wrote." - Loz
"Every time is gyros time" - Stalinista
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Soviet cogitations: 9396
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 19 Mar 2005, 20:08
Embalmed
Post 07 Aug 2014, 18:06
They're baaaaack. Maidan barricades are being rebuilt.

Though it's unclear if this will lead to anything.

Klichko claims that large amounts of weaponry, grenade launchers and "Russian money" were found on the maidan.

It's a bit amusing to watch in that both sides accuse each other of being Putin's agents.
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"Bleh, i don't even know what i'm arguing for. What a stupid rant. Disregard what i wrote." - Loz
"Every time is gyros time" - Stalinista
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Soviet cogitations: 1415
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 29 Sep 2011, 13:51
Ideology: Democratic Socialism
Party Member
Post 07 Aug 2014, 19:14
Back in the old days I would often hide my Lebanese origins because I was embarrassed of being partly "Arab".

Now I think about doing the same about my Ukrainian origins. What a fragging embarrassment Kiev has turned into. This is what happens when you don't have a competent security force. You start having street rats running around building lodges like fragging beavers.

Quote:
Klichko claims that large amounts of weaponry, grenade launchers and "Russian money" were found on the maidan.


Very nicely cut.
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The great art of life is sensation, to feel that you exist, even in pain.
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Soviet cogitations: 1415
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 29 Sep 2011, 13:51
Ideology: Democratic Socialism
Party Member
Post 20 Aug 2014, 16:45
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The great art of life is sensation, to feel that you exist, even in pain.
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Soviet cogitations: 237
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 16 Jul 2014, 21:53
Ideology: Other Leftist
Pioneer
Post 20 Aug 2014, 17:24
soviet78 wrote:
Yeqon, I think you took your argument a bit too far. A very, very small minority, confined literally to several thousand people, started the processes that would destroy the Soviet Union.


I find it amusing how people switch sides so quickly when it suits them. If a small minority "confined to literally several thousand people" can dissolve socialism, isnt this the result of bolchevique structure ? A small minority of the proletariat can start socialism, and this is good, but all the same a small minority can end it. The vanguard can lead us to socialism and back to capitalism. You might say : "But when they started socialism, they had the will of the masses on their side", but was the same will of the masses against the end of socialism ? If not, this only proves that fetichism did not end in URSS, and that bolchevism has no means to end it, so it cannot prevent a thermidor.

You might then say that the masses did not want the end of socialism, they weren't aware etc. But its hard to see how a indoctrinated majority would not stand up to fight against the fall. Theres a way to explain this. Vanguardism simply did not remove from people the elements that make men ideologically vulnerable. Follow the leader comrad ! Instead of fighting fetichism, instead of having socialism provide for the participation of the masses in the political day to day of the state, it worked backwards, de-incentivating people's will to take part, via the cult of personality around the leaders. "They know better !" (And stalinist dialetical materialism, turning marxism into a hard-science-like subject, worked wonders to make people shun away from discussing against the party).

I've seen people say that the party bureocracy cannot be called a "social class". Nope, they can. How ? All unequal systems since the burgeoise reached power work by creating conditions to the exploitation that are not obvious to the eye. If in the feudal times the peasantry was directly exploited, having the result of their labour taken away from their hands without much excuses (besides religious dogma etc), under all forms of capitalism the excuse was an indirect one. In mercantilism we have the ownership of the means of distribution, access to colonies etc. In industrialism we have ownership of the means of capital, the machines. This is done so that if the proletariat questions why he lives in poverty he cannot directly access the link between his poverty and the burgeoise richness, something that could be done under feudalism ("I am poor because the noble took my grains).

So can we say that the subordinate economic relationship between a class and another, where the higher class reserves (any way or other) to himself the ownership of a vital part of the chain of production, is the root mechanism of all exploitation. What are those vital parts of the chain of production that is reserved ("taken away") from the hands of the many and used as justification for exploitation ? In mercantilism, its the ships and the colony - commerce - in industrial capitalism its the machine, the capital means - production. And on URSS, what is taken away from the proletariat so as to be used as excuse ? The political power itself, the knowledge about marxist writtings, the free thinking, the capability to plan the production etc. The party itself ! Exclusive access to the political power of the state, reserved ("taken away") from the hands of the proletariat, become the excuse for the lavish standard of life that the party leadership had. The masses are called during the vanguardist revolution. Their latent power is set in motion. Bolcheviques are put into power. The same power of the masses, is taken away from them, just to be used against them later on.

But why them collapse the USSR and return to capitalism ? Simply becouse capitalism is a way more efficient machine of exploitation. Under socialism you have a very big apparattus of social protection that cannot be taken away without removing together the ideological aparattus used to justify the existence of the system itself - and so their status as bureocracy. In other words, upon reaching power, the bureocratic class cannot simply destroy the very same state that gave them power. Else people could ask: "why they keep power after the socialism fell ? We accepted their rule because they provided socialism to us, but now they say that socialism doesnot work, so what makes them special enough to let us keep them in power ? Lets find someone else who can run the country another way then ?" This is the contradiction of the system. So lets make things linger until the right time to collapse the system back to capitalism.
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Soviet cogitations: 1415
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 29 Sep 2011, 13:51
Ideology: Democratic Socialism
Party Member
Post 21 Aug 2014, 15:37
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The great art of life is sensation, to feel that you exist, even in pain.
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