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Reflecting on Conflict in Syria

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Soviet cogitations: 38
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 23 Jul 2012, 12:30
Pioneer
Post 30 Nov 2012, 20:14
It has been going on for a while now and it seems to be getting worse. Lately I saw some disturbing scenes that made me wonder. I am neither on Assad or the "Free Syrian Army's" side but on the side of innocent civilians trying to get on with their lives. Both Assad and the rebels are equally to blame. The conflict is not between freedom fighters and Assad but it's between a rebel group and the government. Innocent Syrians get caught in the crossfire.

In a situation like in Syria, a large percent of the population must support the government for it to still be operational. Say for example 70% of the country doesn't support the government, then the government would simply loose power because most of the soldiers would defect. A good example of this would be the fall of the Soviet Union which could have turned into a civil war but Gorbachev lost power without much struggle because most of the population supported Yeltsin. The image some news media give to people in their country is that the majority of the population don't support Assad and that he is killing innocent civilians because he they asked for freedom. I remember at the start of this conflict, Assad did try to bring reforms but it seems these freedom fighters were in a hurry for some unknown reason. They chose to ignore the fact that if they start a civil war, it's the innocent people who they claim to represent that are going to suffer. It's contradictory for the rebels to carry out suicide bombing which end up killing innocent civilians and then cry wolf to western powers when Assad decides to fight back. Assad did no wrong in defending his government(as most western government would if a rebel group challenged their authority) but he did however make the mistake of shelling towns to kill the rebels that hide in them. This would be perfectly fine if only everyone in these town was a rebel. However this is never the case and sadly innocent people get caught in the crossfire.

War seems to be the least effective means of attaining "freedom" and so must be a last resort if all else failed. In Syria there was time for a change but the opposition was in a hurry. Time was traded for blood instead of the other way round. There are no winners in war. When these "freedom fighters" do manage to take control of the whole country, not much will change. Another dictator will take Assad's place. I am certain of this. Anyways i would like you guy's intake on this conflict.
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Soviet cogitations: 417
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 15 Nov 2012, 01:18
Komsomol
Post 05 Dec 2012, 11:42
Firstly, up to 100000 (third to a half) of the SAA has defected and has, in fact, formed the core of the FSA. Secondly, you are ignoring the sectarian nature of the Syrian oligarchy and the loyalty networks that keep the regime together. They flow along the lines of extended Alawite families, which makes the core sections of the regime, such as the Shabiha and the army command, very unlikely to defect.

I would also add that, while civilian suffering is regrettable, it is not a reason to stay neutral. Civilians that are not neutral have joined the rebellion instead of suffering in silence.
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Loz
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 06 Dec 2009, 23:17
Philosophized
Post 05 Dec 2012, 13:33
Quote:
Civilians that are not neutral have joined the rebellion instead of suffering in silence.

Sure, and many others have joined the government instead of being slaughtered by Jihadists.
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Soviet cogitations: 417
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 15 Nov 2012, 01:18
Komsomol
Post 05 Dec 2012, 14:01
I am not seeing the likes of SLA form in support of the gov't.
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Loz
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 06 Dec 2009, 23:17
Philosophized
Post 05 Dec 2012, 14:04
Yeah, pro-government people, what a surprise, do not have to form terrorist armies.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 15 Nov 2012, 01:18
Komsomol
Post 05 Dec 2012, 14:14
So... what have any civilians done that may indicate support for the regime?
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Loz
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 06 Dec 2009, 23:17
Philosophized
Post 05 Dec 2012, 14:21
Joined the army and police and pro-government self-defense militias?
Soviet cogitations: 236
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Jul 2012, 03:04
Ideology: None
Pioneer
Post 06 Dec 2012, 23:37
What's going on in Syria anyway? When I watch the BBC, I feel like the rebels have seized the entire country and are pushing on Damascus, while I get the idea that the FSA is on their last stand when I watch RT. When I read Wikipedia, I find that the Kurdish faction has actually been doing better than the FSA in terms of spoils.

So I got tired of reading about this topic a while ago...
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 24 May 2012, 00:32
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Pioneer
Post 08 Dec 2012, 03:02
One of the resolutions from the 14th International Meeting of Communist and Workers Parties (IMCWP) held in Beirut, Lebanon recently are about the situastion in Syria.

Solidarity with Syria and its people

The Communist and Workers Parties that participate in the 14th international meeting which convened in Beirut (22nd – 25th November 2012) declare its solidarity with Syria and its people

The Communist and Workers Parties that participate in the 14th international meeting which convened in Beirut (22nd – 25th November 2012) declare its solidarity with Syria and its people against the imperialist conspiracies that aim to overthrow Syria resistance way against the hegemony plans of Imperialism and Zionism. The imperialist forces and its allied reactionary regimes use all means to achieve this vital goal. Furthermore, the imperialist intelligence and Arab reactionary circles, especially the Qatari and Saudi ones, funding the armed groups who carry out horrible operations, like random explosions that killed hundreds of innocent citizens and personal assassination with economic sabotage actions. As well as, Turkey, the essential base of NATO in the region, patronize the reactionary groups, especially that who cover itself with religion, in its all operations against Syria. In addition to the intensive propaganda campaign against Syria which is leaded by imperialist circles with Zionist participation.

We opposite and condemn strongly any direct or indirect intervention or aggression threat by Imperialism against Syria. We also condemn the imperialist support to the criminal and terrorist actions.
The Paris Communards struggled and died in the defense of their ideas. The banners of the revolution and of socialism are not surrendered without a fight. Only cowards and the demoralized surrender — never Communists and other revolutionaries.
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Soviet cogitations: 417
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 15 Nov 2012, 01:18
Komsomol
Post 09 Dec 2012, 10:53
Quote:
Joined the army and police and pro-government self-defense militias?

Have you any sourced examples of this?

Quote:
One of the resolutions from the 14th International Meeting of Communist and Workers Parties (IMCWP) held in Beirut, Lebanon recently are about the situastion in Syria.

These people are a joke and and a stalinist anachronism.
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Soviet cogitations: 2294
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Aug 2010, 14:21
Party Bureaucrat
Post 11 Dec 2012, 04:12
Why a joke? Because you support western imperialism? I don't understand why you even bother coming on this "anachronic" board. It's Soviet Empire (the past), not americanized Russia (the future you expect).
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"Fishing is part of agriculture" Gred
"Loz, you are like me" Yami
"I am one of the better read Marxists on this site" Gred
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 22 Jun 2012, 09:46
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Pioneer
Post 11 Dec 2012, 11:59
I hate to be the bad guy but
either we support Assad or the workers movement die for ever in syria
just like in other pro-USA, pro-NATO islamists countries
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Soviet cogitations: 417
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 15 Nov 2012, 01:18
Komsomol
Post 12 Dec 2012, 17:00
Quote:
Why a joke? Because you support western imperialism? I don't understand why you even bother coming on this "anachronic" board. It's Soviet Empire (the past), not americanized Russia (the future you expect).

The obsession with "western imperialism" is reactionary, as it is de-facto hostile to any workers' movement in countries hostile to the US. If you are hostile to my right to rebel against Putinism and its puppets because of some phantom "western imperialism", you are the enemy of our workers.

Quote:
either we support Assad or the workers movement die for ever in syria

ASSad destroyed the workers' movement in the earlier stages of the revolution, which is the main cause of the islamist international arriving in Syria.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 08 Nov 2007, 06:31
Embalmed
Post 12 Dec 2012, 18:41
Quote:
If you are hostile to my right to rebel against Putinism and its puppets because of some phantom "western imperialism", you are the enemy of our workers.


Good luck ever getting this through his head. He has a fragged up, incredibly selective definition of imperialism where it only ever comes from the west, and workers outside of it have a duty to support the national bourgeois in their struggle against it. Reactionary as frag.

He probably would've supported the KMT too. His politics are just a huge anachronism.
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Soviet cogitations: 2294
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Aug 2010, 14:21
Party Bureaucrat
Post 12 Dec 2012, 21:08
Quote:
ASSad destroyed the workers' movement in the earlier stages of the revolution, which is the main cause of the islamist international arriving in Syria.

There is no ground to this opinion. It was on the contrary the armed rebellion who, by killing policemen, shooting the population and saying it was the government, provoked Assad reaction. The aim of the islamists was both to crush Assad and the democratic rebellion against Assad. That's why the sole legitimate opposition still refuses to take arms and condemn western imperialism and its puppets.

Quote:
If you are hostile to my right to rebel against Putinism and its puppets because of some phantom "western imperialism", you are the enemy of our workers.

I think you are the enemy of your own workers. Putin doesn't fear you, you are his objective ally.
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"Fishing is part of agriculture" Gred
"Loz, you are like me" Yami
"I am one of the better read Marxists on this site" Gred
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 23 Jul 2012, 12:30
Pioneer
Post 12 Dec 2012, 23:59
Interesting. Am i right in saying that this conflict is between three groups namely the people who want democratic change, the islamic fanatics (free syrian army) and Assad. In that case am with the people who want true democratic change instead of another islamic state ruled by sharia law. It's also very interesting what's happening in Egypt.
One dictator for another + sharia law.
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Soviet cogitations: 2294
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Aug 2010, 14:21
Party Bureaucrat
Post 13 Dec 2012, 00:25
Indeed, and there is another group: the Kurds. They want their independance, or at least more rights.
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"Fishing is part of agriculture" Gred
"Loz, you are like me" Yami
"I am one of the better read Marxists on this site" Gred
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Soviet cogitations: 100
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 24 May 2012, 00:32
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Pioneer
Post 13 Dec 2012, 07:48
Arise wrote:
I hate to be the bad guy but
either we support Assad or the workers movement die for ever in syria
just like in other pro-USA, pro-NATO islamists countries


You are not the bad guy, but the guy who has right.A
You can not be standing "in th middle" or fight actively against Al-Assad who at this point is the symbol of the Syrian steadfastness and resistance to the imperaiist plans for Syria and the region.
You have to insist on the broadest possible unity to defend the homeland against imperiaiist aggression and destruction at this point.

I think that this is very clear.
The Paris Communards struggled and died in the defense of their ideas. The banners of the revolution and of socialism are not surrendered without a fight. Only cowards and the demoralized surrender — never Communists and other revolutionaries.
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Soviet cogitations: 417
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 15 Nov 2012, 01:18
Komsomol
Post 26 Dec 2012, 16:43
Quote:
There is no ground to this opinion. It was on the contrary the armed rebellion who, by killing policemen, shooting the population and saying it was the government, provoked Assad reaction. The aim of the islamists was both to crush Assad and the democratic rebellion against Assad. That's why the sole legitimate opposition still refuses to take arms and condemn western imperialism and its puppets.

What load of shite. Months of peaceful, secular demonstrations and strikes were molested by ASSas through his shabiha scum and the army. That was the whole reason soldiers began defecting. The rebellion is a logical and progressive extension of the initial uprising.
The islamists are totally irrelevant, appeared recently, number few, operate independently and are mostly from outside of Syria.

Quote:
I think you are the enemy of your own workers. Putin doesn't fear you, you are his objective ally.

Our people are among the may 6th prisoners, what the frag would you know about that. You want to deny us the right to revolt against our oppressors and you are an objective ally of tyrants such as Putin and ASSad.

Quote:
Interesting. Am i right in saying that this conflict is between three groups namely the people who want democratic change, the islamic fanatics (free syrian army) and Assad. In that case am with the people who want true democratic change instead of another islamic state ruled by sharia law. It's also very interesting what's happening in Egypt

The FSA are not "islamic fanatics", it's a secular organisation numbering over a hundred thousand. For islamic fanatics you must look to the Al-Nusra front. Even the latter has a positive point, which is being composed of Iraq vets who used to slay NATO invaders.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 24 May 2012, 00:32
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Pioneer
Post 30 Dec 2012, 17:12
The Free Syrian Army is an creation of the imperialists intelligence agencies and a tool of the NATO.

They are enemies of the people of Syria but also of the peoples of the world. Regardless of your opinion of Assad and critics towards the policy carried out under the leadership of the Baath and National Progressive Front: any shed of the peoples led movement to advance the cause of independence, anti-imperialism and peoples power with justified claims for another social and economical policy(because of the bourgeois forces drive for economic liberalization followed by attacks on the peoples rights and the worsening of living conditions for the great majority of the Syrian people) where hi-jacked and destroyed by the imperialist and their fanatic allies in the Gulf cooperation Council, Saudi, Turkey and other reactionary Arab regimes - that selfishly and totally in accordance with the wishes of imperialist forces contributes to the blatantly illegal violation of common international law and established norms for conduct, and with total disregard and disrespect for the peoples interests and the sovereignity and the right of self-determination for every country and people.

The downfall of the government of NPF and Al-Assad - which is supported by the genuine opposition based in the workers and peoples movement - will only serve the imperialists and the anti-people growing bourgeois in Syria and create a new capitalist pro-imperialist regime which will abandon their support to the cause of the Palestinian movement and other peoples and liberation movements and for surely destroy the workers and peoples movement in Syria.

This in addition to even more militarization and presence of foreign imperialist forces fighting for their petty interest, setting of another war with Iran and endangering even more the lives and security of the peoples of the region and the world in general.

The victory of the Syrian people in front of the imperialist campaign of aggression and subversion will give a blow to the plans of the imperialist and give impetus to the genuine workers and peoples movement in Syria and the region to advance the true cause of the working people according with the vast majorities interests and dreams of a life without war, free and in dignity with hopes for the future, with peoples power and establishment of a new Constitution of revolutionary character which ends the dependence on imperialism, towards ending exploitation and oppression totally and take away the antidemocratic power of the bourgeois forces in Syria.

The slogan “Syria will not kneel” should be supported by all the worlds anti-imperialists, popular and revolutionary forces in the world at the present stage.
The Paris Communards struggled and died in the defense of their ideas. The banners of the revolution and of socialism are not surrendered without a fight. Only cowards and the demoralized surrender — never Communists and other revolutionaries.
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