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Iraq

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Soviet cogitations: 841
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 22 Feb 2004, 21:43
Komsomol
Post 20 Apr 2004, 08:51
Well I am pro-war in this case, and I feel the Americans are interfering where they are not wanted. Hopefully, they'll eventually realise no-one likes them and go home like in 'Nam.
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Baptised in blood, I fear no death. Life is weakness, pain is release. The abyss is eternal, my existence infernal.
Soviet cogitations: 572
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 19 Jan 2004, 19:01
Komsomol
Post 30 Apr 2004, 04:45
Unfortunately:

The rebel forces are not secular.
And they aren't in any way socialist, marxist, or socially progressively idealogically oriented.

And they'll likely only bring in more recruits to be zombified into tools of islamic fundamentalism, which is no better than western imperialist fascism (and infact, I find fundamentalism worse).
Soviet cogitations: 148
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 02 May 2004, 18:28
Pioneer
Post 03 May 2004, 00:10
The longer the coalition troops stay in, the more reactionary the situation in iraq becomes.
Without massive external pressure, extremely authoritarian regimes don't tend to last that long...Its only the threat of a worse situation that stops people simply overthroweing the ruling class.

But of course the UK and the US are quite happy to have nutty fundamentalists running around most of the time, what better way to demonise the enemy and prevent any real advance of the working class.

john
So I read in the paper that the good guys won the war, and the red star won't be shining over moscow anymore, and my heart fell like a sparrow in the midst of my despair, when i saw la passionara with a flower in her hair
Soviet cogitations: 572
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 19 Jan 2004, 19:01
Komsomol
Post 03 May 2004, 02:08
They work as a team -- and it goes around in an endless loop, perticularily now that we've already made up our mind to ensure it goes on in this fashion.

The fundies gain recruits from the confused, angry, oppressed, and reactionary masses...

And the occidental imperialists rip away civil rights and move towards outright fascism while at the same time pushing their imperial goals.

And the cycle repeats.

Again, it's stupid to rejoice at the deaths of American soldiers and unduly support the reactionary elements that are being funded and controlled by fundamentalist groups in iraq in this fashion -- it's not as though the soldiers know what they are really fighting for, and willingly support that, and it's not as though the rebels are doing any sort of fighting for a worthy cause.

By worthy cause, I mean the end effect of their hypothetical victory.

What we are looking at in Iraq is a two faced situation: Occupation army and puppet regime for western imperialism, or fundamentalist non-secular Iran-like government -- in both cases in the long term and immediate, both the Iraqi populace, and the international working class, are victims -- whether or not one might think, in the short term, that there would be benefits from either.
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Soviet cogitations: 2538
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 26 Feb 2004, 06:10
Party Bureaucrat
Post 03 May 2004, 05:49
way to go petrovich! I agree completey about what you said in regards to the iraqi resistance fighters....just a bunch of Izlamic fundamentalists which is truly no better than american imperialists. to be quite honest, I think I'd much rather go with the civilized, modern american imperialists than a bunch of nuts (no offense to all you Izlamic fundamentalists)
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Goranhammer... blessed be his name. May his memory live in our hearts and touch our souls like a strawberry tampon enema
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Soviet cogitations: 4796
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 24 Feb 2004, 11:09
Ideology: Other Leftist
Central Committee
Post 03 May 2004, 07:54
I agree with this cliche statement here.

The Enemy of our Enemy is not necessarily our friend.

And in this case, for all i care, they can wipe each other off the planet.

Same goes for Israel and Palestine.
Soviet cogitations: 890
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 22 Feb 2004, 19:46
Komsomol
Post 03 May 2004, 09:16
hahaha have you ever considered that perhaps they want to live in an islamic republic? Maybe not all, but hey, that's democracy.

Americans should have learned not to force their own beliefs to other people a long time ago.
thank you for letting me be myself and you be yours
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Soviet cogitations: 4796
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 24 Feb 2004, 11:09
Ideology: Other Leftist
Central Committee
Post 03 May 2004, 10:11
Quote:
Americans should have learned not to force their own beliefs to other people a long time ago.


Especially each other, unfortunately this country has a very strong military, so try to stop them if you can.
Soviet cogitations: 148
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 02 May 2004, 18:28
Pioneer
Post 03 May 2004, 10:40
Nair al-Saif wrote:
hahaha have you ever considered that perhaps they want to live in an islamic republic? Maybe not all, but hey, that's democracy.

Americans should have learned not to force their own beliefs to other people a long time ago.


All states force their beleifs on other, thats what states do, and an islamic republic is one of the worst most authoritarin models for a sate curtrently in operation.

''Maybe not all''...Thats a pretty glib way of putting it, the people for whom an islamic republic would spell DEATH (ie homosexuals, trade unionists, womens rights activists, socialists) probably wouldn't want an islamo-fascist state.

Yet agin just because someone is in oppostion to the ''west'' doesn't mean we have to like them,

The issue is not whether or not the iraqi people...whoever they are...are muslim, its how far the presence of Coalition Troops will drive them towards reactionary elements.

This occupation is blatant Colonialism and of course i want the Coalition Troops to pull out now, but lets be clear about who we support, i for one am not going to wave the flag of bourgeois islamo-fascists. No war but the Class war.

john
So I read in the paper that the good guys won the war, and the red star won't be shining over moscow anymore, and my heart fell like a sparrow in the midst of my despair, when i saw la passionara with a flower in her hair
Soviet cogitations: 890
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 22 Feb 2004, 19:46
Komsomol
Post 03 May 2004, 10:57
I still think that the chance of the establishment of a secular republic is present. I also doubt that most of the Iraqi warriors are fighting for an Islamic republic.
thank you for letting me be myself and you be yours
Soviet cogitations: 572
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 19 Jan 2004, 19:01
Komsomol
Post 03 May 2004, 15:59
That's up to speculation, but regardless of what they think they are fighting for, that would be the end result as it is precisely those elements that are supporting and controlling the resistance fighters.

Just because some of the more outspoken Iraqis support an iran-like totalitarian islamic state, doesn't mean the rest would knowingly support it either.
Soviet cogitations: 148
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 02 May 2004, 18:28
Pioneer
Post 03 May 2004, 16:53
Petrovich wrote:
That's up to speculation, but regardless of what they think they are fighting for, that would be the end result as it is precisely those elements that are supporting and controlling the resistance fighters.

Just because some of the more outspoken Iraqis support an iran-like totalitarian islamic state, doesn't mean the rest would knowingly support it either.


Considering that most authoritarian regimes require something like the support of 25-40% of the population for some degree of legitimacy and an armed party militia i'd say that enough iraqis do suport an Islamic Republic unfortunately

john
So I read in the paper that the good guys won the war, and the red star won't be shining over moscow anymore, and my heart fell like a sparrow in the midst of my despair, when i saw la passionara with a flower in her hair
Soviet cogitations: 1526
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 24 Jan 2004, 10:30
Party Member
Post 03 May 2004, 16:59
well, if the people want such a state, why is it "unfortunate"?
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Soviet cogitations: 148
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 02 May 2004, 18:28
Pioneer
Post 03 May 2004, 17:24
Antartis wrote:
well, if the people want such a state, why is it "unfortunate"?


i said 30% of the people might want it, in the same way that 30% or so of germans wanted a nazi state in 1933.

it is very unfortunate that a large part of the iraqi population has been diverted towards reactionary politics

john
So I read in the paper that the good guys won the war, and the red star won't be shining over moscow anymore, and my heart fell like a sparrow in the midst of my despair, when i saw la passionara with a flower in her hair
Soviet cogitations: 1526
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 24 Jan 2004, 10:30
Party Member
Post 03 May 2004, 17:27
if that 30% is a majority, however. ie. 30% islamic republic, 25% USA, 10% republic, 5% saddam, and so
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