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Vietnam's Ideology

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Soviet cogitations: 251
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 18 Nov 2010, 13:37
Komsomol
Post 27 Nov 2011, 13:14
OK, firstly I wanna say sorry if this topic has been discussed before.

This is my friend's question (and I couldn't answer it) when I had little discussion with him :

What kind of socialism / communism variant which applied in Vietnam? Is it Stalinist? Maoist? or maybe Titoist?

Thanks for the explanation comrades !
Inggris Kita Linggis, Amerika Kita Setrika ! -Sukarno-
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Soviet cogitations: 10005
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 14 Jul 2008, 20:01
Ideology: Trotskyism
Philosophized
Post 28 Nov 2011, 02:39
Late Soviet-style Marxism-Leninism. In the same way China is Maoist.
"Don't know why i'm still surprised with this shit anyway." - Loz
Soviet cogitations: 124
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 19 Mar 2012, 00:06
Unperson
Post 23 Mar 2012, 11:50
Vietnam should had made incisive adjustments in its 1st and 2nd 5 Year Plans by releasing its 'market forces' unhampered when the communists won. Instead they mass-deported almost everybody to collective farms. Look how stable Vietnam is now. The stories of how generals spend 1/2 of their salary for 2 pounds of meat sold at black market are now gone. Thanks to the brilliant economists of Vietnam who finally managed their collective farms by applying economic theories, statistical evaluations including Operations Research which is also a branch of mathematics. More power to General Giap. May he live longer!
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Soviet cogitations: 172
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 28 Feb 2012, 16:12
Ideology: Left Communism
Pioneer
Post 08 Apr 2012, 01:12
They're theoretically Khruschev style Marxist-Leninists. After the collapse of the USSR, the state of the Vietnamese productive forces and its relative international isolation forced them to undergo a chinese-style long NEP, so they're technically state capitalist. The real test for Vietnam will come when the productive forces are developed enough to make the jump to socialism... Or decide against.

I'm afraid at the moment of truth the Vietnamese leadership will decide against... And I'm not sure whether the Vietnamese proletariat will have the strength to force'em to.

In all likelihood Vietnam, just like China, will need a Cultural Revolution (or similar process) to get back on track.
Cm'on baby, eat the rich!!! - Motörhead
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Soviet cogitations: 4415
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Oct 2004, 22:04
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Resident Soviet
Post 08 Apr 2012, 03:18
KlassWar wrote:
They're theoretically Khruschev style Marxist-Leninists. After the collapse of the USSR, the state of the Vietnamese productive forces and its relative international isolation forced them to undergo a chinese-style long NEP, so they're technically state capitalist.


Khrushchev's USSR was a state capitalist country? Where, before the late 1980s, was the post-Stalin equivalent of NEP? Also, Do Moi was conceptualized and begun in the early 1980s, presumably because the planned economy oddly wasn't adequately performing the task of rebuilding the country and developing its productive forces. A functional version of NEP precludes Vietnam from being classed 'Soviet-style', unless we're talking about the Soviet Union of the 1920s.

KlassWar wrote:
In all likelihood Vietnam, just like China, will need a Cultural Revolution (or similar process) to get back on track.


The Cultural Revolution did nothing to save China from 'capitalist roaders'. On the contrary, it can be argued that its destructive effects on all aspects of politics, economy, and Chinese society ensured that the political elite and the country at large were willing to begin traveling on a 'pragmatist', NEP-style path. I have never understood how there can still be proponents of the Cultural Revolution, given its consequences and its absolute failure to save the country from 'revisionism'.

It's difficult to prescribe what a NEP-style socioeconomic system needs to advance to socialism when productive forces are sufficiently developed. The USSR was a unique case, and the NEP's successes there were of a totally different caliber compared to what is occurring in China and Vietnam. Perhaps the best thing to hope for is that the left of the Communist Party is never marginalized, and that they gain sufficient influence (through peoples' expression of anger to the problems caused by the continuation of capitalist development) to take power peacefully in each case and to change course. A new cultural revolution in either Vietnam or China today would only destroy economic and political potential, and result in the infiltration of foreign interests (primarily American and European) just waiting for the opportunity once again to impoverish Vietnam and to smash China into several manageable pieces.
"The thing about capitalism is that it sounds awful on paper and is horrendous in practice. Communism sounds wonderful on paper and when it was put into practice it was done pretty well for what they had to work with." -MiG
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Soviet cogitations: 172
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 28 Feb 2012, 16:12
Ideology: Left Communism
Pioneer
Post 08 Apr 2012, 12:06
Sorry if my last post was confusing!

When I meant Khruschev-Style, I meant "soft" M-L, politically and culturally. Vietnam, to my knowledge, has never been especially Stalinist: They came to power in the '60s, when Stalinist politics were not much in vogue anymore. They haven't been known for bloody purges after taking power, and IIRC censorship in Vietnam isn't particularly totalitarian either.

Russia didn't ever NEED a second NEP. Vietnam didn't either, for as long as they could rely on Soviet fraternal aid: Vietnam tried to go forward with a planned economy, but when the USSR started turning its back on allies during the years of traitor Gorby, they were no longer materially able to continue on the path of State-socialist economics... So they went on a long strategic retreat and implemented Doi Moi a long NEP. They had little other choice. And it's worked, the productive forces have developed immensely. I'd wager than in ten to fifteen years Vietnam's productive forces will be developed enough to implement actual socialism. Considering the material conditions, you can hardly blame'em.

Still, I have little faith that a leadership that's prospered under decades of state capitalism will suddenly decide that it's in their interests to move back towards socialism (I think my fears are founded: China's been state capitalist for 4 decades and counting. They provide most of the fragging world with consumer goods and they've got significant heavy industry. Do they really need to wait for productive forces to develop even further before getting back to socialism?). That's why I believe that once the productive forces are developed enough to make socialism possible, if peaceful debate within the party and society doesn't give the Leftists victory, they should take over forcibly anyway, supported by the leftist faction of the masses.


But you're probably right: Perhaps the best hope for Vietnam is entirely peaceful reform: Capitalism is unsustainable anyway, so once they hit a crisis a sharp turn Left will look like the best option (considering the disastrous crisis in the capitalist world and the brutal injustices perpetrated by its rightist management, they're likely to win a regular propaganda campaign anyway
.)
Cm'on baby, eat the rich!!! - Motörhead
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Soviet cogitations: 48
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 17 May 2012, 00:16
Ideology: Democratic Socialism
Pioneer
Post 17 May 2012, 05:04
Mixed market economy. Opened up privatization in the late 90's and are advancing to a more Chinese model of capitalism.
★I AM A PROGRESSIVE SOCIALIST IN FAVOR OF DEMOCRACY★"
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Soviet cogitations: 100
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 24 May 2012, 00:32
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Pioneer
Post 24 May 2012, 00:38
The CPV from 1986 undertook a process called "Doi Moi" , meaning "Renewal". The goal of this process is to develop the productions forces and make Viet Nam a modern and industrialised country by 2020.

The vietnamese communist termed the current era as the first stage of socialism, or first stage on road to socialism.

They uphold Marxism-Leninism and Ho Chi Minh Thought as their guiding ideology.

The CPV recently held its 11th congress.

Viva Dang cong san Viet Nam!
The Paris Communards struggled and died in the defense of their ideas. The banners of the revolution and of socialism are not surrendered without a fight. Only cowards and the demoralized surrender — never Communists and other revolutionaries.
tdn
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Soviet cogitations: 28
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 25 Apr 2014, 11:15
Pioneer
Post 25 Apr 2014, 11:39
volksPolizei wrote:
OK, firstly I wanna say sorry if this topic has been discussed before.

This is my friend's question (and I couldn't answer it) when I had little discussion with him :

What kind of socialism / communism variant which applied in Vietnam? Is it Stalinist? Maoist? or maybe Titoist?

Thanks for the explanation comrades !



The kind of "socialism" Viet Nam is practicing is officially termed "socialist-oriented market economy". It is basically very similar to China although I'd say the state-owned enterprises in Viet Nam are less efficient.

Historically, Viet Nam was under influence from both the USSR and China. The period of 1954 - 1956 saw strong Chinese influence in Vietnamese politics with a Cultural Revolution-styled land reform. Unlike the Chinese version, the North Vietnamese land reform only lasted for two years: the land was of course re-distributed to the farmers but public trials/executions ended in 1956 with Ho Chi Minh publicly apologized to the nation for the horrible, out-of-control consequences of some measures during the land reform.

From the late 1950s up until 1986, Viet Nam closely followed the Soviet model. The land that had just been re-distributed to the farmers was quickly collectivized and/or nationalized, the economy became tightly planned and controlled by the central government, and minimal (if not none) private economy existed.

Since 1986, Viet Nam adopted a reform program after Mikhail Gorbachyov launched Glasnost and Perestroika in the USSR. However, horrified by what happened in the Soviet Union in the late 1980s and early 1990s, the Vietnamese leadership re-affirmed Marxism-Leninism as the "official ideology" and carried out their economic reform in a more similar manner to that of China (economic reform before political one).
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