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communist vs communist ?

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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 24 Jan 2011, 17:09
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Post 06 Jul 2011, 13:28
Is China going to make war with Vietnam just to capture our 2 little islands ?
even if the 2 islands were belong to them, why do they have to wait for such a long time, no warning and suddenly claim for their own ?
when both them and us have the same communism ideal ?
The basic of Communism ideals are : peace and solidarity, right ?
So communism doesn't mean anything to them ?
Are there any chinese comrades here have a good explanation ?
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 12 May 2010, 07:43
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Post 06 Jul 2011, 15:09
I'm currently in China, and while I don't know what you're hearing in Vietnam, I'm not hearing anything about war at all here. Like the only thing mentioned in the media recently is concern over the US holding (or planning to hold) joint military operations/exercizes with Vietnam and building closer ties. China's biggest concerns in the Pacific still revolve around the Korean Peninsula, but the leadership is afraid of things like US using China's neighbors as proxies for encirclement. Aside from that, the PRC government is not talking about war, and I doubt that they'd want war at this point. If they were thinking about war, there would be considerably more rhetoric in the major news, as opposed to what is happening now, with some analysts talking about Vietnam in an inconclusive manner on a show for people who are interested in international military affairs. Also, if the prospects of war were real and imminent, we would hear a lot about it in the Western media too, but there's barely anything about this from them either. So, no, I don't think there will be war. There's not enough serious indications that there will be.
“Conservatism is the blind and fear-filled worship of dead radicals” - Mark Twain
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 24 Jan 2011, 17:09
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Post 06 Jul 2011, 17:00
Yeah I see ... Thanks comrade.
Sometime, I have an odd feeling that they are planning something secretly. The PRC can't just tell us that they're going to make war for any reason . However, they still try to make reasons and persuade their people to stand by their side ! ( even our people )
Last month, some of unknown chinese hackers had just attacked nearly 1500 of our website to show off their war propaganda craps . ( and yes, our hackers did the same thing to them as a counter attack
)
I don't know how the people in china are but in our country, many young people are so willing to fight to prevent china from invasion .
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 14 Jul 2008, 20:01
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Post 06 Jul 2011, 17:13
I don't think China even cares that much about Vietnam. Why should they invade?
"Don't know why i'm still surprised with this shit anyway." - Loz
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 12 May 2010, 07:43
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Post 06 Jul 2011, 17:19
My impression is that people in China don't really want to fight Vietnam, and I don't think the government does either. They (both the general public and the government) are more concerned about the US presence in the Pacific, especially in Japan and South Korea, as well as the situation in North Korea (how stable it is, how to deal with refugees should anything bad happen, what if the US and its allies in the region attack the DPRK, what if the DPRK does something that provokes an attack, etc). It's because Obama or members of the Obama Administration have been visiting some of the countries in the Asia-Pacific region, including Vietnam, I believe, that they're uneasy.

Overall people feel that there's really nothing to gain. They don't dislike the Vietnamese, just as they don't dislike the Russians, despite the Sino-Soviet Split and border conflicts. Even though there were conflicts and disagreements, there aren't that many hard feelings nowadays, because the Chinese still feel that neighboring countries with similar histories of being mistreated by the West are friendlier. They harbor a greater distrust of the US, NATO, and countries aligned with that group. The people like the other countries in Asia or Eastern Europe more, and the CCP is more concerned with stability, so it is not likely to want to drive the country to war, especially if the war proves unpopular.

Mabool wrote:
I don't think China even cares that much about Vietnam. Why should they invade?

The issue at hand is that there's been some disputes over a couple of islands and whether or not they are in Chinese or Vietnamese waters. This border dispute has been going on for a while now, but it's been mostly "dormant" and only recently revived because of the Obama Administration's recent attempts to forge closer ties with Asian countries around China.
“Conservatism is the blind and fear-filled worship of dead radicals” - Mark Twain
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 24 Jan 2011, 17:09
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Post 06 Jul 2011, 18:35
Wow... So while US was the main cause, we thought they're willing to help us as "a friend". Darn it ! They'll just never change. having a cold war with china and we have to suffer from it ( like "when buffalo and ox fight one another, flies and mosquitoes die unjustly" )
However, is it also mean when China was angry of the US deeds in Asia Region, they'll just take it out on us by doing things and cause troubles like that ? ( so they can both show off their power, give a warning to the US or just "punish" us because we are friend with the US ? )
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 12 May 2010, 07:43
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Post 09 Jul 2011, 12:22
Chinese media are barely mentioning this anymore. Like there's virtually nothing on national news, and it's basically not a big deal. Once again, the Chinese people do not dislike the Vietnamese and have no real interest in fighting a neighbor, and the government realizes this and doesn't want to fight or even "punish" anyone, because that is not at all beneficial to regional stability or foreign ties.

Also, there's no cold war, because PRC and the US do not view each other as enemies in the same way that the US and the USSR did, and they are not engaging in the same sort of behavior as either of the superpowers during 1945-1991.

Also, why the frag would anyone that's not a Western bourgeois state ever trust the U.S. when the entire MO of U.S. foreign policy is basically play "divide and conquer" by supporting smaller non-Western countries to counter other larger, relatively strong non-Western countries, and then discarding the smaller countries when they are no longer needed? I just don't understand, especially Vietnam, which has been the victim of American aggression in recent years. China is a trading partner with the U.S. but simply does not trust the American government. If you are not a "Western democracy" the US is pretty much not your "friend" as a general principle.
“Conservatism is the blind and fear-filled worship of dead radicals” - Mark Twain
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 12 May 2010, 07:43
Ideology: Other Leftist
Politburo
Post 09 Jul 2011, 12:22
Chinese media are barely mentioning this anymore. Like there's virtually nothing on national news, and it's basically not a big deal. Once again, the Chinese people do not dislike the Vietnamese and have no real interest in fighting a neighbor, and the government realizes this and doesn't want to fight or even "punish" anyone, because that is not at all beneficial to regional stability or foreign ties.

Also, there's no cold war, because PRC and the US do not view each other as enemies in the same way that the US and the USSR did, and they are not engaging in the same sort of behavior as either of the superpowers during 1945-1991.

Also, why the frag would anyone that's not a Western bourgeois state ever trust the U.S. when the entire MO of U.S. foreign policy is basically play "divide and conquer" by supporting smaller non-Western countries to counter other larger, relatively strong non-Western countries, and then discarding the smaller countries when they are no longer needed? I just don't understand, especially Vietnam, which has been the victim of American aggression in recent years. China is a trading partner with the U.S. but simply does not trust the American government. If you are not a "Western democracy" the US is pretty much not your "friend" as a general principle.
“Conservatism is the blind and fear-filled worship of dead radicals” - Mark Twain
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 24 Jan 2011, 17:09
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Post 11 Jul 2011, 03:47
Yeah You're right. It's good to hear that China still treat us as a neighbor (a just too optimistic neighbor )

However, There must be something wrong about the media in my country. They just keep telling about the east sea troubles ( mostly included US and Philippines involving ) and still see China as "troubles maker" . That just creates more and more suspicious and hating between us and chinese people
I hope they will make it clear soon.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 13 Feb 2008, 15:25
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Post 11 Jul 2011, 04:25
China is now the second largest economy in the world. If I were the government of Vietnam, I might feel a little threatened by this rising power on my northern border not to mention China and Vietnam's past relationship. That said, I don't see why Vietnam should treat China like an enemy. Why not sit down at the negotiating table and hammer out some kind of agreement concerning these disputed territories. Both countries have much more in common than they don't. Why be enemies?
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 24 Jan 2011, 17:09
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Post 11 Jul 2011, 05:31
You didn't know ?
1st, They suddenly claim our 2 islands ( and a part of our east sea territory ) for their own with no suitable reason.
2nd, We got enough historical information, evidence,...ect to protect the ownership of our territory. They also got ones too but they're all fake and unacceptable
There are many negotiations but China still insist.
3rd, We don't want to be their enemy
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 12 May 2010, 07:43
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Post 11 Jul 2011, 06:46
van56567 wrote:
1st, They suddenly claim our 2 islands ( and a part of our east sea territory ) for their own with no suitable reason.
2nd, We got enough historical information, evidence,...ect to protect the ownership of our territory. They also got ones too but they're all fake and unacceptable
There are many negotiations but China still insist.
3rd, We don't want to be their enemy

A few questions:
Why is Chinese evidence unacceptable and fake, when in fact because of the location, it's far more likely that the islands have changed hands at various points and have been under the control of both? With this under consideration, why are Chinese evidence fake and unacceptable but Vietnamese ones trustworthy, if both countries want to push for an agenda? What I am getting at here is that if both sides want to push for a point of view, they will bring out evidence while trying to disprove the other side's, even if the other side's argument has merit.

Furthermore, why are the Vietnamese media demonising the Chinese when the Chinese media (from what I have seen on CCTV) do not play up tensions and instead try to focus on the positive relations between China and other countries? You say the Vietnamese people don't want the Chinese to be enemies, but in fact the Chinese people are the ones who are being confused by the hostile sentiments coming from Vietnam, because even nationalistic Chinese do not want war with a neighbor that was the victim of US military aggression and see Vietnam as having more common grounds with the Chinese, so why then are your media playing up the tensions and calling the Chinese troublemakers? Obviously if you go on the internet, there will be some very vocal nationalists who will be expressing hostile sentiments, but that is not the mainstream opinion in China.

Do you see what I'm getting at here? I understand that a smaller country might not trust the larger country, especially given past history. I also understand that neither side wants to relinquish claims because this will make people in their own country angry. On the whole, however, the Chinese government has no desire to see regional instability and war in Asia, especially against a neighbor, and especially not over a couple of islands, when there are other issues to deal with, such as the US making allies with ex-Soviet countries and having troops stationed in Central Asia and the Pacific. As for the claims to the islands, they didn't happen suddenly, but have been there for a very long time and were unresolved problems from the Cold War. I don't know who is right or wrong, and border disputes are things that happen all the time and almost always get resolved without war, but I am a bit disturbed by what I am hearing coming from Vietnam.
“Conservatism is the blind and fear-filled worship of dead radicals” - Mark Twain
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 13 Feb 2008, 15:25
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Politburo
Post 11 Jul 2011, 07:25
It's almost as if out of irrational fear, Vietnam is running right into the arms of the USA if what little I've read is correct. Am I wrong about this?
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 24 Jan 2011, 17:09
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Post 12 Jul 2011, 04:30
I don't sure... The islands can be both belong to China and Vietnam or maybe our media exaggerated a little (mostly newspaper ). They may just make things more and more complicate and confusing ( there must be something wrong )
In my opinion, just like you, there's no need to fight each other for such a problem . However, the problem started from the "Chinese fishing aggression" then they just go further and further to a dispute.
and after just a few weeks, the US came to us as a helper and until now they are still expressing their helping

I'm really surprised that Chinese media don't even mention a thing about this while we are ( even the US media ). is there a big missunderstanding ?
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 13 Feb 2008, 15:25
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Post 12 Jul 2011, 05:08
Why can't China and Vietnam fish in the same waters and share territorial ownership and administration of the area? I wish Australia was a Socialist country. I'd love for us to be a neutral mediator in this dispute.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 29 Jul 2011, 03:02
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Post 29 Jul 2011, 04:46
Fellow Comrade wrote:
Why can't China and Vietnam fish in the same waters and share territorial ownership and administration of the area? I wish Australia was a Socialist country. I'd love for us to be a neutral mediator in this dispute.


Well, what the PRC seek in the South China Sea aren't just fishes, but oils, gases and a strategic trading route. If you read the news, PRC claims almost the entire body water of South China Sea as their own, marking their claims within what is known as the nine-dotted line, which overlaps with virtually every other country in the region.

Komissar_KW wrote:
Why is Chinese evidence unacceptable and fake


I'm not going to say the same thing like van56567, but they (the PRC) always say they have undisputed ownership over most of the South China Sea, but they didn't show any actual proofs to support that claim, that leave alot to be desired.

Komissar_KW wrote:
Furthermore, why are the Vietnamese media demonising the Chinese when the Chinese media (from what I have seen on CCTV) do not play up tensions and instead try to focus on the positive relations between China and other countries? You say the Vietnamese people don't want the Chinese to be enemies, but in fact the Chinese people are the ones who are being confused by the hostile sentiments coming from Vietnam, because even nationalistic Chinese do not want war with a neighbor that was the victim of US military aggression and see Vietnam as having more common grounds with the Chinese, so why then are your media playing up the tensions and calling the Chinese troublemakers? Obviously if you go on the internet, there will be some very vocal nationalists who will be expressing hostile sentiments, but that is not the mainstream opinion in China.


Both the Vietnamese and the Chinese are being blindfolded by their official media, The situation is more worse than you might think, China ships cut cables of Vietnam ships (Bình Minh 2 and Viking 2) when those ship are in the EEZ of Vietnam, China ships capture Vietnamese sailor ships and confiscate their fishes, sometimes even beating Vietnamese sailors and demand a fee for them to be released (I bet China media don't talk about such incidents). There are many anti-China protests and demonstrations in Vietnam happened recently and the regime are always trying to oppress or hide the fact that the hatred for China is deep rooted into may Vietnamese since naval battles in 1974 and 1988, I don't know about China media but judging from many comments in an independent online-newspaper it seems that, although secretly, some Chinese believe those islands were originally belong to China and some even went so far as to claim Vietnam itself was once part of the "mother China".
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