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 27 May 2013, 23:04
I'd like to hear your views on the fact that in the last 30 years of the Cold War (1960 - 1990) the main difference between American spies (Russians spying for the USA) and Soviet spies (Americans or other Westerners spying for the KGB) that the first did it on ideological grounds (and materialist reasons were second) whereas the latter only did it to make money and never out of ideological grounds.
Soviet cogitations: 12389
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 18 Apr 2010, 04:44 Ideology: None Philosophized 27 May 2013, 23:55
Er, well, you've pretty much hit it straight on the head. There's really not much to add!
Do you want to talk about specific cases, such as the Rosenbergs? Or Kim Philby? Miss Strangelove: "You feed giants laxatives so goblins can mine their poop before the gnomes get to it."
28 May 2013, 04:13
Comrade Gulper wrote:For the most part it was true, but there were some definite scoundrels assisting the USSR (and later Russian) intelligence services: Robert Hanssen is probably the one I'm most familiar with. There's a movie which is actually not too terrible, but it makes you realize just how much of a moron this guy was. He had absolutely no ideological motivation in working for the USSR (or Russia) - it was exclusively about the money. He was a devout Catholic and even involved himself with Opus Dei. According to the anecdotes: Quote:
Soviet cogitations: 2051
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 24 Jun 2011, 08:37 Party Bureaucrat 28 May 2013, 17:34
A lot of americans that spied for the soviets seem to have done so for money. There's a certain irony in having the communists paying your gambling debts, I suppose.
There were plenty of communists in the US, but they were rarely in positions of influence. Soviet America is Free America!
Under communism, there is no freedom; you are not free to live in poverty, be homeless, to be without an education, to starve, or to be without a job 28 May 2013, 20:45
Comrade Gulper wrote: There must've been something really wrong that capitalists got their best spies due to ideological reasons (pro-Western stance) and Soviets not a single one like that. 19 Jul 2013, 03:58
So who spied for the US due to ideological reasons?
19 Jul 2013, 12:36
YGB85 wrote: From the top of my head: Oleg Penkovsky in early 60s; Oleg Gordievsky in early 80s. Seems like if you worked for the KGB and your name was Oleg, you were a foreign asset 19 Jul 2013, 21:22
You sure they spied for ideological reasons?
What ideological reasons? 19 Jul 2013, 22:02
YGB85 wrote: "Penkovsky showed dissatisfaction in the Soviet Union's communist system of government." (Volkman, Warriors 98). "Penkovsky had become increasingly disillusioned with the Soviet system, particularly with the leadership of Nikita Khrushchev. In April 1961, through Greville M. Wynne, a British businessman, he offered his services to British intelligence. " Brittanica. 24 Jul 2013, 02:45
Well that is vague and is probably said to make him look good in the West.
People who decide to spy against their country usually do it for selfish reasons. Penkovsky was upset that he was not promoted: "Oleg Penkovsky believed that he would never be promoted to field rank in Soviet military intelligence because his father had fought for the White Russians against the Bolsheviks in the 1920s." |
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