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Florida v. Cuba.

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Soviet cogitations: 6887
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 30 Nov 2007, 08:37
Unperson
Post 01 Feb 2009, 20:21
The carriers are next to useless. Cuba is too close. But their airwings would make a significant difference.
banistansig1
Soviet cogitations: 163
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 23 Jan 2009, 15:02
Pioneer
Post 01 Feb 2009, 23:21
Yes , but Florida would be able to project power on a greater scale with the carriers, and strike at any South American Allies.
Soviet cogitations: 6887
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 30 Nov 2007, 08:37
Unperson
Post 02 Feb 2009, 02:02
What S.A. allies are seriously going to get involved in a war with even a part of the former USA?
banistansig1
Soviet cogitations: 163
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 23 Jan 2009, 15:02
Pioneer
Post 03 Feb 2009, 00:45
Well possibly Venezuela, thier defense spending has risen, recent Naval trianing exercises. They might want to increase thier sphere of influence. Then again its hypothetical situation.
Soviet cogitations: 6887
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 30 Nov 2007, 08:37
Unperson
Post 03 Feb 2009, 01:33
Venezuela is in no position to project power on any level. Their recent rise in spending is barely enough to replace their obsolete equipment as it's getting phazed out. They might do an oil embargo, but even that is questionable. Not to mention we don't know what will happen after Chavez leaves power.
banistansig1
[+-]
Soviet cogitations: 26
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 25 Jan 2009, 15:17
Pioneer
Post 19 Mar 2009, 02:49
The hypothetical changed in the course of this thread. Amusing.

In addition to the military of Cuber and Florida, lets have a look at the general population that the attacker might need to subdue:

There are 18.2 million citizens living in Florida at last count.

There are 11.5 million citizens in Cuber.

483,600 Floridians hold Concealed Carry Permits. Figure each of those permit holders own at least one handgun and probably a rifle or shotgun. So he hands a weapon to his neighbor, and another neighbor has gone to buy a rifle down at WalMart after hearing a rumor about Cuban paratroops in Key West...

Under Florida Statute 250.02, these armed citizens are militia, or "state troops," and can be called upon by the governor.

FS 250.02 Militia.--
(1) The militia consists of all able-bodied citizens of this state and all other able-bodied persons who have declared their intention to become citizens.
(2) The organized militia is composed of the National Guard and any other organized military forces that are authorized by law.
(3) The unorganized militia is composed of all persons who are subject to military duty but who are not members of units of the organized militia.
(4) Only persons exempt from military duty by the terms of federal law are exempt from military duty in this state.

So in addition to the FANG you have approximately 1.5 million irregular troops under arms looking for a National Guardsman or police officer to lead him/her into battle. (Not to mention the other 2 or 3 million armed Floridians that don't hold Concealed Carry Permits. I couldn't find figures for that so it is an educated guess).

The citizens of Cuber are armed with... nothing. And if the Cubans even had extra small arms laying around to issue, very few would know how to use them and there would be no time to train them.

I'm sure the Cubans would welcome their new Floridian masters with open arms. McDonalds, WalMart, and Levi's for all!!
Soviet Music Fan
Soviet cogitations: 6887
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 30 Nov 2007, 08:37
Unperson
Post 19 Mar 2009, 04:15
Rubbish. If you're the average floridan why do you have any interest in invading Cuba? And where do you get the Navy to launch that kind of an invasion?
banistansig1
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 2820
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 16 Feb 2005, 02:51
Party Bureaucrat
Post 19 Mar 2009, 14:09
I would assume that if you are an average American gun nut, you would be quite keen on shooting dirty commies. As to transporting them, The real navy can take out coastal defence and secure a beach head, then the gun nuts can be transported by what ever floats. But with all the varieties of weapons carried by such an militia, it will be a logistic nightmare.

However, small arms will be widely available in Cuba in case of war, as the Cuban military adopted the "people's war" strategy after the end of Soviet support, over one million militia with some military training can be mobilised at a short notice.
Image
Soviet cogitations: 6887
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 30 Nov 2007, 08:37
Unperson
Post 19 Mar 2009, 21:24
Seriously. How many Floridian gun nuts would sign up to go fight a war?

Right now it's quite easy for them to sign up to go shoot some dirty ayrabs in Afghan or Iraq. Just join the military. But the military is having a recruitment crisis.
So there obviously aren't that many people interested in going overseas and fighting.
banistansig1
Soviet cogitations: 163
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 23 Jan 2009, 15:02
Pioneer
Post 20 Mar 2009, 00:04
In Florida we dont go around hating of Cuba. Are Governors, Mayors, and elected officals lobby to ease trade and travel restrictions all the time. I would love to go to CUBA on vacation I here it is very pretty. There is no large public outcry for OPERATION CUBAN FREEDOM. The down side is there is a large Cuban Exile community in Florida. They are well funded and could be a spring board for operation OCF. Naval assests could be Nationalized from the various ports that dot are lovely state. Mayport is a large Naval base, there is a MPF depoy in jacksonville, and large airlift could be planned from the various airbases in Florida if: 1 suppression of air defenses, 2 Florida can somehow maintain Gitmo.



But lets hope there is no OCF.
[+-]
Soviet cogitations: 26
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 25 Jan 2009, 15:17
Pioneer
Post 20 Mar 2009, 00:09
Neither scenario would ever happen. Neither side has the inclination, first of all, to attack anyone, before you even get to the logistical impossibilities. The entire topic is rubbish.

Quote:
Here are the Parameters:

Florida only has the equipment of it's National Guard.

Cuba has the equipment it has now.

Discuss.


Answer: No one. Neither side could get boots on the ground. Not enough sealift, not enough airlift.

If you think Fidel/Raul has a plan to systematically issue small arms to the "peasant army" of Cuba, just how many AK's do you think he has laying around? Most have probably been exported. He knows good and well he doesn't need to waste money on small arms because the US will never attack Cuba. What possible purpose would it serve, other than to bankrupt us like Iraq and Afghanistan are doing already?

Also, there is certainly no need to resort to name calling in a hypothetical discussion.

Personally I'd favor normalization of relations, not conflict. The embargo serves no purpose, and I'm not sure it ever did. Bring on the cigars.
Soviet Music Fan
Soviet cogitations: 163
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 23 Jan 2009, 15:02
Pioneer
Post 20 Mar 2009, 05:14
THe Florida national guard or FLNG has a rather nice training area in northern Florida. They have everything from an urban warfare city to a IED simulators. Thr FLNG is a combat tested professional force. They have have done tours in Iraq and Afghanistan. MY unit USMCR shared a building with FLNG, they are a force to be reckoned with as with most reservists forces post 9-11. Do not think for a minute they are a second rate unit.
Soviet cogitations: 6887
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 30 Nov 2007, 08:37
Unperson
Post 20 Mar 2009, 09:28
They're second rate compared to regulars. They're not second rate compared to most of the worlds armed forces.
banistansig1
[+-]
Soviet cogitations: 26
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 25 Jan 2009, 15:17
Pioneer
Post 21 Mar 2009, 01:04
Chuck Norris is the only force capable of defeating the Florida national guard.



(lol)
Soviet Music Fan
Soviet cogitations: 6887
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 30 Nov 2007, 08:37
Unperson
Post 21 Mar 2009, 01:43
JimR this really doesn't belong in this forum. Do you have some serious info on the US National Guard? If not, please refrain from such commentary.
banistansig1
[+-]
Soviet cogitations: 26
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 25 Jan 2009, 15:17
Pioneer
Post 23 Mar 2009, 15:20
Forgive me, I wasn't aware you were conducting this thread to provide source material for your doctoral thesis. Cuba vs. Florida is a very serious discussion, after all...
Soviet Music Fan
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 215
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 13 Mar 2009, 04:41
Pioneer
Post 23 Mar 2009, 21:13
I wouldn't underestimate the people of Cuba, but they wouldn't have Fidels and Ches in their band now, that's for sure...

Honestly though, Florida would probably dominate - the levels of technology involved would be vastly different, unlike the vaguely similar levels of technology between Castro's forces and Batista's (since Castro was capturing Batista's stuff from the start).
"Discover your humanity and your love in revolution." -George Jackson
Soviet cogitations: 6887
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 30 Nov 2007, 08:37
Unperson
Post 24 Mar 2009, 04:28
Quote:
Forgive me, I wasn't aware you were conducting this thread to provide source material for your doctoral thesis. Cuba vs. Florida is a very serious discussion, after all


If you're not interested in serious discussion please post in the Cafe Mir. All I did was ask you politely to refrain from what is either trolling or spam. Both against the forum rules.

TheFern, I'm curious whether you think Florida has a means of delivering the troops to Cuba, and keeping them supplied throughout a protracted conflict?
banistansig1
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 215
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 13 Mar 2009, 04:41
Pioneer
Post 24 Mar 2009, 06:15
TheRussianLord wrote:
TheFern, I'm curious whether you think Florida has a means of delivering the troops to Cuba, and keeping them supplied throughout a protracted conflict?


If nothing else, I could imagine the National Guard commandeering some of the huge cruise liners we always have docked in our waters. That would certainly provide transportation and food, if 'our boys' couldn't get a hold of some real military vessels.
"Discover your humanity and your love in revolution." -George Jackson
Soviet cogitations: 6887
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 30 Nov 2007, 08:37
Unperson
Post 24 Mar 2009, 06:28
True. I guess we need further qualifiers. Can Florida nationalize private assets such as private shipping vessels? What's the goal of the invasion? What's the situation on other borders of Florida?
banistansig1
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