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The Invasion of Kuwait.

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User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 3711
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Jul 2006, 04:49
Ideology: Juche
Old Bolshevik
Post 19 Oct 2008, 07:03
Does anybody have anything about the Invasion of Kuwait in 1990 that is preferably pro-Iraqi. I would really like to see the other side of the story. Thanks in advance.
Soviet cogitations: 6887
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 30 Nov 2007, 08:37
Unperson
Post 19 Oct 2008, 09:13
Pro-Iraqi? You mean pro-brutal religious/fascist dictatorship? Or do you want actual military analysis?
Soviet cogitations: 495
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 03 Mar 2008, 02:36
Komsomol
Post 19 Oct 2008, 12:52
The West were correct to kick Saddam out of Kuwait, thats pretty much end of story.
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 3711
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Jul 2006, 04:49
Ideology: Juche
Old Bolshevik
Post 19 Oct 2008, 22:13
Quote:
Pro-Iraqi? You mean pro-brutal religious/fascist dictatorship? Or do you want actual military analysis?


I already have an actual military analysis. I just need the point of view of the Iraqis. Is it su evil to actually want to see the other side of the story?

Quote:
The West were correct to kick Saddam out of Kuwait, thats pretty much end of story.


I bet they were also right to invade Iraq and Afghanistan and install puppet governments, right?
Soviet cogitations: 3448
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 26 Jun 2006, 15:59
Ideology: Other Leftist
Party Bureaucrat
Post 19 Oct 2008, 22:22
Saddam's dictatorship wasn't "fascists" and was rather secular when compared with the surrounding countries.
The moment one accepts the notion of 'totalitarianism', one is firmly locked within the liberal-democratic horizon. - Slavoj Žižek
Soviet cogitations: 495
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 03 Mar 2008, 02:36
Komsomol
Post 19 Oct 2008, 22:27
Quote:
I bet they were also right to invade Iraq and Afghanistan and install puppet governments, right?


There is a difference between punishing a clear aggressor and forcible, imperialist regime change.

(Which was, funnily enough, what Saddam was trying to do in Kuwait)

We communists cannot fall into the trap of thinking any anti-western crackpot is an ally. Saddam clearly violated the sovereignty of Kuwait for economic gain, and was prepared to inflict civilian casualties to do so.
Soviet cogitations: 1533
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Oct 2007, 15:55
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Party Member
Post 19 Oct 2008, 22:47
Not siding with Saddam, but isn't it soley the U.S.'s fault for selling Sadam weapons to go to war with Iran?
We have beaten you to the moon, but you have beaten us in sausage making.- Nikita Khrushchev
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Soviet cogitations: 8199
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 26 Jun 2006, 02:51
Embalmed
Post 19 Oct 2008, 23:42
I share Misuzu's interest in Iraq's reasoning and justification.

Saddam Hussein apparently claimed that oil was being stolen from Iraq, and then there's the justification that Kuwait was/is part of the Iraqi nation and was just cut off to give the British easy access to oil. This is basically stuff you could find on wiki so I'd like to see a more developed argument.

Edit: My highschool history teacher claimed that there was a miscommunication between our diplomat and the Iraqi government, and our diplomat basically made it sound like we wouldn't take any action if Iraq invaded Kuwait. I don't know how true this is.
Soviet cogitations: 2848
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 21 Nov 2004, 20:31
Party Bureaucrat
Post 20 Oct 2008, 00:05
Quote:
but isn't it soley the U.S.'s fault for selling Sadam weapons to go to war with Iran?


No. Practically all Iraqi armament was either Soviet/Chinese with the notable exception of half of the fighter aircraft being French.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Jun 2005, 23:39
Politburo
Post 20 Oct 2008, 04:25
Quote:
There is a difference between punishing a clear aggressor and forcible, imperialist regime change.

lulz. Do you honestly believe that the US had no interest in the region besides 'punishing the aggressor'?
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'Soviet-Empire. 500% more methods than other leading brands.'
Soviet cogitations: 495
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 03 Mar 2008, 02:36
Komsomol
Post 20 Oct 2008, 12:18
Of course they had other interests, but Saddam's invasion was more negative than the intervention against him.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 12 Jun 2006, 02:14
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Politburo
Post 20 Oct 2008, 15:33
You should also keep in mind that the intervention, unlike the 2003 invasion, was approved by the UN. It was a reaction against a change in the status quo.
But indeed, it would be interesting to hear Irak's side, why were they forced to do that, and not solve the dispute with Kuwait peacefully.


"Where Argentina goes, Latin America will go".
Leonid Brezhnev

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Soviet cogitations: 6887
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 30 Nov 2007, 08:37
Unperson
Post 20 Oct 2008, 21:24
Look at the bigger picture, when judging American intervention. Which country invited the Americans in? Whose bases did they use? Who was threatened by the Iraqi's advance (other then Kuwait)? Who has more oil then Kuwait (or Iraq) by a long long margin? And who since then has become a loyal (for the most part) customer of American weapons?
Now you know what oil the Iraq war was fought over.
Soviet cogitations: 163
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 23 Jan 2009, 15:02
Pioneer
Post 26 Jan 2009, 03:04
I was in Kuwait in 2003, Kuwaitis where very pleased with us being there. Kuwaitis would come up to us and tell us to get revenge for them from the 1990 invasion. However several times we where warned that this neighborhood isnt safe for Americans.
There is a place in Kuwait where all of the military equipment from the famed highway to hell is stored. It looked like the inner layers of hell for soviet equipment, everything was burned, or virtually destroyed. Additionally while I was traveling I noticed abandoned equipment everywhere, ZSU 23, field pieces , and other assorted triple AAA units.
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 4510
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Oct 2004, 22:04
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Resident Soviet
Post 26 Jan 2009, 03:33
Quote:
then there's the justification that Kuwait was/is part of the Iraqi nation and was just cut off to give the British easy access to oil.


Yeah that's an interesting one. The difficulty I suppose is deciding when intervention is justified based on the map-carving done by European colonialists as they were leaving the various regions in the 1950s-1970s, deliberately carving out states which for one reason or another weren't aligned with national/ethnic realities. In my dream revision of history Nasser would be successful in his vision of an Arab Socialist Union stretching through all the Arab countries of the Middle East. Isn't it interesting that the US and European goal of fighting so fiercely against a secular progressive Arab world would result in so much hysteria in the modern period?

Quote:
You should also keep in mind that the intervention, unlike the 2003 invasion, was approved by the UN. It was a reaction against a change in the status quo.


I wonder how the USSR would have reacted if it hadn't turned soft and wasn't falling apart at that point. Would Hussein even has made such a gamble?

Quote:
I was in Kuwait in 2003, Kuwaitis where very pleased with us being there. Kuwaitis would come up to us and tell us to get revenge for them from the 1990 invasion. However several times we where warned that this neighborhood isnt safe for Americans.
There is a place in Kuwait where all of the military equipment from the famed highway to hell is stored. It looked like the inner layers of hell for soviet equipment, everything was burned, or virtually destroyed. Additionally while I was traveling I noticed abandoned equipment everywhere, ZSU 23, field pieces , and other assorted triple AAA units.


Wow, that's an interesting story. Welcome to the forum btw. Perhaps you can tell us more about your experiences.
"The thing about capitalism is that it sounds awful on paper and is horrendous in practice. Communism sounds wonderful on paper and when it was put into practice it was done pretty well for what they had to work with." -MiG
Soviet cogitations: 163
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 23 Jan 2009, 15:02
Pioneer
Post 27 Jan 2009, 01:37
I spent alot of time in both Kuwait, and Southern Iraq; Pre-invasion, during, and post-invasion (or liberation if you prefer). I spent time in the ports of Kuwait where the cavernous MPF ships came to unload (these ships where amazing) and virtually every military camp strung out on the border. When the great liberation began I was detached from port operations and attached to a smaller unit where I traveled extensively. I saw many interesting things, the deserted UN camps spread throughout Kuwait, apparently there was a DMZ along the border US troops where forbidden from encroaching 10km from Iraq. After the southern Iraq was liberated I noticed UN officials all over the place (not troops, burecrats). Frog 7 and Al samout 2 missiles are slightly frighting; as well as an RPG-7. T-55 or 54s litter the Southern Iraqi oil fields, turrets thrown about, or just the treads remain, burned out BMPs. Arms caches and where everywhere
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 25 Jan 2009, 15:17
Pioneer
Post 27 Jan 2009, 02:37
Disregard.
Soviet Music Fan
Soviet cogitations: 6887
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 30 Nov 2007, 08:37
Unperson
Post 27 Jan 2009, 11:25
Smitty did you happen to take any photos?
banistansig1
Soviet cogitations: 163
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 23 Jan 2009, 15:02
Pioneer
Post 28 Jan 2009, 00:31
Yes, but I only had a few disposable cameras. I do not know if its possible to use the negatives, and transfer to CD or DVD but I will try this weekend, That or scan them but I doubt the quality will be good. Either way Ill put a link up this weekend to once I do it. Bare with me they will be up soon. Sadly I think all my military pictures are on 35mm film.
Soviet cogitations: 6887
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 30 Nov 2007, 08:37
Unperson
Post 28 Jan 2009, 11:21
It's ok. Get what you can. I would love to see them. Thank you ahead of time.

If you need somewhere to upload them use photobucket.com and just post the direct links here with tags around it.
banistansig1
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