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They fought for Hitler - non German volunteers

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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 01 Oct 2010, 00:20
Ideology: Other
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Post 10 Jan 2012, 00:57
_______________

Source: http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=50

The source/site is non-political, its not a Nazi site. War crimes are listed and the general focus is on historical reliability.

Wikipedia uses the same source by the way.

Why this thread? Well recently there has been discussions going on at S-E as to who collaberated military with the Nazi regime (besides the axis powers). Figures have been brought forward. Questions have been asked.

In this opening posts I will list the non-axis Waffen SS divisions, their strength, origin and timeframe of operation.

Why the Waffen SS?

Answer: Because the vast majority of volunteers fought in the Waffen SS due to their high motivation and their blind obedience. They were young men seeking adventure and believing in Hitler. But that's just my opinion. It would be interesting to learn what other comrades think about this 'phenomenon'.

For detailed information, see: http://www.axishistory.com

____________________________________________

Waffen SS Division 'Wiking' - Active: 1940-1945 Strength: 17.374
Origin: Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Finland, Estonia, Holland, Flanders

Waffen SS Division 'Nordland' - Active: 1943-1945 Strength: 11,749
Origin: Denmark, Sweden

Waffen SS Division 'Handschar' - Active: 1943-1945 Strength: 21,065
Origin: Croatia

Waffen SS Division 'Galizien' - Active: 1944-1945 Strength: 22,000
Origin: Galicia

Waffen SS Division 'Lettische Nr.1' - Active: 1942-1945 Strength: 20,291
Origin: Latvia

Waffen SS Division 'Lettische Nr.2' - Active: 1944-1945 Strength: 10,592
Origin: Latvia

Waffen SS Division 'Estnische Nr.1' - Active: 1944-1945 Strength: 15,382
Origin: Estonia

Waffen SS Division 'Horst Wessel' - Active: 1944-1945 Strength: 11,000
Origin: Hungary

Waffen SS Division 'Maria Theresia' - Active: 1944 Strength: 8,000
Origin: Hungary

Waffen SS Division 'Skanderbeg' - Active: 1944-1945 Strength: 6,156
Origin: Albania

Waffen SS Division 'Kama' - Active: 1944 Strength: 2,199
Origin: Croatia

Waffen SS Division 'Nederland' - Active: 1945 Strength: 6,000
Origin: Holland

Waffen SS Division 'Karstjäger' - Active: 1944-1945 Strength: 3,000
Origin: Italy

Waffen SS Division 'Hunyadi'- Active: 1944-1945 Strength: 15,000
Origin: Hungary

Waffen SS Division 'Hungaria'- Active: 1944-1945 Strength: 13,000
Origin: Hungary

Waffen SS Division 'Langemarck'- Active: 1944-1945 Strength: 7,000
Origin: Flemish

Waffen SS Division 'Wallonien'- Active: 1944-1945 Strength: 4,000
Origin: Wallonia

Waffen SS Division 'RONA'- Active: 1944 Strength: 15,000
Origin: USSR

Waffen SS Division 'Italia'- Active: 1945 Strength: 15,000
Origin: Italy

Waffen SS Division 'Russische Nr.2'- Active: 1944-1945 Strength: 4,400
Origin: Belarus

Waffen SS Division 'Weissruthenische Nr.1'- Active: 1945 Strength: Unknown
Origin: Belarus

Waffen SS Division 'Böhmen-Mähren'- Active: 1944-1945 Strength: 11,000
Origin: Hungary

Waffen SS Division 'Charlemagne'- Active: 1945 Strength: Unknown
Origin: France

Waffen SS Division 'Landstorm Nederland'- Active: 1945 Strength: Unknown
Origin: Holland

Waffen SS Division 'Luetzow'- Active: 1945 Strength: Unknown
Origin: Hungary

1st SS Cossack Cavalry Division - Active: 1943-1945 Strength: Unknown
Origin: USSR

____________________________________________
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 30 Mar 2010, 01:20
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Post 10 Jan 2012, 03:14
What a disgraceful list.


Thanks for the info though. It looks like an interesting site - the information seems presented in an informative and non-emotional manner. It's funny that you can't take an interest without being mistaken for a Nazi. I've never understood that fascination which some have with the Germany Military of the Nazi Era - they had some smart uniforms, but I would have thought that most military buffs would be more interested in the fact that they lost.

If I'm understanding it correctly then, of the known numbers the Latvians provided the most volunteers. Given the relatively small population it's even more notable.
There didn't seem to be a separate entry for Lithuania so it may have included that area also though. (That's just a guess though.)

I guess to see the full significance of the numbers you would need to compare it to the overall population.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 01 Sep 2011, 20:03
Ideology: Other Leftist
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Post 23 Jan 2012, 00:56
[quote="Shigalyov"]What a disgraceful list.


I share your opinion. Thank God for the Red Army and Navy!

Still, the Axis History Forum is a good place to go to explore this dark topic. Certainly its better than some of the texts I have encountered over the years. Most notorious is the writer "Richard Landwher" whose article "The European Volunteer Movement in the Second World War" is a rallying call for Facists who love the Waffen SS. Good books that are more critical in tone is "Hitler's Renegades", (sorry I forget the author) and Charles Syndors' "Soldiers of Destruction". The later book is more about the German SS, rather than the non-German units.
Loz
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 06 Dec 2009, 23:17
Philosophized
Post 01 Feb 2012, 18:36
The Waffen SS Division 'Handschar' also known as "1st Croatian" was involved in one of the more interesting mutinies in the German armed forces in WW2.From what i know,it's the only serious SS mutiny ever,most likely the work of infiltrated communists.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/13th_Waffe ... er_1943.29

It was also the strongest and most formidable Muslim Axis military formation in the WW2 (the SS "Kama" was never really mobilized and the Albanian SS Div. "Skenderbeg" was worthless.) It was composed primarily (around 80%) of Bosnian Muslims (Bosniaks) as can be seen by their official headgear-the fez and insignia-an Oriental sword.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 01 Oct 2010, 00:20
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Post 01 Feb 2012, 21:21
That's very interesting - and correct! I wasn't aware of this until your post, so thank you. There aren't many reliable sources when it comes to Foreign Waffenn-SS divisions, much less about mutinies.

You are right about the insignia too.

P.S.: One of the most taboo topics is the number of French volunteers. As you may have noticed - the list includes the french Waffen-SS division 'Charlemagne' (i.e 'Karl der Grosse' or ' Charles the Great') but no info about the strength of that divisision. I now read the figure: 7,340 - but that was in late 1944-45. Known is: 'Charlemagne' was involved in the defense of Berlin to the very end.

BUT: Unconfirmed sources (I will try to find some who have credibility) speak of 40,000 - 60,000(?) (maybe more) French volunteers who fought in the regular Wehrmacht (not Waffen SS) from 1940 onwards. Of course this is a hot potatoe - because the french are (rightfully) proud of their resistance 1941-1944.
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Loz
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 06 Dec 2009, 23:17
Philosophized
Post 01 Feb 2012, 21:41
The Spanish "Blue Division" should also be mentioned here.
Franco sent some 18 000 (45 000 overall with troop rotation:mostly volunteers but there were conscripts too) men to war against the Soviet Union.They suffered a big defeat in a battle against the Soviets at Myasnoi Bor on the Leningrad front,losing some 2,5 thousand troops.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 01 Oct 2010, 00:20
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Post 01 Feb 2012, 21:42
Loz wrote:
[...]and the Albanian SS Div. "Skenderbeg" was worthless.[...]

As were (generally speaking) the Hungarian and above all the Italian Divisions.
The most effective and (from a military point of view) reliable Divisions were the French, Swedish, Norwegian, Dutch and above all the Baltic ones as far as my sources go.

The Cossak division(s) and in general the Cossack collaboration deserves (I think) a thread of it's own.

P.S.: If anyone has some information from reliable sources about numbers and history of the foreign troops under Wehrmacht or SS command, I would be grateful.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 01 Oct 2010, 00:20
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Post 01 Feb 2012, 22:39
Loz wrote:
The Spanish "Blue Division" should also be mentioned here.
Franco sent some 18 000 (45 000 overall with troop rotation:mostly volunteers but there were conscripts too) men to war against the Soviet Union.They suffered a big defeat in a battle against the Soviets at Myasnoi Bor on the Leningrad front,losing some 2,5 thousand troops.

45,000?
Jeez... Thanks a lot for that information. I have to do some research on the 'Blue Division' - but I suppose already now that they were under the command of the Wehrmacht and not the Waffen-SS.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 12 Jun 2011, 15:14
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Post 10 Feb 2012, 19:56
What might seem even more shocking are the number of non-white caucasians whom fought along side the Nazi Germans. Such as Indians http://www.feldgrau.com/azadhind.html , and also even Africans http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=5461&start=120.
JAM
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 09 Mar 2012, 02:37
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
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Post 18 Mar 2012, 05:35
Jason24 wrote:
What might seem even more shocking are the number of non-white caucasians whom fought along side the Nazi Germans. Such as Indians http://www.feldgrau.com/azadhind.html , and also even Africans http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=5461&start=120.


Wait a minute, some of these people were forced to fight alongside the Nazi Germans, manly the Africans who didn't know for what they were fighting for. I really doubt that any of them would agree with the Nazi ideology and give their lives for it. They were probably captured and forced to fight for it unlike the Spanish Blue Division which was formed by a fascist government allied of Hitler. The Africans were treated like sub humans by the Nazis much alike the Jews.

Some neo-nazis show those "volunteers" as an example that the Nazis weren't racists but they seem to forget that at the times of war, when you are running out of men and the necessity demands so, the ideology is forgotten. And other thing is that they were not part of a Nazi organization but rather a supposed neutral one: the army. If they show to me an African or an Indian in the SS squads or Hitler Youth then i will believe that the Nazis weren't racists.
"If I could control Hollywood, I could control the world." -Joseph Stalin
Loz
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 06 Dec 2009, 23:17
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Post 18 Mar 2012, 12:19
Quote:
If they show to me an African or an Indian in the SS squads or Hitler Youth then i will believe that the Nazis weren't racists.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indische_Legion

Of course the Nazis were racists. But Indians were,from what i know, considered Aryans.
JAM
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 09 Mar 2012, 02:37
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Post 18 Mar 2012, 17:55
Loz wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indische_Legion

Of course the Nazis were racists. But Indians were,from what i know, considered Aryans.


I wasn't very clear in my statement, my fault. I wanted to say Africans and Indians mixed with Germans personnel in the same squads, not as separate units.
"If I could control Hollywood, I could control the world." -Joseph Stalin
Loz
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 06 Dec 2009, 23:17
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Post 18 Mar 2012, 18:56
Quote:
If they show to me an African or an Indian in the SS squads or Hitler Youth then i will believe that the Nazis weren't racists.

Sorry, but i don't understand.
So if the Nazis had Africans and Indians "mixed with Germans personnel in the same squads" (which they didn't but let's say they did) ,then you would believe that they weren't racists?
JAM
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 09 Mar 2012, 02:37
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Post 18 Mar 2012, 20:10
Loz wrote:

Sorry, but i don't understand.
So if the Nazis had Africans and Indians "mixed with Germans personnel in the same squads" (which they didn't but let's say they did) ,then you would believe that they weren't racists? :?:


I was not clear in this point. I said "i would believe they were not racists" it was just as a form of expression in the context of some discussions between neo-nazis and anti-nazis. For me they would still be racists anyway since they were anti-semitic and had a race hierarchy but the ones who claim that they weren't racists because of the presence of Africans and Indians among Nazi units would have a slightly point there. They could argument: if the Nazis were racists why they had Africans and Indians mixed with German people? If they were consider inferiors why they were treated in the same manner as the native Germans? (which is absolutely false). Do you understand my point here?

Some neo-nazis are so stuck on this just to say that the Nazis were only bad to the jews, not the other races, which is a false claim either.

This all depends on how you see the anti-semitism. Is it racists or not? For me it's clearly racist but some people don't think so because they mix anti-semitism with anti-zionism.
"If I could control Hollywood, I could control the world." -Joseph Stalin
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 15 Nov 2010, 16:48
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Komsomol
Post 22 Mar 2012, 00:00
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garegin_Nzhdeh

Quote:
During WW2 Nzhdeh suggested support to Nazi Germany if the latter takes a decision to attack Turkey. Operation Gertrud, joint German-Bulgarian project about attacking Turkey in case if Ankara joins the allies, was largely discussed in Berlin.[7] The Armenian military unit, which was supposed to used against Turkey was send to the Eastern front, to Crimean peninsula instead in 1943. Nzhdeh requested detachment's return and terminated his connections with Germany. On September 9 of 1944 Nzhdeh wrote a letter to Stalin suggesting his support in case if the Soviet leadership attacks TurkeyDocumentary about Garegin Nzhdeh, 1h.06.min. A Soviet plan to invade Turkey in order to punish Ankara for collaboration with Nazis and also for returning territories occupied by Turks in 1921, more precisely Kars and Ardahan regions, was highly discussed by the Soviet leadership in 1945-1947[8]. [9] The Soviet military commanders told Nzhdeh that the idea of collaboration is interesting but in order to be able to discuss it in a more detailed way Nzhdeh needed to travel to MoscowA Documentary about Garegin Nzhdeh, 1h07min. He was transferred to Bucharest and later to Moscow, where he was arrested and held in the Lubyanka prison.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 09 May 2012, 08:00
New Comrade (Say hi & be nice to me!)
Post 10 May 2012, 19:20
Did yu ever think that Germany dis not have a brutal Colonial Authority in Africa at the time!
the Wermark and the Nazi were two different organizations!

True Prussian Traditionalists rejected Naziism period!
Loz
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 06 Dec 2009, 23:17
Philosophized
Post 11 May 2012, 07:48
All members of Wehrmach had to make a personal oath to Hitler starting from 1935 or so.
Try again.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 04 Aug 2004, 20:49
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Embalmed
Post 11 May 2012, 12:08
"Prussian traditionalists"?
It was the largest state in Germany, primarily SPD by voting intention, and it lost a lot from the 3rd Reich, granted.
Nazism is a South German and Austrian phenomenon.
Do you mean things like the 3 class voting system when you imply "Prussian traditionalism," or do you mean the overwhelming belief of most of the people there in social democracy?

Also, that list is horrible to look at.
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