Soviet-Empire.com U.S.S.R. and communism historical discussion.
[ Active ]
[ Login ]
Log-in to remove these advertisements.

Mannerheim discussion

POST REPLY
[+-]
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 651
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 19 Jan 2007, 19:29
Komsomol
Post 17 Feb 2007, 13:58
Yeah, you left me no other choice. I did not delete anything. It was just moved. Behave and have fun.



Carius,

that explains a lot. Why don't you use Sieg Heil as your signature while you at it.

Mannerheim
[+-]
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 651
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 19 Jan 2007, 19:29
Komsomol
Post 17 Feb 2007, 14:07
Mannerheim and Hitler, two great soul mates. Now you know why I called you a nazi on the other thread.
Image

Image

Image
Soviet cogitations: 2848
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 21 Nov 2004, 20:31
Party Bureaucrat
Post 17 Feb 2007, 14:20
Your behaviour is most childish and to be frank, idiotic. I can see that you clearly know nothing about Mannerheim, who is a national hero in Finland, and regarded as the greatest Finnish ever.

Quote:
Why don't you use Sieg Heil as your signature while you at it.


Because I do not support national socialism and neither did Mannerheim.

Quote:
that explains a lot.


That merely explains that I respect Mannerheim, and so do all those millions of Finnish who regard him as our national hero and greatest Finnish person ever.

Quote:
Mannerheim and Hitler, two great soul mates.


Ridiculous. Mannerheim did not even like Hitler. You would know this if you would have any idea what you are talking about.

You are only making yourself look like an idiot by posting pictures of Mannerheim and Hitler, whom Mannerheim only met twice, and dishonoring memory of victims of the Holocaust (which Finland had nothing to do with) with that one picture.
Last edited by Carius on 17 Feb 2007, 14:29, edited 1 time in total.
[+-]
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 651
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 19 Jan 2007, 19:29
Komsomol
Post 17 Feb 2007, 14:27
Carius,

Indeed, the old adage on ” tell me who your friends are......


Have a look at his uniform on the second picture you posted.

It does not say much about Finland if Mannerheim is regarded as a national hero. In that case we germans should call Hitler our national hero or the italians Mussolini.

Just because he did not like Hitler (if true) personally does not mean he was not a nazi. Hitler did not like Goering and Himmler did not like Goebbels, so what?
Soviet cogitations: 2848
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 21 Nov 2004, 20:31
Party Bureaucrat
Post 17 Feb 2007, 14:38
Quote:
Have a look at his uniform on the second picture you posted.


For God's sake, and what is this supposed to prove?. Yes, he is wearing German decorations in the second picture, Iron Cross 2nd Class, Iron Cross 1st Class and Knight's Cross. You do not have to be "nazi" to be awarded with any of these. Mannerheim was also awarded with several other decorations and honors, including Russian, Swedish, Danish, British and several Finnish, many of them not even being military.

Quote:
I does not say much about Finland if Mannerheim is regarded as a national hero. In that case we germans should call Hitler our national hero or the italians Mussolini.


You are badly confused, clearly.

Image


Image


All of these memorials were built during the existense of Soviet Union. Soviets made no complains about them nor did they resist their building, neither was Mannerheim trialed as a war criminal by Soviets after the end of World War II. You clearly know very little of what I have been talking about.

Quote:
Just because he did not like Hitler (if true) personally does not mean he was not a nazi.


The thing is that Mannerheim did NOT like Hitler or his policies.
[+-]
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 651
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 19 Jan 2007, 19:29
Komsomol
Post 17 Feb 2007, 14:45
Wiki:
Quote:
Hitler visited Finnish Field Marshal Mannerheim on his 75th birthday on the June 4, 1942. During the visit an engineer of the Finnish broadcasting company YLE, Thor Damen, recorded Hitler and Mannerheim in a private conversation, something which had to be done secretly as Hitler never allowed recordings of him off-guard.[2] Today the recording is the only known recording of Hitler not speaking in an official tone. The recording captures 11 and a half minutes of the two leaders in private conversation.[3] Hitler speaks in a slightly excited, but still intellectually detached manner during this talk (the speech has been compared to that of the working class). The majority of the recording is a monologue by Hitler. In the recording, Hitler admits to underestimating the Soviet Union's ability to conduct war (some English transcripts exist [4] [5]).



Carius,

let me think, Hitler visits Mannerheim on its 75th birthday in 1942. The year in which the whole civilized world was fighting Hitler and his axis allies. After Poland, the battle of britain, operation barbarossa etc etc etc.

It says a lot about you hero Mannerheim.
Soviet cogitations: 2848
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 21 Nov 2004, 20:31
Party Bureaucrat
Post 17 Feb 2007, 14:51
Quote:
Hitler visited Finnish Field Marshal Mannerheim on his 75th birthday on the June 4, 1942


Mannerheim DID NOT WANT HITLER TO VISIT HIM! This is really starting to annoy me, you pretending to know everything about him when you clearly know LITTLE about him!

Hitler only informed Mannerheim that he was going to visit him when he was already in airplane and on his way to Finland. Mannerheim did not want to meet Hitler, either in his headquarters in the city of Mikkeli, or in Helsinki, the capital of Finland, as it would have seemed like an official state visit. The meeting took place at a railway siding near the airfield at town of Immola, in south-eastern Finland, and was arranged in secrecy.

On the top of all, when Hitler was eating with Mannerheim and
Hitler had just finished his meal, Mannerheim lit a large cigar and blew smoke on Hitler's direction, fully knowing that his guest could not abide cigar smoke.

Very close "soul mates" indeed. This whole argument is pointless.
[+-]
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 651
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 19 Jan 2007, 19:29
Komsomol
Post 17 Feb 2007, 14:59
It was not supposed to be a state visit but a little birthday party between two fascist buddies. Mannerheim prepared himself well for the occasion with all those german decorations on his german uniform.

And by the way I was referring to the eagle above the iron cross. Again its the year 1942 that is the key argument here.

Mannerheim blew smoke in Hitlers direction?

Are these finish urban legends?
[+-]
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 651
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 19 Jan 2007, 19:29
Komsomol
Post 17 Feb 2007, 15:02
He even has a german name and of course he knew nothing about the finnish SS.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS-Volunte ... on_Nordost
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Division_Wiking
Last edited by Ossi on 17 Feb 2007, 15:22, edited 1 time in total.
Soviet cogitations: 2848
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 21 Nov 2004, 20:31
Party Bureaucrat
Post 17 Feb 2007, 15:08
Quote:
Mannerheim prepared himself well for the occasion with all those german decorations...


Mannerheim did not need to prepeare himself by carrying Iron Cross 1st and 2nd Class. He carried them in several occasions, before and during the war, and there was nothing special about the visit by Hitler.

Quote:
...on his german uniform.


That "German uniform" is Finnish Sotamarsalkka uniform, sotamarsalkka meaning Field Marshal in English. Don't even bother saying anything if you don't know what you are talking about.

Quote:
Mannerheim blew smoke in Hitlers direction?

Are these finish urban legends?
Image


No, but something that was witnessed by several people.
Last edited by Carius on 17 Feb 2007, 15:15, edited 2 times in total.
[+-]
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 651
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 19 Jan 2007, 19:29
Komsomol
Post 17 Feb 2007, 15:12
Let me get this right. Mannerheim wore a uniform that was decorated with two iron crosses at all times.

My question is therefore. Was he a german or a finnish national hero?

Even his name Mannerheim suggest to me he is german somewhere along the lines and therefore totally"unbiased"
Soviet cogitations: 2848
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 21 Nov 2004, 20:31
Party Bureaucrat
Post 17 Feb 2007, 15:21
Quote:
Let me get this right. Mannerheim wore a uniform that was decorated with two iron crosses at all times.


He did not wear his Iron Crosses all the time. He had several decorations, and did not wear the same always, which is obvious when you have dozens of different decorations.

Quote:
My question is therefore. Was he a german or a finnish national hero?


Quote:
And by the way I was referring to the eagle above the iron cross. Again its the year 1942 that is the key argument here.


He had been awarded with the Iron Cross 2nd Class and Iron Cross 1st Class during World War I by German division that was sent to help Finnish goverment forces during the civil war. The "eagles" are special awards that were added on Iron Crosses of men who had fought and been awarded with either or both Iron Crosses during World War I. The "eagles", along with the Knight's Cross were a gift from Hitler, something that Mannerheim had not asked. Don't even try to make anything of this.


Quote:
He even has a german name


This is just stupid. Even if he would have a German name, which he doesnt have, it would mean nothing. His name is not German. The Mannerheim family is originally Dutch. The family descends from a Dutch businessman and mill owner, Henrik Marhein, who emigrated to Sweden. His son, Augustin Marhein, had the family surname changed to Mannerheim.
[+-]
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 651
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 19 Jan 2007, 19:29
Komsomol
Post 17 Feb 2007, 15:28
That still raises the question as to why he is wearing two iron crosses on his 75th birthday for a vistit by Hitler in 1942. I repeat 1942. Year three of WW2, most of europe was occupied by Hitler's nazis and mass murder going on every where.

And Mannheimer meets the man responsible for all this just three years before the end of the war. Some national hero you got there in finland. Yikes
Soviet cogitations: 2848
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 21 Nov 2004, 20:31
Party Bureaucrat
Post 17 Feb 2007, 15:37
Quote:
That still raises the question as to why he is wearing two iron crosses on his 75th birthday for a vistit by Hitler in 1942. I repeat 1942. Year three of WW2, most of europe was occupied by Hitler's nazis and mass murder going on every where.


Do you really think that the Mannerheim or the Finnish people knew what Heydrich and his buddies were doing? They did not know, one of the reasons being that Finnish did not take part in them. There was no persecution of jews in Finland or anything like that. It's not that Heydrich telephoned Finnish media one day and said "Hey guys, I just had 10000 jews gassed! Print that on your newspaper!"
[+-]
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 651
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 19 Jan 2007, 19:29
Komsomol
Post 17 Feb 2007, 15:51
Again, I like to remind you that plenty of finns served with the SS, especially in eastern europe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS-Volunte ... on_Nordost

Are you saying the finnish secret agents and diplomatic chore did not know about the mass shootings of jews in Estonia, Latvia, Estonia and the Ukraine? Iam sure they were sitting on their ears during the whole war. Actually its not the holocaust I am talking about but the war crimes carried out by the Wehrmacht (hence iron cross;) ) in Poland and the USSR. How many soviet POWs were murdered by the germans? 2 or 3 million?

I am sure not a single finnish person knew something at the time.
Last edited by Ossi on 17 Feb 2007, 16:09, edited 1 time in total.
Soviet cogitations: 2848
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 21 Nov 2004, 20:31
Party Bureaucrat
Post 17 Feb 2007, 16:06
Quote:
Again, I like to remind you that plenty of finns served with the SS,


That "plenty" is 1200, and they were serving in Waffen-SS, not SS.

Quote:
especially in eastern europe.


They only served on the Eastern Front, and the reason for you raising the issue about Finnish Waffen-SS is futile, since (which is stated in the article you linked, if you even bothered to read it) the battalion did not commit any war crimes, neither was the unit accused of such at Nüremberg or any other trial.

Code: Select all
Are you saying the finnish secret agents and diplomatic core did not know about the mass shootings of jews in Estonia, Latvia, Estonia and the Ukraine?


"Secret agents". You have been watching too many movies, and no, they did not know about it.

Being awarded with Iron Cross didnt mean that you had to loot an house and shoot the residents. This is one of the most stupid things I have ever heard.

Quote:
jez, first Pilsudski then Mannerheim


I did not start this or want to start this.
Soviet cogitations: 2848
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 21 Nov 2004, 20:31
Party Bureaucrat
Post 17 Feb 2007, 16:20
Quote:
Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov Lenin.


I respect Lenin for he recognized Finland's independence. He actually lived in Finland for three months in 1917 after the failed Bolshevik rising in July 1917, returning to Russia in October that year.

Image


This is what he looked like while in Finland under the alias Vilén. The house where he lived is a museum, and a nice place to visit. I have visited it once.
Last edited by Carius on 17 Feb 2007, 16:23, edited 1 time in total.
[+-]
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 651
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 19 Jan 2007, 19:29
Komsomol
Post 17 Feb 2007, 16:21
Quote:
That "plenty" is 1200, and they were serving in Waffen-SS, not SS.


Wiki Quote:"Formed in 1941 as SS Freiwilligen-Battalion Nordost, the battalion was made up of 1200 Finnish volunteers who had signed to fight against Soviet Union for two years. While many Finns were already serving with the SS-Division (mot) Wiking, the battalion differed in that it was staffed with Finnish officers and NCOs (Wiking being commanded by Germans)."

Therefore more than 1200.

Quote:
They only served on the Eastern Front, and the reason for you raising the issue about Finnish Waffen-SS is futile, since (which is stated in the article you linked, if you even bothered to read it) the battalion did not commit any war crimes, neither was the unit accused of such at Nüremberg or any other trial.


They were under german command and did knew "nothing" about mass murder in the east. Come on




Quote:
"Secret agents". You have been watching too many movies, and no, they did not know about it.

Being awarded with Iron Cross didnt mean that you had to loot an house and shoot the residents. This is one of the most stupid things I have ever heard.


Did I say that anywhere?

But one thing is for sure, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crimes ... _Wehrmacht



Quote:
I did not start this or want to start this, but this person is not stopping (in this or the other thread).


It takes always two for a dance.
[+-]
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 651
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 19 Jan 2007, 19:29
Komsomol
Post 17 Feb 2007, 16:31
Quote:
I respect Lenin for he recognized Finland's independence.


Yes he was a nice guy. To nice in fact as we can see. There was always a good bolshevik element within finland as poster J. can confirm. Unfortunately the majority followed the wrong people before and during the WW2.
Soviet cogitations: 2848
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 21 Nov 2004, 20:31
Party Bureaucrat
Post 17 Feb 2007, 16:35
Quote:
While many Finns were already serving with the SS-Division (mot) Wiking...


I was refering to battalion itself, and as for those "many Finns already serving with the SS-Division (mot) Wiking", the Finnish goverment or the army had nothing to do with them and has no information about them, since they had left for Germany by themselves. In any case, the number of those "many" did not exceed more than dozens at best.

Quote:
They were under german command and did knew "nothing" about mass murder in the east. Come on


That they were under German command doesnt mean that they knew about the crimes happening on a front of several thousands kilometers. Battalion is only a small part of a division, and not fighting as one together with other elements of the units. One battalion is fighting elsewhere and other elsewhere in the division.

Quote:
It takes always two for a dance.


And I do not want to "dance" with you.
Last edited by Carius on 17 Feb 2007, 16:42, edited 1 time in total.
Alternative Display:
Mobile view
More Forums: The History Forum. The UK Politics Forum.
© 2000- Soviet-Empire.com. Privacy.