Soviet-Empire.com U.S.S.R. and communism historical discussion.
[ Active ]
[ Login ]
Log-in to remove these advertisements.

Exciting animated presentation of the Eastern Front

POST REPLY
Soviet cogitations: 2848
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 21 Nov 2004, 20:31
Party Bureaucrat
Post 21 Mar 2006, 17:22
Quote:
State your source, that SU coastal guard wasn´t aware about minings.


There had been no complains about the mining from the Soviet goverment and their actions show that they were not aware of the mines.
Quote:
Yes 500 unarmed soldiers were allowed to move throught sweden once a week. But no arms were allowed. Only exception was made with wounded and injured soldiers. After the beginning of operation Barbarossa was exception made by allowing 1 division(?) to go throught sweden


This is not correct.

Quote:
but that was made because Sweden woud otherwise faced a war with Germany.


Mere speculation.

Quote:
Estonia was part of SU, so yes SU owned those areal waters.


Estonia had been invaded by Soviet Union short time ago. You might find it hard to belive, but western powers did not accept this.

Quote:
Thousands Estonians served in Red Army


Many of them deserted soon after the start of Barbarossa.
Quote:
This is rewriting history.


And look who is talking.
Quote:
During the war we were aly of germany


No.
Quote:
And Finland and Germany mined together SU areal waters, this hapend before any bombings from SU.


Yes, and you apparently haven't read anything that I have said.
Quote:
Yes they did. And they were ready and participated in start of operation.


They did not, neither of that is true. Finnish did not know when the operation was going to start. President Risto Ryti had made it clear to German goverment that Finland would not go to war unless she is attacked first.
Quote:
which was example for Gestapo


...certainly....Why don't you give me the list of jews that they arrested?

Quote:


Quote:
By laying them on the others areal waters.


Read what I have written.
Quote:
Is siege a attack


Finnish troops had stopped their advance at the 1939 border in Karelian Isthmus.

No Finnish unit attacked Leningrad. There was no artillery or aerial bombartment from the Finnish side.
Last edited by Carius on 21 Mar 2006, 19:16, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 282
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Jul 2005, 17:07
Komsomol
Post 21 Mar 2006, 18:21
Quote:
There had been no complains about the mining from the Soviet goverment and their actions show that they were not aware of the mines.


Yes there were a reaction. They retaliated against Finland for it´s agression against SU.

Quote:
Quote:
Yes 500 unarmed soldiers were allowed to move throught sweden once a week. But no arms were allowed. Only exception was made with wounded and injured soldiers. After the beginning of operation Barbarossa was exception made by allowing 1 division(?) to go throught sweden



This is not correct.


My source is this http://www.lysator.liu.se/nordic/scn/faq736.html
Is this incorrect, where can I get more accurate information or what is your source? And may I ask for source about German bombers refueling in Sweden and then attacking SU in the beginning of operation Barbarossa?
Quote:
April 9th, 1940
Sweden accepts German demands for import and export of products to/from Norway as before - i. e no war material.

April 16th, 1940
Food and oil supplies permitted transport to northern Norway to "save the population from starvation" after the war had emptied the reserves.

Troops, including 40 "red-cross soldiers" denied transit

April 18th, 1940
The 40 "red-cross soldiers" were accepted for transit together with a train loaded with sanitary material, which however turned out to contain 90% food according to the Swedish customs. Further requests for transit of "sanitary material" were rejected.

April to June, 1940
Norway protests over Sweden taking the neutrality too seriously, expecting more of support for Norway.

German civil sailors were given individual transit visa.

Wounded soldiers were transported through Sweden, and 20 further "red-cross soldiers" and a physician were allowed to pass together with five wagons with food stuff.

June 18th, 1940
As the war in Norway was finished, German demands for transit were reinforced. The Swedish parliament did formally modify the neutrality policy according to Germany's demands. (England and France were informed before the parliament debate.)

July 7th, 1940
The Prime Minister admits the transit in a public speech in Ludvika.

July 8th, 1940
Agreement with Germany:
1 daily train (500 man) back and forth Trelleborg-Kornsjö
1 weekly train (500 man) back and forth Trelleborg-Narvik

The agreement with Germany was later increased.

July 15th, July 20th, 1940
Protests from Norway's exile Cabinet, and from Britain's government.

In connection with Germany's attack on Russia on Midsummer's Day 1941 (which Finland was to join a few days later) Sweden had its most serious Cabinet crisis: Germany demanded to transit the fully armed division Engelbrecht from Norway to Finland. The transit permission was granted.

April 1941
As the German plans for an attack on Russia was taken seriously by the Swedish government it was discussed between the Cabinet and the Commander-in-chief how Sweden could react in case of a war between Germany, Finland and Russia.

The Commander-in-chief warned for the danger in provoking German anger and occupation by a continued neutrality policy. Plans for cooperation with Germany and Finland were made.

Single Cabinet members considered cooperation with the Soviet Union, which however was fiercely rejected.

June 23rd, 1941
The Cabinet discuss the requested transit of one armed division (Division Engelbrecht) from northern Norway to northern Finland. Agrarians, Liberals and the Right supported the combined Finnish-German request. Social Democrats rejected.

The king declared he would abdicate if the government couldn't agree with him in a positive answer on Finland's and Germany's request.

June 24rd, 1941
The Social Democratic parliament group decides, with the votes 72-59, to try to convince the other parties for a rejection, but to agree in case they insisted.

The other parties seemed prepared to split the Cabinet.

June 25th, 1941
The Swedish government accept the transit of Division Engelbrecht.

July 11, 1941
Finland's official ambitions on a Big-Finland get known.

New demands on transit of an armed division from Trelleborg to Tornio.

July 1941
The attitude to Finland's and Germany's demands less and less favorable.

The troop transit is proposed to be realized on Swedish water along the Swedish coast with Swedish escort.

Several requests for neutrality-violating exports and transits rejected during the following autumn.



Quote:
Quote:
Estonia was part of SU, so yes SU owned those areal waters.



Estonia had been invaded by Soviet Union short time ago. You might find it hard to belive, but western powers did not accept this.


Estonias parlament decided to apply to became part of SU and it was accepted by SU. Western powers don´t have nothing to say to that.


Quote:
Quote:
Thousands Estonians served in Red Army



Many of them deserted soon after the start of Barbarossa.


Yes people desert from army during war. Your point being what?

Quote:
Quote:
During the war we were aly of germany



No.

Yes we were.

Quote:
Quote:
And Finland and Germany mined together SU areal waters, this hapend before any bombings from SU.



Yes, and you apparently haven't read anything that I have said.


Is my statement false. If it so please provide sources. If not stop insisting otherwise.

Quote:
They did not, neither of that is true. Finnish did not know when the operation was going to start. President Risto Ryti had made it clear to German goverment that Finland would not go to war unless she is attacked first.


Yes they knew. Yes and Finland atrtacked with Germany against SU, before any aggression from SU(by laying mines as discussed). And for the record all the documents conserning Rytis discussion with Germans were destroyed just before end of war, so that they coudn´t be used against him in forthcoming trials.

Quote:
...certainly....Why don't you give me the list of jews that they arrested?


As you know Gestapo was used mainly against political oppononents. As was VALPO used. You probably wan´t to reade you history about Finnish communist and political prisoners and how VALPO was used to catch them as was Gestapo used.

Quote:
Quote:
Is siege a attack



Finnish troops had stopped their advance at the 1939 border in Karelian Isthmus.


Yes and they were sieging Leningrad from north. But you are right no FInnish troops were actually attacking to Leningrad. Finnish Navy(mines etc...) was used to siege it as was Finnish troops allso.

Quote:
No Finnish unit attacked Leningrad. There was no artillery or aerial bombartment from the Finnish side.


As I said before is siege a attack or is it not, hard to say. Actually there is one incident when Finnish navy bombarded Leningrad, but it is fair to say that Finland didn´t participate on bombardment of Leningrad.
Image
Soviet cogitations: 2848
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 21 Nov 2004, 20:31
Party Bureaucrat
Post 21 Mar 2006, 19:05
Quote:
...against Finland....


...which doesn't prove that they knew about the mines.

Quote:
My source is this http://www.lysator.liu.se/nordic/scn/faq736.html
Is this incorrect


Germans had transported well over 2000000 troops trough Sweden during the war. If we follow your claim about 500 troops per week, that makes only 96000.

Quote:
Estonias parlament decided to apply to became part of SU and it was accepted by SU....


Image


(Estonian Parliament ready to vote (by raising hands) for the joining to Soviet Union on 22th July 1940. Picture scanned from "Veljeskansojen Kohtalonvuosilta" ( From the Fateful Years of Our Brother Nations) by Niilo Lappalainen.)

Well, aren't those just friendly Red Army and Red Fleet soldiers who came to say "hello" to the parliament. And what is that picture of Stalin doing in neutral voting?

Quote:
Yes people desert from army during war. Your point being what?


They deserted because of the invasion of their country. They had no reasons to fight for the Soviets.

Quote:
Yes we were.


No. Why don't you show me the official documents signed by German and Finnish goverments that concluded the alliance with Germany and joinal to Axis Powers?

Quote:
And for the record all the documents conserning Rytis discussion with Germans were destroyed just before end of war


Quote:
before any aggression from SU


Shooting down unarmed passanger plane is not agression? And interestingly, some of these "destroyed" documents were recently discovered in United States...

Quote:
Finnish communist


Dramatizing...

Quote:
Yes and they were sieging Leningrad from north.


In order to siege a city you need men, surround the city and sometimes even bombart it.

Quote:
as was Finnish troops allso.


Name these units.

Quote:
Actually there is one incident when Finnish navy bombarded Leningrad


When? Finnish Navy had only two vessels that could have shelled Leningrad, coastal defence ships Ilmarinen and Väinämöinen, and they never did.
Last edited by Carius on 24 Mar 2006, 19:07, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 282
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Jul 2005, 17:07
Komsomol
Post 21 Mar 2006, 20:34
Quote:
Germans had transported well over 2000000 troops trough Sweden during the war. If we follow your claim about 500 troops per week, that makes only 96000.


It is not my claim but the claim that page makes. I used it as a source where is your sources about armed troops moving throught Sweden before operation Barbarossa and for Germans using Swedish airstrips to refuel their bombers to reach SU?

Quote:
(Estonian Parliament ready to vote (by raising hands) for the joining to Soviet Union on 22th July 1940. Picture scanned from "Veljeskansojen Kohtalonvuosilta" ( From the Fateful Years of Our Brother Nations) by Niilo Lappalainen.)

Well, aren't those just friendly Red Army and Red Fleet soldiers who came to say "hello" to the parliament. And what is that picture of Stalin doing in neutral voting?


How this rambling disproves that the Estonia was a part of SU. Which by the way every other historian agrees except you?

Quote:
Shooting down unarmed passanger plane is not agression? And interestingly, some of these "destroyed" documents were recently discovered in United States...


It wasn´t just passenger plane. It was used by spies and diplomats. SU had their reasons to shoot it down. I am defending it it was wrong, but calling it passenger plane is bit misleading. By the way I am bit interest about those documents which were found is there any good book or webpage which tells what those documents carry?

Quote:
Name these units.


I don´t have to. You can see from the animation that Leningrad was sieged from north by troops in Karelian Isthamus, AFAIK there were only Finnish troops there no German troops. I think this is proof enought.

Quote:
When? Finnish Navy had only two vessels that could have shelled Leningrad, coastal defence ships Ilmarinen and Väinämöinen, and they never did.


I have this mental image that once a finnish ship opened canon fire to the Leningrad, mut I might be mistaken. I don´t have time to search it more so I will agree with you(as I did before) that Finnish did not bomb Leningrad.
Image
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 2272
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 12 May 2005, 13:28
Party Bureaucrat
Post 21 Mar 2006, 21:03
Well I'll just hop in to this discussion.

Firstly, do you really think Estonians had any choise on joining the Soviet Empire? Soviet Union had many forced military bases on Estonian soil, and if Estonia wouldn't agree they would just annex the country by military ways. Estonias parlament voted on it, but not clean

And about finnish forces sieging Leningrad, if finnish forces would had been in siege, the city would fallen to german army. As Carius has said in many of his posts, finnish forces could had cut off the supply way to Leningrad, lake Ladoga, after which the soviet troops couldn't had lasted very long time.
-With solidarity, FC

Image
Soviet cogitations: 2848
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 21 Nov 2004, 20:31
Party Bureaucrat
Post 21 Mar 2006, 21:06
Quote:
where is your source


"Barbarossa-suunnitelma ja Suomi" (Barbarossa-plan and Finland) by Arvi Korhonen.

Quote:
How this rambling disproves


Rambling...

The voting was not clean. If it would have been there shouldn't have been Soviet soldiers present during the voting. (especially not Stalin pictures)

Quote:
It wasn´t just passenger plane. It was used by spies and diplomats.


But of course it was.....

Quote:
By the way I am bit interest about those documents which were found is there any good book or webpage which tells what those documents carry?


This was rather big new, but it seems that you haven't heard of it.

TV News Dosent Hannu Rautkallio recently found President Risto Ryti's diaries from an archive in USA. Ryti's diaries were transferred safe to USA by his lawyer.

The diaries are very interesting. They contain for example the so far most accurate description on the Hitler's visit in Finland on 4.6.1942.

More information will certainly come soon.

Quote:
You can see from the animation that Leningrad was sieged from north by troops in Karelian Isthamus


No. It shows troops in Karelian Isthmus, it does not show them attacking or sieging the city. Even the flash itself says that Finnish stopped on Karelian Isthmus. Finnish troops halted their advance on Karelian Isthmus after reaching the 1939 border, 32 kilometers from Leningrad.

Quote:
I have this mental image that once a finnish ship opened canon fire to the Leningrad


Only two Finnish warships could have shelled Leningrad, coastal defence ships Ilmarinen and Väinämöinen, and they never did.
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 793
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 24 Nov 2005, 08:18
Komsomol
Post 22 Mar 2006, 07:17
I don't have much time to reply,but all I'm gonna say now is, I recomend you read V. Pikul's "Ocean Patrol" (books 1 and 2).
It may not answer all points brought up here, but still depicts state of Finland during German occupation.
Image

"Art belongs to the people!" - V.I. Lenin
Soviet cogitations: 2848
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 21 Nov 2004, 20:31
Party Bureaucrat
Post 22 Mar 2006, 07:23
Quote:
state of Finland during German occupation.


There has never been German occupation.
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 282
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Jul 2005, 17:07
Komsomol
Post 23 Mar 2006, 14:47
Quote:
Quote:
where is your source



"Barbarossa-suunnitelma ja Suomi" (Barbarossa-plan and Finland) by Arvi Korhonen.


Your quoting is bit confusing, what claim is this source for. Could you please be more specific about claim that this proofs? By the way did you know that book is used for an example about selective history writing http://www.uta.fi/kirjasto/oppimiskeskus/verkkoaineisto/yht/upton.pdf

Quote:
The voting was not clean. If it would have been there shouldn't have been Soviet soldiers present during the voting.


Look the issue isn´t about "clean" voting or was Estonia "freely" chose to be part of SU. The issue was that Estonia WAS a part of SU. I don´t think that any historia disagrees about that issue. So Finland did mine SU areal waters.

Quote:
Quote:
It wasn´t just passenger plane. It was used by spies and diplomats.



But of course it was.....


Yes it was. It has been claimed that SU got over 100kg of diplomatic post from Kaleva. And when you put this on historical context you get the picture. This is written in Finnish but I think you understand

http://www.virtualpilots.fi/feature/artikkelit/tapauskaleva/

No, this is not claim that I approve this. I think it is fair to say that Kaleva wasn´t at that flight "just a passenger plane".

Quote:
No. It shows troops in Karelian Isthmus, it does not show them attacking or sieging the city. Even the flash itself says that Finnish stopped on Karelian Isthmus. Finnish troops halted their advance on Karelian Isthmus after reaching the 1939 border, 32 kilometers from Leningrad.


Stop putting words on my mouth. I claimed that Finnish troops were sieging Leningrad from north. I wasn´t talking about them trying to capture that city from there. But here is few picture which shows how Finnish troops are assembled there.

http://www.sodatkuvina.cjb.net/images/Jatkosota/Kartat/cwdata/41JoukkojenRyhmitykset.html
http://www.sodatkuvina.cjb.net/images/Jatkosota/Kartat/cwdata/41LaatokanKarjala.html
http://www.sodatkuvina.cjb.net/images/Jatkosota/Kartat/cwdata/41KannaksenL%E4nsiosa.html
[/url]
Image
Soviet cogitations: 2848
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 21 Nov 2004, 20:31
Party Bureaucrat
Post 23 Mar 2006, 15:21
Quote:
The issue was that Estonia WAS a part of SU.


Quote:
I don´t think that any historia disagrees about that issue.


And I don't think I have claimed anything else.

What is relevant is that Estonia was part not part of Soviet Union democratically or legally.

Quote:
Yes it was.


That the plane was carrying diplomats is not a reason to shoot it down. Diplomats are protected by There was also a civilian onboard. The talk about spies is speculation and not certain.

Quote:
Stop putting words on my mout


No one has put words in your mouth.

Quote:
I claimed that Finnish troops were sieging Leningrad from north


Finnish troops were not "sieging Leningrad from north."

None of those pictures shows Finnish troops sieging Leningrad. One of the pictures shows position of Finnish and German troops by the time Finland joined the war and by end of the offensive, the other one shows Finnish attacks in Karelian Isthmus. The last one shows Finnish attacks on East Karelia.
Last edited by Carius on 18 Oct 2006, 14:18, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 282
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Jul 2005, 17:07
Komsomol
Post 23 Mar 2006, 15:50
Quote:
Finnish troops were not "sieging Leningrad from north."


Your denial is unbelievale. I showed you troops positions and everything and yet you claim that Finland didn´t siege Leningrad. So tell me was Leningrad even sieged? If so who was sieging it from north?

Quote:
None of those pictures shows Finnish troops sieging Leningrad.


Actually that shows exactly that. Only thing is missing from the maps is exact location of Leningrad, which is the reason why I gave the first link so you can see the position of Leningrad and adjust it to the more accurate and advenced maps.
Image
Soviet cogitations: 2848
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 21 Nov 2004, 20:31
Party Bureaucrat
Post 23 Mar 2006, 15:54
Quote:
you claim that Finland didn´t siege Leningrad.


I do.

Quote:
So tell me was Leningrad even sieged?


Yes, it was.

Quote:
I showed you troops positions and everything


Quote:
Actually that shows exactly that.


You did not and none of those maps show Finnish troops sieging the city. One of the pictures shows position of Finnish troops by the time Finland joined the war, the other one shows Finnish attacks in Karelian Isthmus. The last one shows Finnish attacks on East Karelia.
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 282
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Jul 2005, 17:07
Komsomol
Post 23 Mar 2006, 15:57
Quote:
Quote:
So tell me was Leningrad even sieged?



Yes, it was.


So tell me which troops according to you were sieging Leningrad from North ?
Image
Soviet cogitations: 2848
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 21 Nov 2004, 20:31
Party Bureaucrat
Post 23 Mar 2006, 16:01
Finnish troops had reached River Svir in East Karelia by September 7 1941, 160 kilometers north of Leningrad and did not advance further.
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 282
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Jul 2005, 17:07
Komsomol
Post 23 Mar 2006, 16:06
Quote:
Finnish troops had reached River Svir in East Karelia by September 7 1941, 160 kilometers north of Leningrad and did not advance further.


Yes that is true. Northern siege line of Leningrad was at river Svir.
Image
Soviet cogitations: 2848
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 21 Nov 2004, 20:31
Party Bureaucrat
Post 23 Mar 2006, 16:14
From 160km away? In order to siege a city you need to be closer to city, have troops opposed against it and possibly shell and bomb the city.

After halting the offensive, Finnish troops spent the war in dug outs, staying on defensive....

Image


.....not this way.

Image


German heavy artillery gun is prepearing to shell Leningrad.

Minä en hyökkää enää. (I will not attack anymore)

Mannerheim after being asked by General Waldemar Erfurth to attack Leningrad.

"Suomi toisessa maailmansodassa." (Finland in World War Two) by Charles Leonard Lundin.
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 282
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Jul 2005, 17:07
Komsomol
Post 23 Mar 2006, 16:37
Quote:
From 160km away? In order to siege a city you need to be closer to city, have troops opposed against it and possibly shell and bomb the city.


So you re deniang the fact that Leningrad was sieged, fine.

siege Pronunciation (sj)
n.
1. The surrounding and blockading of a city, town, or fortress by an army attempting to capture it.

Even when facts speak against you. Finnish troops were participating siege of Leningrad from north. Their allies attacked city from another directions.

Quote:
After halting the offensive


Yes halting or being stopped. Depends on military terms or which side are you.

Quote:
Finnish troops spent the war in dug outs, staying on defensive


Yes when army is stopped or halting their offensive standard procedure is begin fortifications. First dugging yourself a "hole" and after that dugging trenches etc... And yes Finnish officers thought that attacking Leningrad is bit risky and casulties would enormeus so they didn´t activily attacked against it. They just started sieging it and let Germans do the dirty work.
Image
Soviet cogitations: 2848
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 21 Nov 2004, 20:31
Party Bureaucrat
Post 23 Mar 2006, 16:46
Quote:
The surrounding and blockading of a city, town, or fortress by an army attempting to capture it.


A siege is a prolonged military blockade and attack of a city or fortress with the intent of conquering by force or attrition. Sieges included artillery and aerial bombardment by World War Two standarts.

So, where were the Finnish artillery guns and planes? None attacked Leningrad.

Leningrad was never fully surrounded or blockaded, and Finnish did not change this. A territory east of Lake Ladoga was under Soviet control, which enabled the use of Lake Ladoga as supply road. This "road" was attacked by Germans, not Finnish.

Quote:
Finnish troops were participating siege of Leningrad from north.


They were not.

Quote:
Even when facts speak against you.


They are not speaking agains't me.

Quote:
Their allies attacked city from another directions.


There was no alliance with Germany, only co-belligerent. You also claim then that Soviet Union was ally of Germany.

Quote:
stopped.


Finnish offensive was not stopped. By the time Finnish reached the 1939 border Karelian Isthmus there was one beaten Soviet army between Finnish and Leningrad. Finnish had some 400000 troops and the distance distance was little more than 30 kilometers. If they would have wanted to take Leningrad with Germans they would have done it.
Soviet cogitations: 638
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 May 2006, 07:44
Ideology: Left Communism
Resident Soviet
Post 16 May 2006, 15:32
Carius wrote:
Finland was not ally of Germany. Finland was co-belligent to Germany after the Soviet bombings

Oh. Well, I'll just let the documents speak. And may the people hear.

On the German-Finnish relations and whether there was a strike pre-planned from Finland. The following are extracts from Halder's wartime diary. For a good kick-off start on January 1941, when no Soviet aviation is anywhere near Finland yet.
Halder, KTB, 2nd tome, 30 Jan 1941 wrote:
13:00 - breakfast with General Heinriks (commanderf of the finnish HQ) ...
16:30 - Talks with General Heinriks:
To mobilize forces according to wartime standards we need 9 days. A secret mobilization. However, it cannot be made fully secret. The prime attack vectors go around both sides of Lake Ladoga. Five divisions on the South side of Ladoga, three divisions on the North side.

And then in March we see:
Halder, KTB, 2nd tome, 30 Mar 1941 wrote:
No illusions about the allies! The finns will fight bravely...

And... on the 19th of June, 1941, General-major Talvela wrote in his diary:
Talvela wrote:
The preliminary attack order has been received"


And now that we figured Finland was "co-belligerent" and in alliance with Nazi Germany well before Barbarossa, we'll see...

On the 30th of July on 1941 English aviation bombed the city of Petsamo. Was this also an act of "agression" against Finland? Wait, but Finland didn't attack England... it just allied with the Nazis! This super-cruel act should be known, right?! Or... but wait! England warred agains the Petain France! Petain France was not an agressive state! It was assaulted!! And also, Nazi Germany did NOT attack England and France, they declared war on Germany, poor lil' Germany was just defending, right?!

Finland wasn't bombed for "nothing" and it allied with the Nazis well before that. And everyone knows that. Documents above prove.
Soviet cogitations: 2848
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 21 Nov 2004, 20:31
Party Bureaucrat
Post 16 May 2006, 16:58
Quote:
Well, I'll just let the documents speak


Yes please. Show me the documents that had been signed by Finnish and German goverments that concluded alliance with Germany or Finland's joining to Axis Powers.

Quote:
To mobilize


Notice the word.

Quote:
No illusions about the allies! The finns will fight bravely...


Again notice the word.

Quote:
in alliance


There was no alliance with Germany, and British bombed German shipping on Petsamo harbour.

Quote:
Nazis!


They are called Germans.

Quote:
This super-cruel act should be known, right?


Not really. Damage caused by the raid was minimal, especially because the Germans suffered. And Britain, unlike Soviet Union, declared war on Finland.

Quote:
everyone knows that


Do they? This doesn't seem to be case, otherwise thousands history books need to be rewritten.

Quote:
Documents above prove.


They prove nothing and those are not "documents".

Once again, I suggest that you drop the hostile and agressive aditude. Be polite.
Alternative Display:
Mobile view
More Forums: The History Forum. The UK Politics Forum.
© 2000- Soviet-Empire.com. Privacy.