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Katyn massacre

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Soviet cogitations: 782
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 25 Nov 2004, 17:44
Unperson
Post 01 Feb 2005, 11:06
http://www.boston.com/news/world/asia/a ... _massacre/


December 2, 2004

WARSAW -- Polish war crimes prosecutors have opened an investigation into the 1940 massacre in the Katyn forest of more than 21,000 Polish officers and intellectuals by the Soviet secret police, authorities said yesterday. Leon Kieres, the head of Poland's National Remembrance Institute, told a news conference that the investigation by 16 of his specialized prosecutors will attempt to add names to the fragmentary records of the Soviet officials and secret police agents who issued, passed on, or carried out the orders to kill the Polish prisoners. Until the fall of communism in 1989, any mention of the massacre was forbidden in Poland. The following year, the Soviet government accepted responsibility for the World War II murders. Soviet agents killed 21,768 Polish military officers, intellectuals, and priests in the forests of Katyn and other places.



http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=s ... acre_probe

By MONIKA SCISLOWSKA, Associated Press Writer

WARSAW, Poland - Polish war crimes prosecutors have opened an investigation into the 1940 massacre in the Katyn forest of more than 21,000 Polish officers and intellectuals by the Soviet secret police, authorities said Wednesday.



Leon Kieres, the head of Poland's National Remembrance Institute, told a news conference that the investigation by 16 of his specialized prosecutors will attempt to add names to the fragmentary records of the Soviet officials and secret police agents who issued, passed on, or carried out the orders to kill the Polish prisoners.


Deputy Justice Minister Andrzej Kalwas said the investigation was an act of "delayed redress and justice toward the innocent victims and to their living relatives."


Until the fall of communism in 1989, any mention of the massacre was forbidden in Poland. The following year, the Soviet government accepted responsibility for the World War II murders.


Soviet agents killed 21,768 Polish military officers, intellectuals and priests in the forests of Katyn and other places. They had taken them prisoner when the Soviet Union invaded Poland in 1939.


The massacre is still an irritant to relations between Poland and Russia, and topped the agenda when Polish President Aleksander Kwasniewski visited Russian President Vladimir Putin (news - web sites) in September.


After that meeting, Kwasniewski said Russian authorities promised to hand over 96 volumes of documents related to the massacre, which would help the Polish Remembrance Institute conduct its own investigation into the killings.


Though a recent Russian investigation into the massacre failed to produce any new names of suspects, Kieres said he was still hopeful of success because the Polish probe would include interviews with thousands of relatives of the victims, as well as a reexamination of the files.
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Soviet cogitations: 782
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 25 Nov 2004, 17:44
Unperson
Post 01 Feb 2005, 11:17
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Soviet cogitations: 782
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 25 Nov 2004, 17:44
Unperson
Post 01 Feb 2005, 11:20
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Memorandum on NKVD letterhead from L. Beria to "Comrade Stalin" proposing to execute captured Polish officers, soldiers, and other prisoners by shooting. Stalin's handwritten signature appears on top, followed by signatures of Politburo members K. Voroshilov, V. Molotov, and A. Mikoyan. Signatures in left margin are M. Kalinin and L. Kaganovich, both favoring execution.
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Soviet cogitations: 782
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 25 Nov 2004, 17:44
Unperson
Post 01 Feb 2005, 11:22
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Soviet cogitations: 782
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 25 Nov 2004, 17:44
Unperson
Post 01 Feb 2005, 11:37
"What is wrong with you people?! Why are you posting such topics as "Where have all the girls gone?" This forum is about our nation's history!! What do the "Really good girls" have to do with it? Our leader, Stalin, did us a favour by killing the Polish soldiers who could have overthrown the government, and all you can talk about is girls? Scheisse! You make me sick!!!"


Do you now understand why i start threads like this?
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Soviet cogitations: 1791
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 11 Dec 2004, 11:58
Party Member
Post 01 Feb 2005, 11:50
Perhaps putting it all into one post would be more efficent, instead of spamming, double posting.

Quote:
"What is wrong with you people?! Why are you posting such topics as "Where have all the girls gone?" This forum is about our nation's history!! What do the "Really good girls" have to do with it? Our leader, Stalin, did us a favour by killing the Polish soldiers who could have overthrown the government, and all you can talk about is girls? Scheisse! You make me sick!!!"


Do you now understand why i start threads like this?


That makes no sense to me at all.

[Note: I encourage the Moderators to move this thread to the 'Propaganda' Section
!]
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Soviet cogitations: 782
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 25 Nov 2004, 17:44
Unperson
Post 01 Feb 2005, 11:55
Nikita Khrushchev wrote:
Perhaps putting it all into one post would be more efficent, instead of spamming, double posting.

Quote:
"What is wrong with you people?! Why are you posting such topics as "Where have all the girls gone?" This forum is about our nation's history!! What do the "Really good girls" have to do with it? Our leader, Stalin, did us a favour by killing the Polish soldiers who could have overthrown the government, and all you can talk about is girls? Scheisse! You make me sick!!!"


Do you now understand why i start threads like this?


That makes no sense to me at all.

[Note: I encourage the Moderators to move this thread to the 'Propaganda' Section
!]


http://www.soviet-empire.com/ussr/viewtopic.php?t=29000

And Valdart dosen't read these forums, so there isn't actually nobody moderate.
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Soviet cogitations: 1791
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 11 Dec 2004, 11:58
Party Member
Post 01 Feb 2005, 12:00
How unfortunate.
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Soviet cogitations: 782
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 25 Nov 2004, 17:44
Unperson
Post 01 Feb 2005, 12:02
Nikita Khrushchev wrote:
How unfortunate.


Actually, quite good. As you can see when you read the oldest posts, he wasn't doing very good job. Better to have none than one bad.
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Soviet cogitations: 1791
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 11 Dec 2004, 11:58
Party Member
Post 01 Feb 2005, 12:04
He should be replaced by someone who is capable of keep an eye on the forum. I don't think I have seen him post recently either.
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Soviet cogitations: 866
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 05 Mar 2003, 16:07
Komsomol
Post 01 Feb 2005, 13:06
Kormy wrote:
Do you now understand why i start threads like this?


No, not after everyone saw this bullshit disproved in the "Soviet Empire and Poland" thread...
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Soviet cogitations: 782
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 25 Nov 2004, 17:44
Unperson
Post 01 Feb 2005, 13:11
Papergut wrote:
Kormy wrote:
Do you now understand why i start threads like this?


No, not after everyone saw this bullshit disproved in the "Soviet Empire and Poland" thread...



Disproved? So the Polish officals are making this all up? The Graves that contained bones, items of the victims? Do you feel same feelings about the holocaust, it did not happen because some nazi- disproved it with "un-biased" sources?

The soviet officals told the grave-sights for the 2 other massgraves. Did you even bother reading those sites that i posted urls for?


EDIT : Yeah, take somebody seriously who believes that Soviets fighted against UFOS in the 80s, or stops posting on the threads when he have been proved wrong
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Soviet cogitations: 700
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 01 Jan 2005, 16:45
Komsomol
Post 01 Feb 2005, 14:28
Dude kormy no one even cares anymore.You know the more propaganda shit you post the more i believe in communism and in the soviet union.
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When I was young
It seemed that life was so wonderful
A miracle
Oh it was beautiful
magical.
All the birds in the trees
They could sing so happily
So joyfully
Oh playfully watching me
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 866
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 05 Mar 2003, 16:07
Komsomol
Post 01 Feb 2005, 14:48
Did I reject the sole fact of massacre? No. I said that it was conducted by Nazis as it was. I also included a short list of items on bodies indicating that the "massacre" happened much later than Nazis reported in their attempt to blackmail the Soviets:

Medical expertise wrote:
On body #4.
Postcard, special, #0112 from Tarnopol' and a stamp, "Tarnopol' 12.11.40 yr." Handwritten text and address faded out.

On body #101.
Receipt #10293 of 19.12.39 yr., given by Kozel'sk camp, about taking golden watches from Levandovskiy Eduard Adamovich. On the other side of receipt: record of 14th of March, 1941, telling that the golden watch was sold to "Yuvelirtorg" [that's jewelry shop].

On body #53.
Unsent postcard in Polish language with address, "Warsaw, Bagatelya, 15, flat 47, to Irina Kuchinska. Dated 20th of June, 1941.


But reading is for morons, right?

Next, unlike deniers of Holocaust, I used the same sources as you did to remove the accusations, so they are hardly biased.

And I'm not believing "Soviets fighting UFOs" stories, mind you. You must be messing me with interrupt_00h here...
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Soviet cogitations: 1893
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 30 May 2003, 23:58
Ancient Communist
Post 02 Feb 2005, 03:21
"Why are you posting such topics as "Where have all the girls gone?"

Comrade... have you noticed that, despite the cute title, all of those "girls" are Stalin era sniper veterans? Or do you have something against the female fighters of the Great Patriotic War?
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Soviet cogitations: 4381
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Oct 2004, 22:04
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Resident Soviet
Post 02 Feb 2005, 05:45
He just likes teasing us. Fortunately there are people like Papergut to prove him wrong, or at least give me a version of truth I can believe. Thanks Papergut
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 1019
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 16 Dec 2004, 21:30
Party Member
Post 02 Feb 2005, 08:02
soviet78 wrote:
or at least give me a version of truth I can believe.

That is very dangerous. History is not about different versions, there is facts and fiction.
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Soviet cogitations: 1791
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 11 Dec 2004, 11:58
Party Member
Post 02 Feb 2005, 08:07
Quote:
there is facts and fiction.


I concur, it's unfortunate that you didn't realise that Earlier.
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User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 4381
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Oct 2004, 22:04
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Resident Soviet
Post 02 Feb 2005, 08:47
I am not going to be one of those people that's going to take everything I hear or read about and take it literally. I've been lied to enough. I know from personal experience that no source can be trusted entirely.

History is entirely about different versions. I can only very rarely take something written by man, who has his own ambitions and desires at play, to be the truth. For the majority of issues, I'm going to have to look at pieces of fact, to try to find out the truth. But always I will try to look objectively.
Soviet cogitations: 5
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 29 Dec 2005, 09:21
New Comrade (Say hi & be nice to me!)
Post 29 Dec 2005, 15:57
I am curious to know if any of the Russian members have read Yuri Mukhin's books about the Katyn massacre Katynskij Detektiv and Antirossijskaja Podlost, and if so, what your impressions are.

Regards,
Sven-Erik
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