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Soviet Empire and Poland

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Soviet cogitations: 2848
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 21 Nov 2004, 20:31
Party Bureaucrat
Post 24 Jan 2005, 21:05
Quote:
......but as a country with an army Poland was insignifican.


Know the facts before talking something like that.

The strenght of Polish Army was 1000000 men. Is that small in your opinion?
Soviet cogitations: 283
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 01 Sep 2004, 01:53
Komsomol
Post 24 Jan 2005, 23:59
Birkin wrote:
Quote:
......but as a country with an army Poland was insignifican.


Know the facts before talking something like that.

The strenght of Polish Army was 1000000 men. Is that small in your opinion?


Five hundred thousand infantry using sabers and five hundred thousand cavalry.

Germans ate Poles alive because while Germans came in with tanks, stupid Poles attacked Panzer tanks with cavalry.

Boom. Dead.

No more Polish army.
When we hang the Capitalists they will sell us the rope we use.
-Joseph Stalin
Soviet cogitations: 1791
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 11 Dec 2004, 11:58
Party Member
Post 25 Jan 2005, 00:30
Polish army was totally outclassed in every possible, there airforce was destroyed before they even knew there was a war -- even so they still had bi-planes. They were using ancient tanks which were to immobile to be of any use. There infantry were so and had a lack of dicipline. They were incircled and totally defeated in no time.

Then the Germans continued to destroy Warsaw, where the civillians put up a better fight than the actual army.
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Soviet cogitations: 11
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 19 Jan 2005, 23:08
New Comrade (Say hi & be nice to me!)
Post 25 Jan 2005, 23:52
Bullets in pepole in Katyn was Russian made, and German made. Why? Cause they had some guns from Germans.

And yes, i think that it is better that Poland recived land from West. Cause land on East taken by USSR was nothing more but a shit. West lands were industrialized. And on East were more ukrainian pepole than polish. So i think that Curzon line Was Good choice.
Soviet cogitations: 700
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 01 Jan 2005, 16:45
Komsomol
Post 26 Jan 2005, 00:36
Sometimes i wish my country would joined the soviets or the nazis earlier.So we our selfs could destroy poland.I mean did u see their army?Bunch of medieval weapons.You know that was not even brave what poles did.They were charging tanks on horseback.... ON HORSEBACK FOR GOD SAKES.Most of them had those err forgot what their called those poles they used in medieval times.Plain stupidity if you ask me.
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When I was young
It seemed that life was so wonderful
A miracle
Oh it was beautiful
magical.
All the birds in the trees
They could sing so happily
So joyfully
Oh playfully watching me
[+-]
Soviet cogitations: 782
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 25 Nov 2004, 17:44
Unperson
Post 26 Jan 2005, 00:42
frank_pivo_4 wrote:
Sometimes i wish my country would joined the soviets or the nazis earlier.So we our selfs could destroy poland.I mean did u see their army?Bunch of medieval weapons.You know that was not even brave what poles did.They were charging tanks on horseback.... ON HORSEBACK FOR GOD SAKES.Most of them had those err forgot what their called those poles they used in medieval times.Plain stupidity if you ask me.


That is a myth.

The only "horseback" rush was against infantry unit, which was pretty succefull, but when the Ze germans got tank support, they was beaten back.

Medieval weapons? Pff.
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Soviet cogitations: 614
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 28 Nov 2004, 01:27
Komsomol
Post 26 Jan 2005, 16:09
Quote from a polish text book for 6 year olds:

"Now we have tanks and rockets, bombs and missiles, we can defeat anyone!"

Michail
Image


"Freedom in capitalist society always remains about the same as it was in ancient Greek republics: Freedom for slave owners." - V. I. Lenin

Formerly MichaelZ
Soviet cogitations: 101
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 29 Jan 2005, 01:35
Pioneer
Post 12 Feb 2005, 03:22
Well, if talking about medieval weapons and cavalry units - almost same happened to USSR.
When Germans attacked USSR in 1941, our aircraft (largest aircraft in the world) was destroyed in a matter of few weeks, mostly on the ground. Our tanks fell apart under the pressure of the german onslaught, tons of infantry divisions were encircled and killed. It is time that saved us. Time was not on Hitler's side.

And yeah, regarding Polish army - it was almost as large as the German army when the war began.
Soviet cogitations: 6
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 02 Sep 2004, 12:08
New Comrade (Say hi & be nice to me!)
Post 25 Mar 2005, 11:00
A very interesting topic. Poland has such a sad history, being stabbed in the back by austrians after saving europes bacon from the turks. At the height of its power it was considered a Great power perhaps in an even stronger position than 'muscovy' state itself. But being surrounded by enemies on all sides and an idiot on the throne led to the gradual deterioration of army and country.

2nd world war was complete stupidity, it could have been avoided if the polish army was mordernized in the 1920's right when the poles asked the west for help. Or perhaps if the czechoslovakians were included in talks that led to their country being raped by fascists.
- 0000101 -
Soviet cogitations: 2848
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 21 Nov 2004, 20:31
Party Bureaucrat
Post 25 Mar 2005, 14:58
Quote:
Five hundred thousand infantry using sabers and five hundred thousand cavalry.

Germans ate Poles alive because while Germans came in with tanks, stupid Poles attacked Panzer tanks with cavalry.

Boom. Dead.

No more Polish army.


Nice proganda. Polish cavalry didnt fight enemy AFVs when mounted. Infantry didnt use sabres. Polish cavalry used sabres, and only when charging agaisnt enemy INFANTRY. When not mounted, Polish cavalry used rifles and other small arms agaisnt infantry. Agaisnt AFVs Polish cavalry had AT-rifles and guns.

Quote:
Polish army was totally outclassed in every possible, there airforce was destroyed before they even knew there was a war -- even so they still had bi-planes. They were using ancient tanks which were to immobile to be of any use. There infantry were so and had a lack of dicipline. They were incircled and totally defeated in no time.


Nice propaganda, again.


Ancient tanks? Sure...


Poles had about 130 7TP tanks which were good. 7TP was better then Panzer I or II. Even Panzer III could find 7TP as worthy foe. By the way, 7TP was the first tank to have diesel engine, the engine that the Soviets were so proud of...

Poles also had other AFVs.

The only ancient tanks that Poles had were Renault FT-17 light tanks, which were bought from French a long time. However, Poles knew well that they were next to absolete.

Quote:
there infantry were so and had a lack of dicipline. They were incircled and totally defeated in no time....


Lack of dicipline?

Sure..

It amazes me how commies belive in nazi-propaganda...


Soviet cogitations: 844
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 22 Jun 2004, 21:01
Komsomol
Post 26 Mar 2005, 04:17
Just had to delete some broad sweeping generalizations and one liners. This topic is about Russian-Polish rivalry, not whether or not you like Poles. Keep it that way.

Thanks.
Soviet cogitations: 436
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 18 Nov 2006, 21:54
Unperson
Post 06 Dec 2006, 04:13
Quote:
Poland and Russia has a long history of rivalry, but few know that Poland once saved Europe form red flood in early 1920's. Poland stood hard against Red Army and won.


This is a distortion of the conflict. The Poles attacked and expanded into parts of Ukraine and Belorussia and the Russian Red Army reacted in defense of its Soviet Ukrainian ally. The first skirmishes with the Poles took place early in 1919. But despite the presence of a large Polish army, Red forces were not committed to the west throughout 1919. Moscow preferred giving up territory to the Poles rather than risk open war. When the civil war in Russia seemed over in the spring of 1920, the Polish army suddenly advanced across the plains of the western Ukraine. It marched 150 miles in two weeks, took Kiev on 6 May, and threw bridgeheads across the Dnepr. The Poles in effect unleashed aggression against the Soviet Ukrainian republic thereby provoking the Soviet Russians to intervene. Previously, the Poles had seized Minsk in August 1919 resulting in the destruction in the Lithuanian-Belorussian Soviet Republic, Dvinsk in January 1920, and Mozyr in March 1920.

Quote:
The important fact is that 19 years later Russia atacked Poland in coalition with Hitler,16 days after his agression on 1st October.


Spare us of this nonesense. The non-aggression pact with Hitler did not signify any sort of alliance. Just like the German-Polish non-aggresson pact signed in 1934 was not an alliance. Just like the Soviet-West German non-aggression pact signed in the "dentente" period was not an alliance. And just like the earlier 1926 Treaty of Berlin between USSR and Weimar Germany was not an alliance.

"The nonaggression pact was not an alliance. The USSR did not sign with Hitler the type of mutual assistance pact she had offered to Britain and France. She signed a pact practically similar in form to the various nonaggression pacts she had been signing for fifteen years. It was not even mutually exclusive. It did not preclude the signing of similar pacts with Britain and France. Without violating the pact, the Soviet Union was free to oppose, even by armed force, a German attack on Turkey or Yugoslavia. She had agreed not to take part part in aggression against Germany, but had promised nothing about resisting an aggression the Nazis might start. We shall see that the Soviet Union actually did resist such aggressions without violating the pact...The USSR never became the "arsenal" for Germany in anything like the sense in which America, while still technically neutral, became the arsenal for Great Britain. America has even been the arsenal for Japan in her war against China to a far greater extent than the USSR ever was for Germany that could be classed as a war commodity was oil; the highest foreign guesses assume that the Soviets may possibly have sent as much as a million tons. America's supply of oil to Japan even under the government licensing system was more than three times as much."

Anna Louise Strong, "The Soviets Expected it"

Quote:
Blood of murdered polish officers in Katyń (it was a homicide) is on communist hands....


From all sectors of the Western and South-Western fronts come reports of unheard-of atrocities committed by Polish WhiteGuard forces upon captured and wounded Red Army men. They are tortured, beaten, shot and hanged. Needless to say, the gentry-hangmen slaughter all Communists who fall into their hands. But that same fate befalls non-Party Red Army men as well. Moreover, Red Army men who are wounded or sick do not survive capture by the dishonourable aggressors.

The Polish gentry know that an honourable Red Army man is their mortal and irreconcilable foe. That is why they slaughter our soldiers, even when taken prisoner.


http://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky ... l/ch32.htm

This 1998 article in Nezavisimaya Gazeta (in Russian) cites that according to Polish documents 22,000 prisoners died in only in Tuchola alone:

http://vivovoco.rsl.ru/VV/PAPERS/HISTORY/TUCHOLA.HTM

Особой жестокостью обращения и особо тяжелыми условиями отличались польские концлагеря в Стшалково и Тухоли. Последний впервые в выходившей в Варшаве белой прессе был назван "лагерем смерти", и название за ним впоследствии прочно закрепилось. Информируя руководство военного министерства 1 февраля 1922 г. о побегах военнопленных, начальник 2-го отдела Генштаба польской армии полковник И.Матушевский писал: "Эти побеги вызваны условиями, в которых находятся коммунисты и интернированные (отсутствие топлива, белья и одежды, плохое питание, а также долгое ожидание выезда в Россию). Особенно прославился лагерь в Тухоли, который интернированные называют "лагерем смерти" (в этом лагере умерло около 22 000 пленных красноармейцев)".

It goes further saying that mass executions of the Soviets were personally ordered by Sikorski, again according to Polish sources:

Массовые расстрелы российских пленных в 1919-1920 гг. - это не пропагандистская выдумка, как стремятся представить дело некоторые польские СМИ. На сей счет имеются свидетельства самих поляков. Так, А.Велевейский в популярной "Газете выборчей" (от 23 февраля 1994 г.) писал о приказах генерала Сикорского (будущего премьера) расстрелять из пулеметов 300 российских военнопленных, а также генерала Пясецкого не брать живыми в плен российских солдат. Есть информация и о других подобных случаях.?

The author estimates the total Soviet deaths at 50-60,000 as follows:

На основании имеющихся документов можно сделать следующие подсчеты: всего в польском плену оказались не менее 120-130 тыс. человек. Из них репатриировались 69 тыс., перешли в "белые" формирования 5 тыс., остались в Польше на постоянное местожительство - 1 тыс., умерли в лагерях - получается огромная цифра - 50-60 тыс. чел.
Soviet cogitations: 436
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 18 Nov 2006, 21:54
Unperson
Post 13 Dec 2006, 00:59
Quote:
That's why AK (Country's Army) fought with communists after WWII.
That's why Poles revolted in 56', 68', 80-81' and 89'.
Pretty much I'd say.


Shade2 is nothing but a ridiculous troll who tries to infuriate people with his absurd methods of arguing.
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 14
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 22 Dec 2006, 10:00
New Comrade (Say hi & be nice to me!)
Post 22 Dec 2006, 11:50
ok polish friends... lets say that everything of what you said, is happened... but you know that era was a little bit dark...the soviet union was young the opposition was great...enemies were all over the europe, poland has been used as a base for attack ussr... The history is still writing...now is been written fron the victorius right parties and the capitalists...in 30 years the marxists will rewrite history and disclose the truth...
For now please tell me how great is your life beeing in E.U. as an equal (
) member...You know here in greece the capitalists took avantage of your countrymen and albanians who emigrated in Greece (work, work, work for a piece of bread...good life eh???). Your women have been in every strip bar in europe...And you not have seen yet nothing...You did everything to get into EU, in a short time you will regret it...
Soviet cogitations: 159
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 04 Dec 2006, 16:10
Pioneer
Post 23 Dec 2006, 17:26
Jacob, this thread has been dead for a long time why reserect it now?

No mater your reson, necroposting is against the rules

ilistis I asume you did not know this
Henrik_Ibsen,1828-1906 NORWEGIAN DRAMATIST
"You should never put on your best trousers when you go out to fight for freedom and truth."
Soviet cogitations: 285
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 13 Jul 2006, 18:37
Komsomol
Post 26 Dec 2006, 02:18
Quote:
You did everything to get into EU, in a short time you will regret it...

Ya asking people? Better ask fragging goverment. Although it's not revelation it's better to can work for good pay in UK, Germany or France.
Soviet cogitations: 14
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 14 Jun 2007, 14:09
New Comrade (Say hi & be nice to me!)
Post 18 Jun 2007, 11:48
It is one of the numberous myths of the WWII about the Polish cavalry, flapping and scratching German tanks with sabres. At this time, the cavalry was considered as an effective military unit by both Soviet and German armies. People who can read in Russian are to follow this link:
http://militera.lib.ru/research/isaev_av2/05.html
Anyway, it is Poland which had started Soviet-Polish war in 1919. Polish advance was, in fact, supported by the Ukrainian Independantalist movement within the exchange of guarantees to the Ukrainian Independance from Polish side against the historically Ukrainian city Lwow, which was supposed to become a part of the Polish territories. The Red Army was supported by the Soviet part of Ukraine with the capital in Kharkiv.
The First Soviet-Polish war was the one between the Communist Revolutionary Russia which had the plan to proceed the Revolution in Europe, and nationalistic, agressive Poland, motivated to bring back the lost territories of the Western Ukraine under its rule. These never were historically and ethnicaly Polish. The Poles in Western Ukraine are not an indigenous population.
Soviet cogitations: 14
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 14 Jun 2007, 14:09
New Comrade (Say hi & be nice to me!)
Post 18 Jun 2007, 12:04
http://www.krotov.info/lib_sec/11_k/kat/yn_anti.htm

I have just read the article about the tortures commited to Red Army POW's by Poles. I don't know if it's true. It is this story with a cat put inside the POW's stomach.
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 2510
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 28 Feb 2004, 20:50
Party Bureaucrat
Post 18 Jun 2007, 12:21
Well that sounnds a bit weird and utterly disgusting!

Would it be possible that you'll just provide links and 'sources' in english. We're all able to understand it which is not the case for russian. We've perhaps got 10-15 members who actually understand russian... so it is not very much.
Image

Ya Basta!
Soviet cogitations: 14
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 14 Jun 2007, 14:09
New Comrade (Say hi & be nice to me!)
Post 18 Jun 2007, 13:25
I cannot find the links in English. Unfortunately.
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