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Stalin, the "hero"

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Soviet cogitations: 782
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 25 Nov 2004, 17:44
Unperson
Post 26 Nov 2004, 17:28
Lets see.

- 1 000 000 Russians shot between 1935-1950.

- Millions of Russians deported to gulaks.

- In Georgia, 80.000 people shot.

- 30.000-40.000 Polish POWS shot because Stalins order.

- 20 million people (20 000 000) died under his rule, political purges, famine, labour camps.


Wow, Stalin truly was hero, he killed so many "fascits saboteurs".

Soviet cogitations: 1675
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 28 Jun 2004, 19:28
Party Member
Post 26 Nov 2004, 19:05
Are you TRYING to get people to yell at you? That's what you're setting yourself up for.
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Genuine WCM Sig
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Soviet cogitations: 782
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 25 Nov 2004, 17:44
Unperson
Post 26 Nov 2004, 19:18
Farell wrote:
Are you TRYING to get people to yell at you? That's what you're setting yourself up for.



Well, if they get theyr kicks by yelling at me, be my quess.
Soviet cogitations: 233
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 17 Nov 2004, 22:33
Pioneer
Post 26 Nov 2004, 19:44
Kormy you idiot. You don't realise that if it wasn't for Stalin's industrialisation programs and five year plans, Russia would still be a backward country, decades behind the Western countries, and also, Hitler would have been victorious in WW2 if it wasn't for Russia's five year plans.
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Soviet cogitations: 634
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 12 Aug 2004, 22:40
Komsomol
Post 26 Nov 2004, 19:59
Kormy wrote:
Lets see.

- 1 000 000 Russians shot between 1935-1950.

- Millions of Russians deported to gulaks.

- In Georgia, 80.000 people shot.

- 30.000-40.000 Polish POWS shot because Stalins order.

- 20 million people (20 000 000) died under his rule, political purges, famine, labour camps.


Wow, Stalin truly was hero, he killed so many "fascits saboteurs".



Is this information from Robert Conquest? I also wonder how you can blame Stalin for the death of the people which die in the war against nazist forces?
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Soviet cogitations: 283
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 01 Sep 2004, 01:53
Komsomol
Post 26 Nov 2004, 20:36
Kormy wrote:
Lets see.

- 1 000 000 Russians shot between 1935-1950.

- Millions of Russians deported to gulaks.

- In Georgia, 80.000 people shot.

- 30.000-40.000 Polish POWS shot because Stalins order.

- 20 million people (20 000 000) died under his rule, political purges, famine, labour camps.


Wow, Stalin truly was hero, he killed so many "fascits saboteurs".



Tell you what, you shut your lying and filthy mouth and leave the boards and we will leave you in peace.
When we hang the Capitalists they will sell us the rope we use.
-Joseph Stalin
[+-]
Soviet cogitations: 782
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 25 Nov 2004, 17:44
Unperson
Post 26 Nov 2004, 20:40
Comrade Vlad wrote:
Kormy wrote:
Lets see.

- 1 000 000 Russians shot between 1935-1950.

- Millions of Russians deported to gulaks.

- In Georgia, 80.000 people shot.

- 30.000-40.000 Polish POWS shot because Stalins order.

- 20 million people (20 000 000) died under his rule, political purges, famine, labour camps.


Wow, Stalin truly was hero, he killed so many "fascits saboteurs".



Tell you what, you shut your lying and filthy mouth and leave the boards and we will leave you in peace.


Damn, did i mock you'r hero? shees.

Maybe if you could prove me wrong, i would shut up, that "go away and we leave you alone" works on noobs, but you gotta figure something better, cmon.
Last edited by Kormy on 26 Nov 2004, 20:42, edited 1 time in total.
Soviet cogitations: 283
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 01 Sep 2004, 01:53
Komsomol
Post 26 Nov 2004, 20:42
Kormy wrote:
Comrade Vlad wrote:
Kormy wrote:
Lets see.

- 1 000 000 Russians shot between 1935-1950.

- Millions of Russians deported to gulaks.

- In Georgia, 80.000 people shot.

- 30.000-40.000 Polish POWS shot because Stalins order.

- 20 million people (20 000 000) died under his rule, political purges, famine, labour camps.


Wow, Stalin truly was hero, he killed so many "fascits saboteurs".



Tell you what, you shut your lying and filthy mouth and leave the boards and we will leave you in peace.


Hehe, got angry?

Maybe if you could prove me wrong, i would shut up, that "go away and we leave you alone" works on noobs, but you gotta figure something better, cmon.


You are a noob. if you weren't you wouldn't be posting that crap.

Do me a favor and for once in your pitiful life look at the other side of things.

Read the article "U.S.S.R. history lies" on the left side. Click the link.
When we hang the Capitalists they will sell us the rope we use.
-Joseph Stalin
Soviet cogitations: 18
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 21 Nov 2004, 15:00
New Comrade (Say hi & be nice to me!)
Post 27 Nov 2004, 00:11
so it's a lie Stalin killed som many?? you know what happened when a large group of Swedes came from Kiruna?? They all got killed by your hero... and not to mention those poor finns that stayed behind efter -44.... and that group of people near the Black Sea which was condemd for nazi-collaboration and got deported.... and all the chechnyans... man you belive in such lies when you deny Stalins masskills, that's like saying: The holocaust never existed, it's Hollywood...
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Soviet cogitations: 4479
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Oct 2004, 22:04
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Resident Soviet
Post 27 Nov 2004, 00:53
You know guys, I think it would be better to just discuss with with Kormy instead of just criticizing him without foundation. Here's my attempt to reason with you:

First of all, you should listen to sovietjon. Stalin was vital to the building of the Soviet industrial capacity prior to the Second World War. Secondly, it was the peoples devotion to the motherland, to religion, and partially to Stalin which won the war itself.

Second, although I can see some of your facts as being true (those shot, deported, POWs shot), and recognize that this was by no means a good thing, the other 20,000,000 you mention are another story. First of all: that is quite a round number isn't it? You talk very serious numbers (30,000, 80,000), and then you go up and say "rougly 20 million, give or take a million or two". This is not statistics. This is rounding everything up continually in the interests of your own political ideology (not necessarily yours, but the people who thought up the statistic). Often times, people say "Hmm, what would sound like a really high amount" even without having real data with them. You talk of the political purges: Most of them were designed to eliminate high officials that Stalin (being paranoid) thought were plotting against him. Altogether, including the officer purges of the 1930s, this cannot be higher than 100,000. You talk of famine, but there is an article on this very forum that discusses the possibility of falsification of numbers : . Further, even if it is true, consider this: you say "Give up your land". The people say "No". They burn their crops, kill their animals and baracade themselves in their property. What are you supposed to do, send them flowers? The Soviet agricultural department wasn't doing so well in the early 1930s, and the provocations of the Ukranians left Stalin no choice (in my opinon) to do what he had done.

As discussed in an earlier forum, the Soviet archive records (actual records, and not some western speculation) put the number of inmates in the Gulag at 3.8 million people. Out of those people, about a million died (963766). This is still a very high number, and it is sad that many of those people may have been political prisonsers (about 18.6% to be precise). However, the numbers from offical archives show that the absurd claims of "10000000000000000 million people being killed by Stalin" really are.
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Soviet cogitations: 866
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 05 Mar 2003, 16:07
Komsomol
Post 27 Nov 2004, 18:25
Ognen wrote:
The easiest way to show that Stalin wasn't a "mass murderer" is through comparative demography:

Code: Select all
Country --- Year --- Population --- Year --- Population --- Annual Growth Rate
England --- 1920 --- 43'718     --- 1960 --- 52'559     --- 0,46%
France  --- 1920 --- 38'750     --- 1960 --- 45'684     --- 0,41%
Germany --- 1920 --- 61'794     --- 1960 --- 72'664     --- 0,41%
RE/USSR --- 1913 --- 159'153    --- 1959 --- 208'827    --- 0,60%


Even though Russia suffered enormous casualties in WWI (not counted for other countries), Civil War, Intervention and WWII, it has kept the highest annual growth rate through the years. The other way to convince people is to send them to read ГАРФ (State Archive of Russian Federation). But unfortunately, the thread always stops at this point, people pretend they haven't seen my reply or have forgotten about it. And in a few days, another thread with same crappy content pops up...

I won't tell you the number of "victims of Stalin's terror", I want you to do some research yourself using official records. But it will be enough to say that democracy in Russia kills more people each year, which loses million of citizens every year. 6'000 die every day, only 3'400 are born. Average life expectancy for men is 56 years (an average Russian dies before retiring), 70 for women. Only 10% of those who finish school are fully healthy. 60% of the students can't find a job after they graduate. That also refers to demography, that's why I wrote it.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Oct 2004, 22:04
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Resident Soviet
Post 27 Nov 2004, 21:27
Thanks Papergut
Last edited by soviet78 on 11 Oct 2006, 12:08, edited 1 time in total.
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Soviet cogitations: 866
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 05 Mar 2003, 16:07
Komsomol
Post 28 Nov 2004, 17:49
Code: Select all
1 февраля 1954 г.

Секретарю ЦК КПСС товарищу Хрущеву Н.С.

В связи с поступающими в ЦК КПСС сигналами от ряда лиц о незаконном осуждении за контрреволюционные преступления в прошлые годы Коллегией ОГПУ, тройками НКВД, Особым совещанием, Военной коллегией, судами и военными трибуналами и в соответствии с вашим указанием о необходимости пересмотреть дела на лиц, осужденных за контрреволюционные преступления и ныне содержащихся в лагерях и тюрьмах, докладываем: за время с 1921 года по настоящее время за контрреволюционные преступления было осуждено 3.777.380 человек, в том числе к ВМН - 642.980 человек, к содержанию в лагерях и тюрьмах на срок от 25 лет и ниже - 2.369.220, в ссылку и высылку - 765.180 человек.

Из общего количества осужденных, ориентировочно, осуждено: 2.900.000 человек - Коллегией ОГПУ, тройками НКВД и Особым совещанием и 877.000 человек - судами, военными трибуналами, Спецколлегией и Военной коллегией.

... Следует отметить, что созданным на основании Постановления ЦИК и СНК СССР от 5 ноября 1934 года Особым совещанием при НКВД СССР, которое просуществовало до 1 сентября 1953 года, было осуждено 442.531 человек, в том числе к ВМН - 10.101 человек, к лишению свободы - 360.921 человек, к ссылке и высылке (в пределах страны) - 57.539 человек и к другим мерам наказания (зачет времени нахождения под стражей, высылка за границу, принудительное лечение) - 3.970 человек ...

Генеральный прокурор Р.Руденко
Министр внутренних дел С.Круглов
Министр юстиции К.Горшенин


Translation that I found:

Helen Blau wrote:
Early in 1954 a certificate addressed to N.S. Khrushchev about the number of those convicted for counter-revolutionary activities from 1921 to 1953 was made at the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the USSR i.e. according to article 58 of the Penal Code of the Russian Soviet Federal Socialist Republic as well as to the relevant articles of the other Union Republics (this document was signed by the Minister of Internal Affairs of USSR, S. N. Kruglov and the Minister of Justice of the USSR K.P. Gorshenin and by the Prosecutor-General of the USSR R.A. Rudenko).

That was a certificate of five type-written pages of February 1, 1954 made according to the instructions given by N.S. Khrushchev. It said that according to the data available at the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the USSR from 1921 up to the beginning of 1954 the Board of the Department of Central Political Administrative Board (DCPAB) Troikas of People's Commissariat of the Internal Affairs, a Special meeting of the Military Boards, the Courts and the Military Tribunals convicted 3,777,380 people, including 642,980 people convicted to capital punishment, 2,369,220 people to serve in work camps and in prison, 765,180 people convicted into exile and deportation.

It was stated that out of the total number of people convicted for counter-revolutionary activities about 2.9 million were convicted by the Board of DCPAB, Troikas of People's Commissariat of Internal Affairs, a Special meeting (i.e. by the extra-judicial bodies) and 877,000 people were convicted by the Courts and the Military Tribunals.

At present, said the certificate, 467,946 people convicted for counter-revolutionary crimes, are kept in camps and prisons and apart from that 62,462 people are in exile after having served their sentences for the counter-revolutionary crimes. (State Archives of the Russian Federation, Fund 9402, Inventory 2, Case 450).
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 22 Mar 2004, 18:19
Komsomol
Post 01 Dec 2004, 13:50
Go fertilize your garden with your bulls**t, Kormy. You dont even try to back up your post here.
COMMIE-HA-ME-HA!!!
Quote from Stalin Ball Z
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 04 Aug 2004, 16:42
Party Member
Post 01 Dec 2004, 14:37
you blame him for what?
Most Russians that I know hate Stalin, he didn't acomplish shit.
Who won the war? the Generals
did stalin improove the USSR? Nope
did he make any new policies? Nope, he just fragged up the Old Lenin Policies

have been in USSR or Russia? have talked to anyone living in that era? I doubt it, I have

Else shut the frag up.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 22 Mar 2004, 18:19
Komsomol
Post 01 Dec 2004, 14:46
I didnt say that Stalin was a friggin soviet superman who built 3472394 factories himself and kicked nazi army back to Berlin. I just wanted some back up to Kormys first post.
No need to yell.
COMMIE-HA-ME-HA!!!
Quote from Stalin Ball Z
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Working class will kick your ass.
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Soviet cogitations: 4479
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Oct 2004, 22:04
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Resident Soviet
Post 01 Dec 2004, 16:16
1. Actually, many Russians like Stalin, and most are indifferent (I think that was mentioned on this board before). Only around a third don't like him. My grandmother, who recently passed away, had a Stalin icon up beside those of Jesus and Mary.

2. PEOPLE won the war, not generals.

3. And Stalin did improve the USSR by industrializing it and saving the country and the world from fascism, not to mention starting up a second superpower from a backwards agrarian state.

4. Saying you talked to people who lived in the USSR doesn't make you authoritative on the issue. I have lived in the USSR, and have many family there, including some (my grandfather) who were persecuted by Stalin. Yet most agree that what he did was for the better (scaling his bad deeds with his good).
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Soviet cogitations: 782
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 25 Nov 2004, 17:44
Unperson
Post 01 Dec 2004, 20:18
soviet78 wrote:
1. Actually, many Russians like Stalin, and most are indifferent (I think that was mentioned on this board before). Only around a third don't like him. My grandmother, who recently passed away, had a Stalin icon up beside those of Jesus and Mary.

2. PEOPLE won the war, not generals.

3. And Stalin did improve the USSR by industrializing it and saving the country and the world from fascism, not to mention starting up a second superpower from a backwards agrarian state.

4. Saying you talked to people who lived in the USSR doesn't make you authoritative on the issue. I have lived in the USSR, and have many family there, including some (my grandfather) who were persecuted by Stalin. Yet most agree that what he did was for the better (scaling his bad deeds with his good).



1. Nice to see that his propaganda worked.

2. No, without generals "people" would have been slaughtered.

3. And what was the cost of "industriliazing" of USSR?

4. -
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Soviet cogitations: 423
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 17 Nov 2004, 21:22
Komsomol
Post 01 Dec 2004, 20:38
I'm Netural on the subject of Stalin being a hero. All I know is the Soviet Union was victorious in WWII. Did Stalin's ways play a part? Yes. If he did otherwise would the Soviet Union have won? I'm not sure. But it's safe to say that the Soviet Union would be different than what it would of been.


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Well I think Stalin was a hero. He was feared and loved. Like me.


You got that right Kefka.
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Soviet cogitations: 568
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 02 Sep 2004, 17:54
Komsomol
Post 01 Dec 2004, 21:00
soviet78 wrote:
2. PEOPLE won the war, not generals.


Generals can decide the outcome of wars just as much as the soldiers. The soldiers just have to pay the higher price for victory. Weak soldiers will lose no matter how good their general commands them, and a weak general can get all of his soldiers killed if he doesn't have his head on straight. In the case of the Soviety Union there was good leadership and good people.

So, Stalin a hero? I guess I can agree with that, but it all depends on your perspective.
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