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Was Stalingrad's role as a turning point exaggerated?

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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 17 Jun 2004, 17:25
New Comrade (Say hi & be nice to me!)
Post 17 Jun 2004, 17:27
Im actually writing an essay on this
Would appreciate help of all sorts

Kursk I believe is a contender for turning point
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 04 Jan 2003, 15:32
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Post 17 Jun 2004, 17:40
Kursk is far too late in the war to be considered the turning point. In the winter of 1941 Zhukov's counter attack around Moscosw almost broke the overstretched German army. Stalingrad is the obvious choice since the sixth army was totally annihilated. An undisputable victory.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 17 Jun 2004, 17:25
New Comrade (Say hi & be nice to me!)
Post 17 Jun 2004, 18:59
It can be argued however that Stalingrad did not singlehandedly determine the outcome of the war but merely set the stage of Kursk.
I mean the Germans were still able to launch a counteroffensive after Stalingrad at Kharkov. Moreover, the Soviets had yet to prove they could stop a German summer offensive. I think Kursk put the new Soviet strategy into practice. In addition, the bulk of German armour was destroyed in Kursk and even Hitler acknowledged its significance.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 14 Jun 2004, 00:08
Komsomol
Post 18 Jun 2004, 23:15
I think operation Babarbarasa was the Turning point cause as soon as Germany lunched that offensive they lost the ability to fight on other fronts.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 24 Mar 2003, 19:17
Unperson
Post 19 Jun 2004, 09:06
Let me quote myself:

Without Stalingrad victory, Moscow campaign would be LOST - Hitler will just circumvent it, attacking Moscow lines in the rear.

So, basicly, final fate of Moscow was decided at Stalingrad, not at Moscow.




Turning point in warfare is basicly when attacking side loses combat initiative to choose ground, and becomes "defending side".

So, real turning point is Kursk Duga offensive.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 14 Aug 2004, 04:37
Pioneer
Post 14 Aug 2004, 07:57
I think Stalingrad was most definately not over exaggerated as the turning point in the war. If the Soviets didn't hold Stalingrad...would there have been a victory at Kursk there after? Nope. It was the last obstacle of the "nazi jackboot" ... only thing left after Stalingrad was the ultimate prize, the oilfields of Asia. The whole country would have went down the pooper and Stalin would have been hung in front of the Reichstag 2 weeks later with a swastika marked on his forehead...sorry got a little carried away.
"Comrades! We must abolish the cult of the individual decisively, once and for all."
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 14 Jun 2004, 00:08
Komsomol
Post 17 Aug 2004, 08:06
What about the Bulage was that the last German offensive ? And wason't it right after Stalingrad in North Africa didn't a nother 300 000 Axis troops the same amount as in Stalingrad surrender to the Western Allies what about that victory ?
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 30 Jun 2004, 20:40
Pioneer
Post 17 Aug 2004, 19:00
Stalingrad was a turning point. When the Kessel was overran in 1943, Soviet morale grew and pushed the Germans out of the Caucus, nearly overruning Army Group A and Army Group Don. After all that, German manpower was falling, after losing half a million men, with nearly all allied armies destroyed, and 4th Panzer Army losing most of it's strength.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 02 Sep 2004, 19:26
New Comrade (Say hi & be nice to me!)
Post 03 Sep 2004, 02:01
Stalingrad was also a turning point psychologically (excuse me if I spelt it wrong) It could demoralize the Soviet peopleeven more than Hitler's lightning fast Blitzkrieg through Eastern Europe
"And When he gets to Heaven
To St. Peter he will tell
Another soldier reporting sir
I've served my time in Hell"

I SERVE THE SOVIET UNION!
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 01 Sep 2004, 01:53
Komsomol
Post 03 Sep 2004, 03:02
Comrade Demitrios wrote:
Stalin would have been hung in front of the Reichstag 2 weeks later with a swastika marked on his forehead...sorry got a little carried away.


Definetely not. He would probably do what the old Tsar's did when nNapolean stopped by. Burn Moscow, go East.
When we hang the Capitalists they will sell us the rope we use.
-Joseph Stalin
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 27 May 2004, 03:40
Komsomol
Post 03 Sep 2004, 05:06
I dont think he would have let that happen. His ego wouldnt let it. He would have fought to the death.
The revolucion will come to amerika and i will be there awaiting it
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 24 Mar 2003, 19:17
Unperson
Post 06 Sep 2004, 06:22
Yes, Stalin would fight to death, leading the Kremlin Regiment to battle himself (at least, it was his intentions). Such death will make him look even more heroic and inspiring.


When Nazis would occupy Moscow, Soviets would burn it and go East.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 14 Jun 2004, 00:08
Komsomol
Post 06 Sep 2004, 06:46
Well if the Germans took Moscow which i doupt they could have, it would damage the Soviet Wareffort derly, Because Moscow serves as a major Rail and Road link.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 24 Mar 2003, 19:17
Unperson
Post 06 Sep 2004, 06:58
=SoViEt= wrote:
Well if the Germans took Moscow which i doupt they could have, it would damage the Soviet Wareffort derly, Because Moscow serves as a major Rail and Road link.


I agree.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 22 Feb 2004, 06:36
Unperson
Post 17 Sep 2004, 06:20
=SoViEt= wrote:
And wason't it right after Stalingrad in North Africa didn't a nother 300 000 Axis troops the same amount as in Stalingrad surrender to the Western Allies what about that victory ?

In World War 2, one refers to three great turning points. Stalingrad, El Alamein, and Changsha. It should be noted that just as with Stalingrad, the fate of Axis troops in Africa was not decided at El Alamein. That decision came at El Guettar (where Patton's inflated legend was born), which could be considered Africa's Kursk in terms of strategic importance.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 21 Nov 2004, 20:31
Party Bureaucrat
Post 29 Jun 2005, 03:17
Quote:
the fate of Axis troops in Africa was not decided at El Alamein.


Yes it was.

After the Battle of El Alamein Nort Africa was lost for Axis. British were driving Axis back to west from Egypt, and Anglo-American forces landed on Vichy France North Africa. Allies were sending Italian merchant ships rapidly to bottom of the sea, which meant that more and more less supplies and equipment reached Africa.

Afrika Korps did receive new tanks, including Tigers, supplies and equipment, but these could only slow down the inevitable. Rommel himself said so.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 27 Jul 2004, 04:43
Komsomol
Post 29 Jun 2005, 07:16
Stalingrad was the turning point of the war on the Eastern Front.
From then on the whermacht was in steady retreat.
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"None are more hopelessly enslaved than
those who falsely believe they are free."
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 21 Nov 2004, 20:31
Party Bureaucrat
Post 29 Jun 2005, 09:29
Quote:
From then on the whermacht was in steady retreat.


Incorrect.

Germans managed to regain territory even after Stalingrad, and launched massive counter offensive agaisnt Soviets.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 30 Sep 2004, 03:25
Komsomol
Post 29 Jun 2005, 11:51
Germany made so many mistakes anyway. Especially the idea of taking stalingrad was dumb, they should have continued to Moscow.

As for Stalin, he is not a fighter. He had a train waiting for him in moscow to run away.
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Soviet cogitations: 2848
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 21 Nov 2004, 20:31
Party Bureaucrat
Post 29 Jun 2005, 12:18
Quote:
Germany made so many mistakes anyway. Especially the idea of taking stalingrad was dumb, they should have continued to Moscow.


You have no idea what you are talking about.

Taking Stalingrad was part of taking Moscow.
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