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Why do American liberals romanticise about Europe?

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Soviet cogitations: 1782
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Oct 2009, 20:08
Resident Artist
Post 19 Feb 2014, 12:58
American liberals seem to think that America is a "socialist" (social democratic) paradise with strong unions, ever increasing living standards, strong employment laws etc.? The UK is different because its economic model is closer to the US than to continental Europe and I will exclude the UK from this post, but social provisions are being rolled back. Even though education is cheaper over there, unemployment is still rife, unemployment insurance dwindling, pensions deficits increasing, employment laws easily circumvented.

Continential Europe is not as bad as the UK and the US but it's moving towards there and has done for the last few decades.

I mainly get this impression from reading books from liberal authors like Michael Moore and liberal forums.
Soviet cogitations: 304
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 05 Feb 2014, 00:36
Komsomol
Post 19 Feb 2014, 15:35
Tails wrote:
American liberals seem to think that America is a "socialist" (social democratic) paradise with strong unions, ever increasing living standards, strong employment laws etc.? The UK is different because its economic model is closer to the US than to continental Europe and I will exclude the UK from this post, but social provisions are being rolled back. Even though education is cheaper over there, unemployment is still rife, unemployment insurance dwindling, pensions deficits increasing, employment laws easily circumvented.

Continential Europe is not as bad as the UK and the US but it's moving towards there and has done for the last few decades.

I mainly get this impression from reading books from liberal authors like Michael Moore and liberal forums.


Because American politics and capitalism are so bare-faced of basic reforms that strong Western European reformism (which, I'll remind you, were instituted directly to prevent communist revolution) appear to be magical and happy even though they're just a baseline.

Well, to a certain extent. To be honest I think the economic conditions created by the welfare state in the context of capitalism (eg. welfare etc) cause a lot of problems and wouldn't be necessary or wanted under socialism, but still the concept of socialized medicine is just so amazing to America where the monopoly capitalists literally own people's well-being that Europe looks a proper paradise.
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Soviet cogitations: 1782
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Oct 2009, 20:08
Resident Artist
Post 21 Feb 2014, 01:11
Tails wrote:
Why do American liberals seem to think that Europe is a "socialist" (social democratic) paradise with strong unions, ever increasing living standards, strong employment laws etc.?

Wow, fixed. Using a touchscreen sucks sometimes.

somewhat wrote:
Because American politics and capitalism are so bare-faced of basic reforms that strong Western European reformism (which, I'll remind you, were instituted directly to prevent communist revolution) appear to be magical and happy even though they're just a baseline.

Well, to a certain extent. To be honest I think the economic conditions created by the welfare state in the context of capitalism (eg. welfare etc) cause a lot of problems and wouldn't be necessary or wanted under socialism, but still the concept of socialized medicine is just so amazing to America where the monopoly capitalists literally own people's well-being that Europe looks a proper paradise.

You're correct that the welfare state was born from communist agitation. The problem is that liberals don't understand that social democracy is a temporary phenomenon and when capital has an opportunity to strike, as happened before under globalisation and the current financial crisis, it strikes hard. Those economic rights will never return back once taken away and will revert back to 19th Century-style capitalism.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 16 Dec 2011, 00:54
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Komsomol
Post 23 Feb 2014, 22:37
Agree with both of you.
The hack and slash of the NHS alone is a Humpty Dumpty situation.
There is very little chance of the privatisation being rolled back.
Especially given Labour helped bring it about doing half the Tories work for them.
The surprising part is people have an alternative to mainstream media now in the internet yet still remain unaware of how far this gutting has gone and are woefully apathetic.
"A shiny bauble from Capitalism is worthless when the cost is Children & the Elderly going hungry, The Infirm & Sick dying because of Greed & Education reduced to a token few to placate the masses with Illusions of freedom."
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Soviet cogitations: 172
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 28 Feb 2012, 16:12
Ideology: Left Communism
Pioneer
Post 16 Aug 2014, 20:03
Leftist American media are in the hands of the less reactionary sections of the American bourgeoisie and uphold bourgeois class interests.

These don't want revolution, but they're not fond of hands-on brutal repression either. They're convinced that the correct way to maintain their hegemony is to make as many concessions as necessary to get the working masses to support their system. They're also generally linked to the Democratic Party, and their ultimate goal is to make it dominant by turning it into a social-democratic party that can buy the support of the working public. Partly out of idealism, partly out of self-preservation and partly out of self-interest: It's better to boost aggregate demand by raising workers' disposable income through State-funded social services than to pay for a Fascistic police state for the bottom line of almost every bourgeois that's not part of the security-industrial complex.

Rank and file Americans idealize the European system because it had achieved several of the things they're struggling for: Proportional Representation, the right to collective bargaining, subsidized college tuition and single-payer socialized healthcare. This admiration for the conquests of European workers serves the needs of the social democratic faction of the American small and medium bourgeoisie and their pseudo-leftist intelligentsia.
Last edited by KlassWar on 16 Aug 2014, 21:21, edited 2 times in total.
Cm'on baby, eat the rich!!! - Motörhead
Soviet cogitations: 28
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 02 Jan 2015, 07:22
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Pioneer
Post 07 Jan 2015, 07:16
The American Democrat Party are often to the right of the British Conservatvie party - and people there call Obama a Communist! kind of absurd, lol
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