Soviet-Empire.com U.S.S.R. and communism historical discussion.
[ Active ]
[ Login ]
Log-in to remove these advertisements.

I'm looking for a civilized answer that is not blatant bs

POST REPLY
Soviet cogitations: 1
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 12 Jan 2014, 13:31
New Comrade (Say hi & be nice to me!)
Post 12 Jan 2014, 13:35
Why do you oppose fascism? I, as a national socialist myself can not believe how dumb most of the extreme left are and I'm not saying extreme right (You know, the skinheads, the self proclaimed national socialists) are. I've looked around a bit for the answer and I can't a good one, most of them are that fascism is racist, which is completely false from two perspectives, first, fascism is not racist and second of all, fascism is a political ideology. And don't you worry, I've finished philosophy college, read your beloved manifesto several times, read the whole das Kapital and so forth. Now, go ahead, I'd love to see your arguements because so far I haven't heard one single decent one - not in real life, not on the internet.
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 238
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 12 Jun 2011, 15:14
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Pioneer
Post 14 Jan 2014, 06:53
It comes down to what political principles one values. I for one favour a social contract, with a "bill of rights socialism". So I favour Communism, with a constitution, such as the Constitution of the U.S.S.R., over National Socialism, with it's Fuhrerprinzip. I am inclined to think that "Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men.". So I feel that political power should be held accountable to the people, in some way.
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 4405
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Oct 2004, 22:04
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Resident Soviet
Post 14 Jan 2014, 07:13
If you want to ignore the historic racism of Nazi ideology, the other main argument against fascism/Nazism is that they defend the interests of the bourgeoisie (and to a lesser extent the petite bourgeoisie) over that of the working class majority. If early Soviet socialism during the phase of its construction was an outright 'dictatorship of the proletariat', and made no pretense to being anything else, fascism is the naked dictatorship of the bourgeoisie, and does a poor job pretending to be anything else. I suppose this radicalism of fascism is also what made it historically more prone to wars of aggression, and this is but another reason to oppose it.

In the West today, the so-called non-racist fascists are often frustrated and angry young people who are tired of the political and economic crisis-ridden bourgeoisie democratic system and are willing to fight for something new. Unfortunately, the honest, non-opportunist among them seem unaware that the supposedly new system they're fighting for is really just the naked, direct exploitative capitalism without the window dressing of bourgeois democratic institutions.
"The thing about capitalism is that it sounds awful on paper and is horrendous in practice. Communism sounds wonderful on paper and when it was put into practice it was done pretty well for what they had to work with." -MiG
Loz
[+-]
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 11879
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 06 Dec 2009, 23:17
Philosophized
Post 14 Jan 2014, 08:37
Just bugger off and crawl back into whatever whole you crawled out from, vermin. This is a communist forum. Who the hell let this troll here anyway?
There's no civilized language for fascists, the only language you pest understand is boot to the face.
Image
Soviet cogitations: 10005
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 14 Jul 2008, 20:01
Ideology: Trotskyism
Philosophized
Post 14 Jan 2014, 15:31
Trotsky wrote:
Fascism has opened up the depths of society for politics. Today, not only in peasant homes but also in city skyscrapers, there lives alongside of the twentieth century the tenth or the thirteenth. A hundred million people use electricity and still believe in the magic power of signs and exorcisms. The Pope of Rome broadcasts over the radio about the miraculous transformation of water into wine. Movie stars go to mediums. Aviators who pilot miraculous mechanisms created by man’s genius wear amulets on their sweaters. What inexhaustible reserves they possess of darkness, ignorance, and savagery! Despair has raised them to their feet, fascism has given them a banner. Everything that should have been eliminated from the national organism in the form of cultural excrement in the course of the normal development of society has now come gushing out from the throat; capitalist society is vomiting undigested barbarism. Such is the physiology of National Socialism.

German fascism, like Italian fascism, raised itself to power on the backs of the petty bourgeoisie, which it turned into a battering ram against the organizations of the working class and the institutions of democracy. But fascism in power is least of all the rule of the petty bourgeoisie. On the contrary, it is the most ruthless dictatorship of monopoly capital. Mussolini is right: the middle classes are incapable of independent policies. During periods of great crisis they are called upon to reduce to absurdity the policies of one of the two basic classes. Fascism succeeded in putting them at the service of capital. Such slogans as state control of trusts and the elimination of unearned income were thrown overboard immediately upon the assumption of power. Instead, the particularism of German “lands” leaning upon the peculiarities of the petty bourgeoisie gave way to capitalist-police centralism. Every success of the internal and foreign policies of National Socialism will inevitably mean the further crushing of small capital by large.

The program of petty-bourgeois illusions is not discarded; it is simply torn away from reality, and dissolved in ritualistic acts. The unification of all classes reduces itself to semisymbolic compulsory labor and to the confiscation of the labor holiday of May Day for the “benefit of the people.” The preservation of the Gothic script as opposed to the Latin is a symbolic revenge for the yoke of the world market. The dependence upon the international bankers, Jews among their number, is not eased an iota, wherefore it is forbidden to slaughter animals according to the Talmudic ritual. If the road to heaven is paved with good intentions, then the avenues of the Third Reich are paved with symbols.

Reducing the program of petty-bourgeois illusions to a naked bureaucratic masquerade, National Socialism raises itself over the nation as the worst form of imperialism. Absolutely vain are hopes that Hitler’s government will fail today or tomorrow, a victim of its internal inconsistency. The Nazis required the program in order to assume power; but power serves Hitler not at all for the purpose of fuming the program. His tasks are assigned him by monopoly capital. The compulsory concentration of all forces and resources of the people in the interests of imperialism – the true historic mission of the fascist dictatorship – means preparation for war; and this task, in its turn, brooks no internal resistance and leads to a further mechanical concentration of power. Fascism cannot be reformed or retired from service. It can only be overthrown. The political orbit of the regime leans upon the alternative, war or revolution.


Image
"Don't know why i'm still surprised with this shit anyway." - Loz
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 4405
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Oct 2004, 22:04
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Resident Soviet
Post 14 Jan 2014, 19:15
Indiana Jones probably isn't the best example here

Image


...

All I'm saying is that I look at fascists as confused, angry youths, American History X style, that often times really do have something to be angry about, especially in our crisis ridden world. Instead of talking about punching them in the face, maybe we should try to convince them that, as Trotsky wrote, they are being tricked into fighting in the interests of those who oppress and exploit them, if not for the OP, then for other people with fascist leanings who might come across this page.
"The thing about capitalism is that it sounds awful on paper and is horrendous in practice. Communism sounds wonderful on paper and when it was put into practice it was done pretty well for what they had to work with." -MiG
Soviet cogitations: 112
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 28 Apr 2013, 20:13
Pioneer
Post 15 Jan 2014, 01:49
As previously mentioned, we oppose fascism because it upholds the capitalist mode of production and therefore represents the dictatorship of capital and the bourgeoisie over the working masses. They do not represent the interest of society at large, as communism does. As communists, we seek to abolish private property and, eventually, classes altogether. Fascists seek to maintain private property and defend the interests of the capitalists over the proletariat.

Fascism also supports the idea of a one-man authoritarian government over the people. As Mussolini himself put it:

Mussolini wrote:
All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state.


Essentially, there is no collectivism within fascism. It is merely the rule of one man. Fascism also represents ultra-nationalism and militaristic imperialism. Fascists seek to dominate 'subordinate' states according to fascist ideology. Imperialism and nationalism are of course bad, because they both represent the interests of the minority. Fascism represents the enslavement of other nations for the 'glory of the state'.

Oh yeah. And the whole mass murder thing.

Also, you refer to yourself as a 'national socialist'. Simply put, you are a Nazi. Nazism is bad, of course, because (in addition to all of the things posted here), it asserts the 'superiority' of a race over another.

As soviet78 mentioned, capitalism is obviously in a crisis and a new order is needed. We as society need to move forward, cast off the shackles of oppression, and fight for a difference. Obviously, we both recognise the problems of modern liberal-democratic Western societies and many young people, such as yourself are drawn to its ideas. But it won't make a difference. Fascism will lead us straight into ruthless tyranny and repression.
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 238
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 12 Jun 2011, 15:14
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Pioneer
Post 16 Jan 2014, 07:01
Loz-
Quote:
Just bugger off and crawl back into whatever whole you crawled out from, vermin. This is a communist forum. Who the hell let this troll here anyway?
I do think that the original poster would be happier, and get further, at our sister forum http://www.politicsforum.org/forum/index.php We have a few self proclaimed fascists there, and we Communists seem to have worthwhile discourse with them, while still civilly disagreeing.
Quote:
There's no civilized language for fascists, the only language you pest understand is boot to the face.
I know of this one woman whom told me that she used to be a fascist. She's now a Communist. So I do believe that at least some fascists can be convinced of the errors of their ways. Like in this famous example. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULsTm5VR73c So ideological views are not static, and can metamorphosize.
Soviet cogitations: 12389
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 18 Apr 2010, 04:44
Ideology: None
Philosophized
Post 16 Jan 2014, 07:23
Image
Miss Strangelove: "You feed giants laxatives so goblins can mine their poop before the gnomes get to it."
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 341
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Mar 2003, 02:29
Komsomol
Post 23 Jan 2014, 00:22
This is obviously a troll attempt, the user should probably be unpersoned.
Image
Alternative Display:
Mobile view
More Forums: The History Forum. The UK Politics Forum.
© 2000- Soviet-Empire.com. Privacy.
cron