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Situation of Soviet Jews in USSR with Sex Offenders in US

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Soviet cogitations: 4381
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Oct 2004, 22:04
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Resident Soviet
Post 13 Apr 2012, 02:50
article posted by estrinfima wrote:
The percentage of Jewish students (including evening and correspondence students) fell from 14.4% in 1928–29 to 3.2% in 1960–61. Though the official percentage of Jews in the total population was in 1960–61 approximately 1.1% and in the urban population 2.2%, the above-mentioned percentage of Jewish students should be considered, according to A. Nove and J.A. Newth, to be proportionately low.


YGB85 wrote:
So where do you see it talking about anti-semitism?
It talks about possible quotas for higher education enrollment, which did not only affect Jews.
Of course the percentage of Jews among students dropped significantly from the 1920's to 1960's, since other nationalities progressed during the period in between and also started to seek higher education.


Also estrinfima, if you recall the article on "Scientific Work of Jews in the USSR" which I posted above, it notes that while the percentage proportionately declined, the absolute number of Jews in the education system still continued to increase into the 1960s.

estrinfima wrote:
I do not know if this was pure anti semitism but I know there were some antisemitic people on soviet high level.


On what basis can you make that assumption?

estrinfima wrote:
They better deleted Chapter 5 in passport and put there Soviet Citizen for all...Then what was these quotas? in my opinion that was pure racism, like nazi cared who have how many jewish blood: half or quoter. Soviet government cared too, there were records.


That's something we can argue, and something that is being argued in Russia at present (there is no Chapter 5 in the passport today). On the same basis it could have been argued that the internal borders of the Soviet state should have been modified according to lines other than national republican. Still, it's wrong to confuse a policy which was meant to recognize and promote national culture and to display pride of a union of multiple nationalities working together to build communism with Nazi policy, which marked race in a hierarchical matter, making one group the superrace while destining others for slavery and destruction. It's wrong and frankly insulting, because as I've already noted above, the Soviet state and its multiethnic army played the main role in the destruction of the Nazi idea.
"The thing about capitalism is that it sounds awful on paper and is horrendous in practice. Communism sounds wonderful on paper and when it was put into practice it was done pretty well for what they had to work with." -MiG
Soviet cogitations: 19
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 02 Apr 2012, 22:51
New Comrade (Say hi & be nice to me!)
Post 13 Apr 2012, 05:48
soviet78 wrote:

That's something we can argue, and something that is being argued in Russia at present (there is no Chapter 5 in the passport today). On the same basis it could have been argued that the internal borders of the Soviet state should have been modified according to lines other than national republican. Still, it's wrong to confuse a policy which was meant to recognize and promote national culture and to display pride of a union of multiple nationalities working together to build communism with Nazi policy, which marked race in a hierarchical matter, making one group the superrace while destining others for slavery and destruction. It's wrong and frankly insulting, because as I've already noted above, the Soviet state and its multiethnic army played the main role in the destruction of the Nazi idea.


If you read Vasiliy Grossman book 'Life and destination'. you may find that there he has parallels between Nazi and Soviet system.
This was very shocking for us in 1989 to read that. Remember Hitler party name was National Socialists Workers Party. Hitler was very popular in Germany. He provided jobs, and stops crisis, built roads and bridges. After 1985 in USSR we read a lot of different articles and books. Unfortunately there
are something similar between Nazi and Soviet communists. There were a very good ideas and not so good people on the top level in USSR.
In my time in USSR communism was an anecdote and joke. Sorry, but these old men like Leonid Brezhnev led country to disaster. Communism is not dogma, and we live in real world. And leadership of USSR were stupid enough. Any small business was illegal. Government owned everything. There were nothing to eat because government decided what collective farms need to do. They needed to change that to prevent USSR destroying, also they needed to stop Jews persecution. they did not do that.
JAM
[+-]
Soviet cogitations: 172
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 09 Mar 2012, 02:37
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Pioneer
Post 13 Apr 2012, 17:49
estrinfima wrote:

If you read Vasiliy Grossman book 'Life and destination'. you may find that there he has parallels between Nazi and Soviet system.
This was very shocking for us in 1989 to read that. Remember Hitler party name was National Socialists Workers Party. Hitler was very popular in Germany. He provided jobs, and stops crisis, built roads and bridges. After 1985 in USSR we read a lot of different articles and books. Unfortunately there
are something similar between Nazi and Soviet communists. There were a very good ideas and not so good people on the top level in USSR.
In my time in USSR communism was an anecdote and joke. Sorry, but these old men like Leonid Brezhnev led country to disaster. Communism is not dogma, and we live in real world. And leadership of USSR were stupid enough. Any small business was illegal. Government owned everything. There were nothing to eat because government decided what collective farms need to do. They needed to change that to prevent USSR destroying, also they needed to stop Jews persecution. they did not do that.


You're insistence on equaling USSR with Nazi German regarding the Jews is clearly provocative and does not corresponds to reality at all. Nazi Germans wanted to exterminate the Jewish race. As far as i can remember this was never the case with USSR, on the contrary.

I also don't know what you meant by saying "Remember Hitler party name was National Socialists Workers Party. Hitler was very popular in Germany. He provided jobs, and stops crisis, built roads and bridges". Are you trying to say that Hitler was socialist? I know that some dumb Americans like the Fox anchor Glenn Beck actually said that because of the party's name Hitler was socialist but i think that you are smarter than that, don't you?

Besides, you forgot to mention that Hitler left a complete ruined Germany behind him, occupied by foreign powers and total humiliated...
"If I could control Hollywood, I could control the world." -Joseph Stalin
[+-]
Soviet cogitations: 59
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 04 Nov 2009, 17:36
Pioneer
Post 13 Apr 2012, 22:22
Well it is common for an immigrant from the former USSR to still have perestroika and post-perestroika anti-Soviet propaganda stuck in his/her head...



estrinfima wrote:
In 1976 jews were banned from many Universities.

Which ones?


Quote:
nationalities were only in passports. In reality it should be
the same people, like in US there in no Germans of French people, but here are all Americans.

In the US it is ethnicity instead of nationality...


Quote:
There are no quotas for jews in USA.

The situation is different in the US. They have quotas in favor of minorities. So it can happen that a Jewish student (whose ethnicity is usually considered to be white) is denied because a student whose ethnicity is considered a minority has to take his spot.
Anyway, the percentage of college or university graduates among Jews was always much higher than the percentage for other nationalities in the USSR, and it was higher even than the percentage for Jews in the US and Israel.


Quote:
I do not know if this was pure anti semitism but I know there were some antisemitic people on soviet high level.

Yes you "know"...


Quote:
All difference between jews and non jews in USSR was chapter5 in Passport.

Everyone had their nationality in their passports, not only Jews.
Why does it even matter? People could figure out who you are without a passport.


Quote:
Jews did not know their religious, forgot language, know nothing about culture. That were Russian people with jewish origin.

Don't blame the USSR for that. It was just natural assimilation. Jews assimilate like any other ethnic group if they are not isolated and given equal rights and opportunities as citizens.


Quote:
why then soviet government established these quotas.
They better deleted Chapter 5 in passport and put there Soviet Citizen for all. Then who is having better knowledge could enter the University, not because he is Ukrainian Nationality. Here in USA everybody name soviet jews as Russians.
Then what was these quotas? in my opinion that was pure racism, like nazi cared who have how many jewish blood: half or quoter. Soviet government cared too, there were records.

The Soviet government did not care for Jewish blood like the nazis, you know that...
First of all it has to be established if these quotas really existed, to what extend, and what nationalities were affected. Then we can judge.
Soviet cogitations: 19
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 02 Apr 2012, 22:51
New Comrade (Say hi & be nice to me!)
Post 14 Apr 2012, 06:34
I have a question to all: anybody have experience living in USSR. Where are you from. I live in USA, state Minnesota.
I was born in Wester Belarus. graduated from Baltic State Technical University In Leningrad ( St Petersburg ) in 1982. This University was banned for jews, but I was just one to pass there. On one exam I was told that people like me always get F, but my knowledge is so good I got C.
Finally i got minimal points to be admitted. My GPA at this college was 3.82, but I was not allowed to continue my education. They sent me to former Stalingrad ( Volgograd ) where I worked at weapons of mass distraction plant. i remember i asked HR for job to service Transcontinental Rockets, and they asked what nationality Am I. Then i was rejected. I was allowed to work at Machine Tools repair job. Jews was not allowed to know secrets.
I worked there 3 years and then decided to move back in Belarus. Living conditions in Russia were much worse than in Belarus. You may not image this: empty stores, no meat, butter, nothing to eat. Even potato was a problem
I went to several companies in Belarus, and they asked for passport and looked for nationality. I was always rejected. Then I found company in stage of reconstruction. They did not care about nationality and I was hired. I was working there 10 years. I got relatives in USA and applied for Immigration in 1995. i got refugee status and moved to USA. What happened then you may read here

http://voices.yahoo.com/browser-hijacke ... tml?cat=15

I am in bad situation now in USA much worse than in USSR. Any suggestions?
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 564
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 29 Jun 2010, 16:09
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Komsomol
Post 14 Apr 2012, 18:01
Suggestions? You mean, advice for bettering your life situation? I dunno, move to a different country and maybe your unwanted status won't follow you? Question is, did you do what you did to give you the label "sex offender?" I would presume that you'd say no.
Партия всегда права.
Die Partei hat immer recht.
The Party is always right.
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 4465
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 30 Mar 2010, 01:20
Ideology: None
Forum Commissar
Post 15 Apr 2012, 02:26
There's a bit of an explanation of this fellow's story (if I understand correctly) here:
http://estrinyefim.newsvine.com/_news/2010/07/29/4779710-mitsubishi-electric-automation-abandons-employee

There is this incredible hysterical moral panic which seems to originate in the US over this sort of issue. Like the "war on drugs" the US has been able to export this world-view around the globe regardless of whether it is entirely sensible or appropriate - some types of exploitation of children are entirely consistent with US policies while they make some grand theatrical stand on others and claim the moral high ground.


estrinfima wrote:
I am in bad situation now in USA much worse than in USSR. Any suggestions?

I'm probably going to be in trouble for even suggesting such a thing, but I can't imagine that there are many other places which would be open to you under the given circumstances apart from somewhere like Israel.
Actually, I'm not even sure that this would be an option given how much influence the US exerts over them.
[+-]
Soviet cogitations: 59
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 04 Nov 2009, 17:36
Pioneer
Post 17 Apr 2012, 21:24
estrinfima wrote:
I have a question to all: anybody have experience living in USSR. Where are you from. I live in USA, state Minnesota.
I was born in Wester Belarus. graduated from Baltic State Technical University In Leningrad ( St Petersburg ) in 1982. This University was banned for jews, but I was just one to pass there. On one exam I was told that people like me always get F, but my knowledge is so good I got C.
Finally i got minimal points to be admitted. My GPA at this college was 3.82, but I was not allowed to continue my education. They sent me to former Stalingrad ( Volgograd ) where I worked at weapons of mass distraction plant. i remember i asked HR for job to service Transcontinental Rockets, and they asked what nationality Am I. Then i was rejected. I was allowed to work at Machine Tools repair job. Jews was not allowed to know secrets.
I worked there 3 years and then decided to move back in Belarus. Living conditions in Russia were much worse than in Belarus. You may not image this: empty stores, no meat, butter, nothing to eat. Even potato was a problem
I went to several companies in Belarus, and they asked for passport and looked for nationality. I was always rejected. Then I found company in stage of reconstruction. They did not care about nationality and I was hired. I was working there 10 years. I got relatives in USA and applied for Immigration in 1995. i got refugee status and moved to USA. What happened then you may read here

http://voices.yahoo.com/browser-hijacke ... tml?cat=15

I am in bad situation now in USA much worse than in USSR. Any suggestions?

What if you go back to Belarus?
Well if you wanted sympathy you should not have come in here making claims about the USSR, comparing the country to Nazi Germany, blaming your problems on Soviet anti-semitism...
You are not the only one here who was born in the former USSR, and you are not the only Jewish "refugee" from there, so don't speak for everyone.
Soviet cogitations: 19
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 02 Apr 2012, 22:51
New Comrade (Say hi & be nice to me!)
Post 18 Apr 2012, 05:44
Shigalyov wrote:
There's a bit of an explanation of this fellow's story (if I understand correctly) here:
http://estrinyefim.newsvine.com/_news/2010/07/29/4779710-mitsubishi-electric-automation-abandons-employee

There is this incredible hysterical moral panic which seems to originate in the US over this sort of issue. Like the "war on drugs" the US has been able to export this world-view around the globe regardless of whether it is entirely sensible or appropriate - some types of exploitation of children are entirely consistent with US policies while they make some grand theatrical stand on others and claim the moral high ground.


There is war on "sex offenders" in USA now. USA have a huge registry of sex offenders, about 800,000. Usually these people have all their information posted on the internet for everybody to see. Any minor violation with sex involved trigger registration, and USA government is very eager to get more people on sex offenders registry. With family members there are about 3 millions and these people are pariahs. many laws about sex offenders registry were written in Washington from Nazi Germany laws. These laws include total ban on any employment, residency restrictions, and many more.
American lawmakers are very creative. People in the World know nothing about that, and informing them may bring USA image down
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 4381
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Oct 2004, 22:04
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Resident Soviet
Post 18 Apr 2012, 05:58
Like YGB85, I would like to ask estrinfima whether you have considered returning to Belarus. It's not as bad there as in much of Russia, given that the country isn't facing the types of social and economic crises which allow demagogues to whip up anger against minorities. I'm sure with your electrical engineering experience you'd quickly find a job there (although you wouldn't be paid the same as you would at some US company).
"The thing about capitalism is that it sounds awful on paper and is horrendous in practice. Communism sounds wonderful on paper and when it was put into practice it was done pretty well for what they had to work with." -MiG
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 4465
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 30 Mar 2010, 01:20
Ideology: None
Forum Commissar
Post 18 Apr 2012, 09:17
estrinfima wrote:
People in the World know nothing about that, and informing them may bring USA image down
We don't need much convincing on SE ... we know they're dreadful.


The brilliance of their scheme is that by being labelled with this tag they are able to completely discredit anything you could ever say against them.
Soviet cogitations: 2407
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 01 Nov 2003, 13:17
Ideology: Other
Forum Commissar
Post 18 Apr 2012, 12:45
Quote:
Like YGB85, I would like to ask estrinfima whether you have considered returning to Belarus. It's not as bad there as in much of Russia, given that the country isn't facing the types of social and economic crises which allow demagogues to whip up anger against minorities. I'm sure with your electrical engineering experience you'd quickly find a job there (although you wouldn't be paid the same as you would at some US company).


Probably he is no longer a citizen there.
Soviet cogitations: 19
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 02 Apr 2012, 22:51
New Comrade (Say hi & be nice to me!)
Post 18 Apr 2012, 14:49
Quote:
Like YGB85, I would like to ask estrinfima whether you have considered returning to Belarus. It's not as bad there as in much of Russia, given that the country isn't facing the types of social and economic crises which allow demagogues to whip up anger against minorities. I'm sure with your electrical engineering experience you'd quickly find a job there (although you wouldn't be paid the same as you would at some US company).


Belarus is the last communist country in the Europe. There was no privatization, like in Russia. The problem I may have, they still have "propiska". You need a permit to live in most cities, stamp in passport. Most cities are closed for new people. You can not get job without propiska, this is illegal to live in city, even you can rent apartment. Police may come and check passport, charge you with "crime" of living without propiska.
In soviet times there were some companies in stage of reconstruction and they had some permits for propiskas from government. Most cities were closed.
Belarus and Russia never had sex offender registry and porn possession laws. They afraid abuse of power, just like Japan.
Only USA have such large sex offender registry with such draconian laws. Even most European countries do not have. Only UK have, but hidden from general public, and 4 times less on the same population. I do not know what the problem with USA. USA have 2.5 millions people in prison now, 30%
of them are sex offenders, also 800,000 sex offenders out of prisons. They spent huge money, about $100 a day on each prisoner. 65 millions US citizens have criminal records. In year 2005 USA had just 400,000 sex offenders. Registry is growing very fast. This is a new social experiment to control population.
I participate in this organization

www.reformsexoffenderlaws.org

I attended hearings in state congress many times.
Soviet cogitations: 19
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 02 Apr 2012, 22:51
New Comrade (Say hi & be nice to me!)
Post 18 Apr 2012, 14:55
You may read this article
'America's Corrupt Legal System Danger to Visitors, Travellers as Well as USA Residents'

http://estrinyefim.newsvine.com/_news/2 ... -residents
Soviet cogitations: 19
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 02 Apr 2012, 22:51
New Comrade (Say hi & be nice to me!)
Post 20 Jun 2012, 17:29
I found this interesting blog

"But the late 19th and early 20th centuries saw the development of mass societies. And of the ability to manipulate the ‘public opinion’ of those mass societies, through advertising (to sell the products of the Industrial Revolution) and through revolutionary agitprop (think of Lenin and the revolutionaries) and then through government propaganda (think of the Soviet and Fascist and Nazi governments, especially as channeled through the dark genius of Goebbels). "

http://senseoffenses.blogspot.com/2012_ ... chive.html
Soviet cogitations: 19
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 02 Apr 2012, 22:51
New Comrade (Say hi & be nice to me!)
Post 31 Jan 2016, 07:18
Here is article in washington Post 'The yellow star, the scarlet letter, and ‘International Megan’s Law’

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/vol ... egans-law/

And my comment:

When I was a Soviet citizen, and after 1991 citizen of Belarus, there was a line in my passport which identified me as a Jew.
This looked like: 5. Nationality: Jew.
Even all russian jews was not religious, because soviet state destroyed all Jewish religious institutions, closed jewish schools, destroyed all books on their language. The only thing they kept was Jew in passport, just like nazi Germany J.
Nazi Germany was not the only country known to add such a moniker to the passports of its citizens. There were USSR and Belarus. As you understand identifying somebody as a Jew was very harmful for that person, discrimination at any situation like getting job, education and so on. Even beating by angry idiots hating you just for being a Jew.

I remember my grandfather story from ww2. He had document identify him as a Jew, and he took passport of dead person without such identity. This way he was not killed by Germans nazi. All people with jew in their documents were killed by nazi who also were christians.

Here is article i wrote:

http://fimafimovich.blogspot.com/2014/1 ... s-and.html
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 4764
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 20 Jul 2007, 06:59
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Forum Commissar
Post 06 Feb 2016, 07:45
I thought that adding an ethnicity on your internal passport was something voluntary. That you chose to identify as Jewish.

I'm not saying that there wasn't discrimination or anything like that, but when you say "The only thing they kept was Jew in passport, just like nazi Germany" it would imply that it was a mandatory identification, and I think that after WWII that wasn't the case. I could be very mistaken, not being Soviet.
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