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Soviet cogitations: 4465
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 30 Mar 2010, 01:20
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Forum Commissar
Post 07 Feb 2012, 00:44
re: Mushrooms.

I'm pretty sure that Revelations, The Book of Ezekiel and the teachings (?) of Joan of Arc (I'm not sure if she's got her own book) are simply what modern medicine would call schizophrenic episodes.

Most of religious "Revelation" falls into this category actually.
Soviet cogitations: 10005
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 14 Jul 2008, 20:01
Ideology: Trotskyism
Philosophized
Post 07 Feb 2012, 01:55
I don't think Apostle John or Jeanne d'Arc suffered from schizophrenia. It's a lifelong disease that would certainly have rendered them incapable of the astonishing feats that they pulled off. It's just psychedelic drugs, trust me. Or delirants. The psychedelics are highly philosophical, so these have probably given us stuff like the Mosaic Law (I really think that I've read that Mount Sinai is full of shrooms and it would make so much sense) or the Qu'ran (it really reads like a fragging trip) - the far eastern religions are highly psychedelic as well, I remember one LSD trip that practically turned me into a Buddhist for a couple days.

In Europe, however, delirants were much more en vogue. Jeanne d'Arc would have been just one of many users of amanita muscaria - it's called "fly amanita" for a reason, because it makes you fly. Hildegard von Bingen was another amanita user, and she got lots of fame for her visions.
"Don't know why i'm still surprised with this shit anyway." - Loz
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 31 Dec 2011, 06:02
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Post 07 Feb 2012, 04:05
Quote:
Very important, yes, important as God, no.
Then what's God? Eveything? But we're the best? Oh HET!
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If there is only one God there is only one God. You see how ridiculous it is to contrast the monotheistic god with himself? There is no Muslim or Jewish God. There is God.
Ok, I'll make up a God. He likes reruns of the office and made earth "cause he felt like it". He also likes long walks on the beach and is good with children. Is this Alah?
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That's your eyes lying to you. Atoms intermingle, objects phase in and out of one another. If you get to the atomic scale you could never see the space between a poster and the wall.
Enough Jesse Ventura. I should ask my Muslim friends if walls and posters are the same thing.
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Very interesting you'd use mystical as a negative. But you'd do well to investigate quantum mechanics.
You'd also do well to back up your arguments.
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Not a manifestation but a creation. He created the matter the energy the concept. It's all Him.
Make up your mind! Are we just creations or are we literally part of him?
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I don't deal in facts or absolutes.
Clearly.
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God created man and free will so he must have created the ability to reject humanity.
He gave himself the power to reject himself. Right.
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This is tied up in your complete inability to understand God relationship to creation. He created everything and is that same infinite singularity. You can't have parallel infinites, you have the one and all infinity flows from it. Being a piece of infinity does not make you infinite, it does not expand you at all. You are static, God is an ever-flowing sea of static instances. Allah is the source of all material and immaterial and always will be.
Nope, I have an inability to believe in arguments that I don't see as well backed up. I can make a sandwich, but that sandwich is in no way a literal part of me. I can make artwork, and still, there's no physical bond between me and my artwork, only a mental one.
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What does perfect mean if there are no imperfect things? Or what is perfect about being exactly thesame as everything else?
So this God relies on comparisons? Oh wow, what a powerful God.
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Mabool is right though as Islam is easily the most progressive religion. Equality of man before Allah, requirements for justice, human-o-centric worldview, strict adherence to monotheism, etc.
Right. And executions, completely backwards countries, women with no rights and you can't eat pork or drink alcohol. Progressive!
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Because Christianity is so overwhelmingly stupid. Also
a) I know its theology pretty well
b) I grew up with it
c) To be anti-christian is to be anti-my parents which is clearly the psychological basis for my antitheism.

I should keep a tally of how many baseless remarks you can make in a single forum.
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Yes it is, if I want it that way.
Great. Call Glenny B if you're so interested in progressivism.
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Grudges are always emotional, Einstein. At least I'm honest about my emotions. Are you honest enough to admit that the idea of questioning your god causes you immense fear?
Am I hearing things? Emotions? What? I thought those were just these random reactions that shouldn't be taken seriously. Also, I used to be worried that God didn't exist, but upon further investigation, I have no doubts that God exists. I even tried to be an atheist and in the end I knew I was just kdding myself.
Quote:
lol no. I don't respect non-Western cultures at all, I even have trouble coming up with the modicum of tolerance I need to accept American culture. And when I say that I admire the Quran for the huge balls of steel that it needs to proclaim its own uniqueness in such a way, it doesn't mean that I respect any of the metaphysical claims it makes.
Cool. Because disrespecting other cultures is clearly Marxist. Those stupid Eastern Europeans/Arabs/Africans/Asians, their cultures are totally stupid! Bunch of idiots who don't think the same way I do! Morons!
Quote:
I'm pretty sure that Revelations, The Book of Ezekiel and the teachings (?) of Joan of Arc (I'm not sure if she's got her own book) are simply what modern medicine would call schizophrenic episodes.
Maybe. Or they're the word of God.
Soviet cogitations: 10005
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 14 Jul 2008, 20:01
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Philosophized
Post 07 Feb 2012, 04:24
Quote:
Make up your mind! Are we just creations or are we literally part of him?


Are your ideas your creations or are they "literally" part of you? You're so incapable of thinking out of the box it's disturbing. Forget everything I said about you being clever.

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I should keep a tally of how many baseless remarks you can make in a single forum.


Yes. Notify me when you make the first entry, I'd love some well-founded criticism.

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Emotions? What? I thought those were just these random reactions that shouldn't be taken seriously.


Are you insane? Emotions are the most important thing for anybody. I never, ever said that they shouldn't be taken seriously, and no, it is not materialist to disregard emotions. My subjectivity matters incredibly much to me, and - like everybody else's subjective experience of the world - it's incredibly - I'm tempted to say: mainly - emotional.

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Also, I used to be worried that God didn't exist


See, that's what I mean. What's worrying about this awesome reality?

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Because disrespecting other cultures is clearly Marxist.


Marxism has nothing to do with respect.

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Those stupid Eastern Europeans/Arabs/Africans/Asians, their cultures are totally stupid!


Yes, they are. Homophobia, sexism, racism, anti-semitism, patriarchy, religion...

There is no culture in the world that comes close to the awesomeness and progressiveness of developed imperialist culture (i.e. North America and Western Europe) especially the proletarian culture in its realm. You might be interested in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=107&t=51708

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Bunch of idiots who don't think the same way I do! Morons!


I'm not a racist, so no.

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Maybe. Or they're the word of God.


Yeah, because these are obviously completely equally probable possibilites.
Last edited by Mabool on 07 Feb 2012, 16:57, edited 1 time in total.
"Don't know why i'm still surprised with this shit anyway." - Loz
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Sep 2006, 22:05
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Post 07 Feb 2012, 06:32
Mabool wrote:
Mushrooms. Trust me.

lol fair enough.

Now to Dals. Glad to see you've brought the hostility back.
Das_ALoveStory wrote:
Then what's God? Eveything? But we're the best? Oh HET!

We're the best of creation. Creation is a part of God but he's far greater than creation alone.

Das_ALoveStory wrote:
Ok, I'll make up a God. He likes reruns of the office and made earth "cause he felt like it". He also likes long walks on the beach and is good with children. Is this Alah?

These are just parts. God is greater than your words.

Das_ALoveStory wrote:
Enough Jesse Ventura.

What?

Das_ALoveStory wrote:
I should ask my Muslim friends if walls and posters are the same thing.

You don't have to be Muslim to understand quantum mechanics.

Das_ALoveStory wrote:
Make up your mind! Are we just creations or are we literally part of him?

Okay let me put it like this: you are a part of creation correct? If so does that make you creation? Creation is a literal part of God.

Das_ALoveStory wrote:
Clearly.

Facts change and there are no absolutes except Allah's will.

Das_ALoveStory wrote:
He gave himself the power to reject himself. Right.

God doesn't have to give himself anything. I don't think God rejecting himself is a very good idea though.

Das_ALoveStory wrote:
Nope, I have an inability to believe in arguments that I don't see as well backed up.

Backed up with what? What religious argument has proof? Sounds more like you have no counter argument to anything I've said and now want to appeal to the reactionary sentiments of most mainstream theologians.

Das_ALoveStory wrote:
I can make a sandwich, but that sandwich is in no way a literal part of me.

You assembled items to construct a sandwich you did not create it. Big difference.

Das_ALoveStory wrote:
I can make artwork, and still, there's no physical bond between me and my artwork, only a mental one.

The concept is literally your mind (until you share it and it is recreated in the minds of others), the matter is God's not your's.

Das_ALoveStory wrote:
So this God relies on comparisons? Oh wow, what a powerful God.

No perfection requires comparison as it's a qualitative category.

Das_ALoveStory wrote:
Right. And executions, completely backwards countries, women with no rights and you can't eat pork or drink alcohol. Progressive!

Ignoring imperialism leaves people with a shitty worldview. Also alcohol is a detriment to humanity so that's still totally progressive.
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Soviet cogitations: 10005
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 14 Jul 2008, 20:01
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Philosophized
Post 07 Feb 2012, 17:06
Quote:
No perfection requires comparison as it's a qualitative category.


All categories require comparison (everything does), but don't you mean quantitative?

also: http://i.imgur.com/SUfx6.png
"Don't know why i'm still surprised with this shit anyway." - Loz
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Sep 2006, 22:05
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Post 07 Feb 2012, 21:30
It's really a bit of both. You need things of lesser quality to be perfect against and you need a lot of them to make perfection significiant.

Also lol'd.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 27 Apr 2007, 18:04
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Komsomol
Post 07 Feb 2012, 23:47
Just a small question Dagoth, what do you think of people who turn to God for hope, and because they're desperate?
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Post 08 Feb 2012, 00:02
I can't say I have much respect for fear-based faith. It's like hoping your parents don't find out you broke the vase in the living room, not because you feel bad about breaking the vase but because you don't want to get in trouble. That said I'm not that critical of people who find faith in crisis so long as they have the integrity to stick with it once that crisis has been averted. Desperate hope is more of a sad thing than anything.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 30 Mar 2010, 01:20
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Post 08 Feb 2012, 00:11
Mabool wrote:
I don't think Apostle John or Jeanne d'Arc suffered from schizophrenia. It's a lifelong disease that would certainly have rendered them incapable of the astonishing feats that they pulled off. It's just psychedelic drugs, trust me.

For some reason (i.e. given your special interest in psychedelic substances) I imagined that you were aware that conditions like schizophrenia have been known (not infrequently) to begin onset during teen years.

Are you just trolling?
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 14 Jul 2008, 20:01
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Post 08 Feb 2012, 01:41
I don't understand what you're talking about. Yes, schizophrenia begins during teen years and then lasts forever. That means Jeanne d'Arc would have been unable to lead an army if she suffered from schizophrenia.
"Don't know why i'm still surprised with this shit anyway." - Loz
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Post 09 Feb 2012, 00:15
Well she might have failed a modern medical test, but I wouldn't place too much significance on that... plus like all these sorts of things, people have good days and bad days.
Not all schizophrenics spend every day writing on the wall with their excrement.

And I can't imagine that you're suggesting that little Joanie was the only important historical character with a "mental" condition.
Soviet cogitations: 10005
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 14 Jul 2008, 20:01
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Post 09 Feb 2012, 01:32
Quote:
Not all schizophrenics spend every day writing on the wall with their excrement.


English is awesome.

And tbh I don't really give a shit if these people's psychoses had natural or pharmaceutical causes. I agree to disagree, whatever. You may well be right.
"Don't know why i'm still surprised with this shit anyway." - Loz
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 31 Dec 2011, 06:02
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Post 09 Feb 2012, 01:59
To Dagoth:
Quote:
We're the best of creation. Creation is a part of God but he's far greater than creation alone.
How do we know that creation is literally part of God?
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These are just parts. God is greater than your words.
Sure. But is he the same God as Odin? Shiva? Zeus? No, of course not.
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Okay let me put it like this: you are a part of creation correct? If so does that make you creation? Creation is a literal part of God.
What is creation? Creation isn't some kind of objectve property. God wouldn't say "Oh I feel like adding creation to myself". He'd say something along the lines of "I'm going to create something". Just because you create something, doesn't mean you're that thing. If that was true, then nothing has ever really been created.
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Facts change and there are no absolutes except Allah's will.
Is it absolutely true that there are no absolutes?
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God doesn't have to give himself anything. I don't think God rejecting himself is a very good idea though.
Well, large "portions" of him do so.
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Backed up with what? What religious argument has proof? Sounds more like you have no counter argument to anything I've said and now want to appeal to the reactionary sentiments of most mainstream theologians.
Counter arguments? I've countered nearly every point you've made. The thought of a rock being a physical part of God seems ridiculous. Also, are you a theologist?
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You assembled items to construct a sandwich you did not create it. Big difference.
So God can create a sandwhich and now the sandwhich is part of him?
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The concept is literally your mind (until you share it and it is recreated in the minds of others), the matter is God's not your's.
So none of our thoughts are our own? We haven't ever actually accomplished anything? We are just mindless drones of Alah's will?
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No perfection requires comparison as it's a qualitative category.
Look at your previous marks. I'm calling the Contradiction Cops.
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Ignoring imperialism leaves people with a shitty worldview. Also alcohol is a detriment to humanity so that's still totally progressive.
Beheadings are not the result of the "great satan" USA.
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Are your ideas your creations or are they "literally" part of you? You're so incapable of thinking out of the box it's disturbing. Forget everything I said about you being clever.
If you had read anything from the forum and bothered to make any inferences, you could tell that I was rebutting Dagoth's remarks. I do not believe that my thoughts are literally part of me. That's ridiculous. I'm saying that this pantheist notion that God is everything is ridiculous.
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Yes. Notify me when you make the first entry, I'd love some well-founded criticism.
You'd simply reply "Christianity is dumb. The church did bad stuff. The only logical people are atheists. I like progressivism. It sounds cool. Nihilism. Other cultures are evil. The only ok culture is 'Merica."
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Are you insane? Emotions are the most important thing for anybody. I never, ever said that they shouldn't be taken seriously, and no, it is not materialist to disregard emotions. My subjectivity matters incredibly much to me, and - like everybody else's subjective experience of the world - it's incredibly - I'm tempted to say: mainly - emotional.
Well, contradictions from that remark aside, most of your offensive statements are completely based upon needless emotion.
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See, that's what I mean. What's worrying about this awesome reality?
Nice clipping of my remark. FOX should hire you.
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Marxism has nothing to do with respect.
Did Marx hate the Russian culture? I bet he must have just had a boiling fury for the Chinese culture too. And every other culture besides so-called "developed" ones.
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Yes, they are. Homophobia, sexism, racism, anti-semitism, patriarchy, religion...There is no culture in the world that comes close to the awesomeness and progressiveness of developed imperialist culture (i.e. North America and Western Europe) especially the proletarian culture in its realm.
Firstly, there are so very few traces of prole culture here. In fact, I'd say that American culture is actually one of the very few absolutely degenerate cultures in the world.
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I'm not a racist, so no.
You may not think your race is superior, but to say you hate a culture is nearly on par. I mean really, is Russian dance just pure evil? Is folk music purely meant to hate on gays and women? Another baseless and completely misinformed argument.
Quote:
Yeah, because these are obviously completely equally probable possibilites.
You're right, it's extremely likely that God wrote it.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 12 Jun 2011, 15:14
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Post 10 Feb 2012, 19:22
If I were a panentheist, which I am not necessarily, I would make this simile. We are to creation what the finger is to the hand, and creation is to God, as the hand is to the body. It's sort of like what this Bible verse says.
Quote:
1 Corinthians 12: 12-20 ESV For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ. For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—Jews or Greeks, slaves, or free—and all were made to drink of one Spirit.
For the body does not consist of one member but of many. If the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body,” that would not make it any less a part of the body. 16 And if the ear should say, “Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body,” that would not make it any less a part of the body. If the whole body were an eye, where would be the sense of hearing? If the whole body were an ear, where would be the sense of smell? But as it is, God arranged the members in the body, each one of them, as he chose. If all were a single member, where would the body be? As it is, there are many parts, yet one body.
So in a sense we might be described as being essentially a part of the divine, yet also distinctly indivisual. But I'm more so a deist in general than a panendeist , in particular.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Sep 2006, 22:05
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Post 12 Feb 2012, 06:34
Das_ALoveStory wrote:
How do we know that creation is literally part of God?

What else did He make creation from when there was nothing but God before creation? I figure his thinking of us reconstituted matter (Adam created from mud) into the forms we see today through many "natural processes". Also I don't really buy that there was a time before creation, or more to the point there is no beginning to creation because time itself is a part of creation.

Das_ALoveStory wrote:
Sure. But is he the same God as Odin? Shiva? Zeus? No, of course not.

He's not Jesus either.


Das_ALoveStory wrote:
What is creation?

Existence.

Das_ALoveStory wrote:
Creation isn't some kind of objectve property.

Yes it is. How is it not?

Das_ALoveStory wrote:
God wouldn't say "Oh I feel like adding creation to myself".

No he made creation out of Himself. Also look back to my explanation of the impossibility of pre-creation.

Das_ALoveStory wrote:
He'd say something along the lines of "I'm going to create something". Just because you create something, doesn't mean you're that thing.

What arrogance! You claim to understand the motives of God and in the same breath equate your reconstruction of matter to creation.

Das_ALoveStory wrote:
If that was true, then nothing has ever really been created.

Why?

Das_ALoveStory wrote:
Is it absolutely true that there are no absolutes?

Yes. Infinity contains all contradictions. I figure Allah could oppose his own will so even His will isn't necessarily absolute. Except when it is.

Das_ALoveStory wrote:
Well, large "portions" of him do so.

Humanity in its totality, history and all, is infinitesimal compared to Allah. We in no way constitute a large "portion" by any stretch of the imagination.

Das_ALoveStory wrote:
I've countered nearly every point you've made.

Responding to me is not a counter-argument.

Das_ALoveStory wrote:
The thought of a rock being a physical part of God seems ridiculous.

Seems being the important term here. You've still yet to make a reasonable argument for why existence isn't a part of God.

Das_ALoveStory wrote:
Also, are you a theologist?

Of course not.

Das_ALoveStory wrote:
So none of our thoughts are our own?

Inasmuch as you are who you are all on your own. Society alone alters your thoughts extensively. That said Allah has bigger fish to fry than plant ideas in you head. Although he clearly isn't above that (prophecy).

Das_ALoveStory wrote:
We haven't ever actually accomplished anything?

Yeah that's why we've never been to the moon or have civilization.

Das_ALoveStory wrote:
We are just mindless drones of Alah's will?

Two words: free will.

Das_ALoveStory wrote:
Look at your previous marks. I'm calling the Contradiction Cops.

What contradiction?

Das_ALoveStory wrote:
Beheadings are not the result of the "great satan" USA.

Yes they are. America spent the past century gutting any anti-fundamentalist political movement in the middle east. Case in point: the Taliban.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 12 Jun 2011, 15:14
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Pioneer
Post 12 Feb 2012, 18:52
Quote:
Das_ALoveStory wrote:
God wouldn't say "Oh I feel like adding creation to myself".
Dagoth Ur wrote:
No he made creation out of Himself. Also look back to my explanation of the impossibility of pre-creation.
This is actually more so a charecteristic belief of the Sikh. I don't actually know just how many Muslims have a panentheistic conception of God, in relation to creation. Here is an article, written from an Islamic perspective, which seeks to refute panentheism as being contradictionary. http://www.islam-sikhism.info/theo/sifaat01.htm
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 31 Dec 2011, 06:02
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Post 14 Feb 2012, 01:19
Quote:
What else did He make creation from when there was nothing but God before creation? I figure his thinking of us reconstituted matter (Adam created from mud) into the forms we see today through many "natural processes". Also I don't really buy that there was a time before creation, or more to the point there is no beginning to creation because time itself is a part of creation.
"Nothing but God before creation" God makes creation, he does not equal it.
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He's not Jesus either.
Going to ignore that, but thank you for proving my point.
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Existence.
So is God existence?
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Yes it is. How is it not?
Just because God makes something doesn't mean that he's that thing.
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No he made creation out of Himself. Also look back to my explanation of the impossibility of pre-creation.
He made creation out of himself? So he's divided? He's not a singular, unified God but just millions of little peices? Then were do his emotions and everything else unique to him come from?
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What arrogance! You claim to understand the motives of God and in the same breath equate your reconstruction of matter to creation.
No, not arrogance. Common sense.
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Yes. Infinity contains all contradictions. I figure Allah could oppose his own will so even His will isn't necessarily absolute. Except when it is.
Is it absolutely true that he can oppose himself? Oh, and, I thought your Allah was perfect. Why would he oppose himself?
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Humanity in its totality, history and all, is infinitesimal compared to Allah. We in no way constitute a large "portion" by any stretch of the imagination.
But we're his greatest creation? And God is creation? Then God is only as great as us.
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Responding to me is not a counter-argument.
Responding with statements or questions that attack the point is very similar if not the same.
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Of course not.
I can tell.
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Inasmuch as you are who you are all on your own. Society alone alters your thoughts extensively. That said Allah has bigger fish to fry than plant ideas in you head. Although he clearly isn't above that (prophecy).
My point is, God is the driving force of thought?
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Yeah that's why we've never been to the moon or have civilization.
False, those would simply be God's accomplishments.
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Two words: free will.
A bunch of words: we can't if we are actually physical parts of God.
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What contradiction?
Pick almost any two of your previous statements and compare.
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Yes they are. America spent the past century gutting any anti-fundamentalist political movement in the middle east. Case in point: the Taliban.
Sure they did. Flawed sense of history aside, look at Saudi Arabia and tell me how progressive it is. Does America invade it and blah blah blah? No. Also, your Koran is littered with just as many weird, product-of-the-time things as our Bible is.
Quote:
This is actually more so a charecteristic belief of the Sikh. I don't actually know just how many Muslims have a panentheistic conception of God, in relation to creation. Here is an article, written from an Islamic perspective, which seeks to refute panentheism as being contradictionary. http://www.islam-sikhism.info/theo/sifaat01.htm
Thank you comrade.
Soviet cogitations: 10005
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 14 Jul 2008, 20:01
Ideology: Trotskyism
Philosophized
Post 16 Feb 2012, 03:20
So yesterday I stumbled upon a German translation of the Quran, and I read some more of it.

If a God existed, this the way he would express himself. The Quran's claim of being the word of God is a million times more believable than the claims of biblical inspiration. If we were to presuppose that a God exists and that we have to choose a religion, Islam would obviously be the only halfway reasonable choice. I really have to admit that I have almost never before read anything like the Quran. If it wasn't so old, I would suspect that Muhammad took huge quantities of acid to produce this. It's really remarkably good. Not like the Bible, which is really badly written.
"Don't know why i'm still surprised with this shit anyway." - Loz
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 31 Dec 2011, 06:02
Pioneer
Post 17 Feb 2012, 04:28
Mabool wrote:
So yesterday I stumbled upon a German translation of the Quran, and I read some more of it.

If a God existed, this the way he would express himself. The Quran's claim of being the word of God is a million times more believable than the claims of biblical inspiration. If we were to presuppose that a God exists and that we have to choose a religion, Islam would obviously be the only halfway reasonable choice. I really have to admit that I have almost never before read anything like the Quran. If it wasn't so old, I would suspect that Muhammad took huge quantities of acid to produce this. It's really remarkably good. Not like the Bible, which is really badly written.

Offensive-ignorant-ridiculous-baseless-argument #349850843.
I mean really, it's poorly written? Really? It's a literary masterpiece. It's taken as a book of truth by two billion people too. Islam also has a billion, yes, but that's a different story. Either way, I haven't actually seen you properly formulate any backed-up opinion, ever. It's actually really making me mad to read your responses. I've had better conversations over religion with seven year olds; in fact, every one of them I've talked to has backed-up their ideas, and their words contain leaps and bounds of more intellect.
Either way, thank you Dagoth, for explaining your pseudo-Islam. Thank you Mabool for nothing, because you literally didn't contribute anything at all worth listening to at all, ever. Also, have the fun of knowing in the back of your head that you'll just end up an apologetic Christian Conservative, like every other "rebellious nihilist" does.
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