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Trotsky - Freemason and Illuminati agent

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Soviet cogitations: 2693
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 01 Mar 2006, 08:59
Party Bureaucrat
Post 15 Oct 2006, 20:09
Quote:
Trotsky supported the workers to overthrow Stalinism.
And not saying your wrong, but can you provide a source in which Trotsky supported Nazism?


By calling for the overthrow of the Socialist state even as Hitler's army invaded the Soviet Union.


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Quote:
- Trotsky called Stalin a greater threat to the proletariat than Hitler.

Depending on what time it was, he was correct. Besides, for most of the 1930s, they were working together.


I don't understand. Who was correct? Who was working together?
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"To know a thing you must study it." --Dagoth Ur
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Soviet cogitations: 10737
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 21 Dec 2004, 23:53
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Philosophized
Post 15 Oct 2006, 20:12
Quote:
By calling for the overthrow of the Socialist state even as Hitler's army invaded the Soviet Union.


Can you provide a source for this (not saying your wrong)?

Quote:
I don't understand. Who was correct? Who was working together?


Stalin (in Trotskys opinion) was a more direct threat to the Russian workers during the 1930s than Hitler.

Germany and Russia worked together on military projects in the 1930s (ie shared technology). There common enemy was Great Britain and France.
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"By what standard of morality can the violence used by a slave to break his chains be considered the same as the violence of a slave master?" - Walter Rodney
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Soviet cogitations: 2693
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 01 Mar 2006, 08:59
Party Bureaucrat
Post 15 Oct 2006, 20:25
Quote:
Quote:
By calling for the overthrow of the Socialist state even as Hitler's army invaded the Soviet Union.

Can you provide a source for this (not saying your wrong


Just read the words of Trotsky himself!

Quote:
Stalin (in Trotskys opinion) was a more direct threat to the Russian workers during the 1930s than Hitler.


Just shows how crazy the Frag was... even without all this "illuminati" yada yada business.

Quote:
Germany and Russia worked together on military projects in the 1930s (ie shared technology). There common enemy was Great Britain and France.


This is almost certainly a selective recollection of the facts. They were all trading with each other. I highly doubt USSR was different than any other country; in other words, the exigencies of the state taking precedence over ideological pretensions.

It was Chamberlain and Daladier who were conspiring to bleed Russia dry by appeasing Hitler's territorial ambitions.

Besides, it is impossible that Hitler had a more special relationship with the USSR than the "Aryan nations" because:

-Britain and France were above Slavs according to the Nazis' eugenic criteria
-In Mein Kampf Hitler states Bolshevism was a Jewish plot to take over Germany. Actually this was official state policy.
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"To know a thing you must study it." --Dagoth Ur
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Soviet cogitations: 10737
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 21 Dec 2004, 23:53
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Philosophized
Post 16 Oct 2006, 00:06
Quote:
Just read the words of Trotsky himself!


Yes I know. I'm asking for what specific work(s).

Quote:
Just shows how crazy the Frag was... even without all this "illuminati" yada yada business.


I don't think anyone imagined that Germany would steam roll over Europe a decade later.

Quote:
This is almost certainly a selective recollection of the facts. They were all trading with each other. I highly doubt USSR was different than any other country; in other words, the exigencies of the state taking precedence over ideological pretensions.


Not positive but im rather sure that the Western Powers weren't trading with Russia (not so sure about Germany). Also military exercises that are done cooperatively are not just done with two countries that have a passive relationship.

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Besides, it is impossible that Hitler had a more special relationship with the USSR than the "Aryan nations" because:


It was more pragmatic on both sides actually. Britain and France were world powers. They imposed the harsh post WWI conditions on Germany. Russia was not a superpower, it was against the Western Powers, and it didn't impose the military restrictions on Germany. Therefor it is logical that Germany and Russia had a "more special relationship."
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"By what standard of morality can the violence used by a slave to break his chains be considered the same as the violence of a slave master?" - Walter Rodney
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Jun 2005, 23:39
Politburo
Post 16 Oct 2006, 01:03
Quote:
Just read the words of Trotsky himself!


Stop being an ass and give him the source.
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Soviet cogitations: 2693
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 01 Mar 2006, 08:59
Party Bureaucrat
Post 16 Oct 2006, 01:46
Quote:
I don't think anyone imagined that Germany would steam roll over Europe a decade later.


OK, first of all that would make it 1929, which I would hesitantly agree to, but previously you said "1930s", as in when hilter bacame chancellor in 1934, and yes, everybody did know that war was in the offing, cf. the Spanish Civil War, which was regarded as a "trial run" by both sides. Everyone knew the Blitzkreig was coming. Shit, this is the traditional Trotskyist critique of the USSR's role in the Ribbentrop-Molotov Pact!

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Russia was not a superpower,


I could quibble about this, but...OK.

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it was against the Western Powers,


It was certainly opposed to all capitalist countries while under the leadership of Stalin - of which Germany was one. Tsk tsk, we are being selective again


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and it didn't impose the military restrictions on Germany.


Uh, I think it was the indemnifications and loss of territory that was onerous to Germany's pride, not "military restrictions" per se. But I am not a military buff, so maybe Potemkin, or Roy or Carius can pipe in with regards to this.

Quote:
Therefor it is logical that Germany and Russia had a "more special relationship."


Nope. Does not follow. There is no casual relationship there. In fact, I think I have a stronger case with regards to the Nazis' longstanding claim that Bolshevism was a Jewish plot. Again, you underestimate the exigencies of the State.

Quote:
Quote:
Just read the words of Trotsky himself!

Yes I know. I'm asking for what specific work(s).


I'm pretty sure it is in polemical pamphlets which I cannot recall but also Permanent Revolution.
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"To know a thing you must study it." --Dagoth Ur
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Soviet cogitations: 238
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 12 Jun 2011, 15:14
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Pioneer
Post 19 Jul 2018, 23:16
Bourgeois Jobbyman wrote:
- Freemasonry was banned in the USSR for being subversive, terroristic and bourgeois. If I remember correctly, it was during Lenin's era.
- Trotsky was financed by a Freemason banker named Jacob Schiff to a tune of around 20 million US dollars.
- Trotsky called Stalin a greater threat to the proletariat than Hitler.
- Trotsky supported Ukranian nationalism and independance during the 1930s (the only time he supported nationalism was against the USSR!
), so the Nazis could be at the gates of the Soviet Union!
- Trotsky wanted to ride back to power as dictator with Nazi tanks.

This is why Stalin was completely justified in murdering this rotten scoundrel.

I will try to address these claims one by one . 1. While this is historically true , it is also true that a number of prominent Russians , such as for an example Maksim Kovalevsky . Also , incidentally , the current Grand Master of the Grand Lodge , Andrei Bogdanov , is also the Chairman of the Communist Party of Social Justice . Here is a history of Freemasonry in Russia , and its relationship to political developments https://www.freemasonry.bcy.ca/texts/russia/go_russia.html . 2. Here is the truth about Jacob Schiff's financing . https://www.timesofisrael.com/trotskys-day-out-how-a-visit-to-nyc-influenced-the-bolshevik-revolution/ . 3. Here is what Trotsky wrote as to his thoughts on Ukrainian nationalism https://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1939/07/ukraine.htm . 4. I am not sure whether or not Trotsky's Left Opposition colluded with Nazi Germany against the Soviet Union , under Stalin . The closest to this would be that of the Right Oppositionist Nils Flyg .
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