Soviet-Empire.com U.S.S.R. and communism historical discussion.
05 Oct 2018, 04:27
In the political terminology of the former Soviet Union, the socialist-leaning countries were the post-colonial Third World countries which the Soviet Union recognized as adhering to the ideas of socialism in the Marxist–Leninist understanding. As a result, these countries received significant economic and military support. In Soviet press, these states were also called "countries on the path of the construction of socialism" (Russian: страны, идущие по пути строительства социализма, translit. strany, idushchiye po puti stroitel'stva sotsializma) and countries on the path of the socialist development" (Russian: страны, стоящие на пути социалиcтического развития, translit. strany, stoyashchiye na puti sotsialicticheskogo razvitiya). All these terms meant to draw a distinction from the true socialist states (in Marxist–Leninist understanding).[
Does anyone know which non-marxist states were officially considered "countries of socialist orientation"
Does anyone know which non-marxist states were officially considered "countries of socialist orientation"
05 Oct 2018, 05:14
The article you're quoting from, seems to go into a lot of detail about it, although I'm not aware of any official list from the USSR itself if thats what you want. You could try the great soviet encyclopedia or progress publishers books for that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist ... _countries
I think this map is very useful, even better than the 1980 Cold War map, in showing the greatest extent of Soviet-aligned countries, and it seems like a great portion of humanity was on that road at onetime or another.
Looking at this map illustrates part of the reason I shifted from being a dogmatic anti-revisionist Maoist to more of a socialist unity, of the likes of Workers World or Line of March that called for unity in the socialist camp. Western scholars often look at the economic development of China since the 80s as either a total mystery or capitalism under a CP. When in fact the Chinese economy of the Deng and Jiang years was actually not so different from the more market-oriented economies of the Warsaw Pact like Hungary, Czechoslovakia and Poland, and in fact the initial PRC reforms was meant to be a middle ground between Yugoslavia and Hungary. Just on a much larger scale. So if you can imagine the PRC making the steady economic progress of the First Five Year plan period and Deng years, but as part of the unified socialist bloc of that map, the Cold War could have been won. I mean in hindsight the collapse of the USSR looks inevitable. But if you look at the 70s and early 80s, the Soviets won the Cold War in Africa and Asia, and the newest from was the USA's backyard of central america. So while its not as romantic as other strands and eras of socialism, the Brezhnevite bloc is the closest we came to Marxist-Leninist World Communism.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist ... _countries
I think this map is very useful, even better than the 1980 Cold War map, in showing the greatest extent of Soviet-aligned countries, and it seems like a great portion of humanity was on that road at onetime or another.
Looking at this map illustrates part of the reason I shifted from being a dogmatic anti-revisionist Maoist to more of a socialist unity, of the likes of Workers World or Line of March that called for unity in the socialist camp. Western scholars often look at the economic development of China since the 80s as either a total mystery or capitalism under a CP. When in fact the Chinese economy of the Deng and Jiang years was actually not so different from the more market-oriented economies of the Warsaw Pact like Hungary, Czechoslovakia and Poland, and in fact the initial PRC reforms was meant to be a middle ground between Yugoslavia and Hungary. Just on a much larger scale. So if you can imagine the PRC making the steady economic progress of the First Five Year plan period and Deng years, but as part of the unified socialist bloc of that map, the Cold War could have been won. I mean in hindsight the collapse of the USSR looks inevitable. But if you look at the 70s and early 80s, the Soviets won the Cold War in Africa and Asia, and the newest from was the USA's backyard of central america. So while its not as romantic as other strands and eras of socialism, the Brezhnevite bloc is the closest we came to Marxist-Leninist World Communism.
05 Oct 2018, 05:25
heiss93 wrote:The article you're quoting from, seems to go into a lot of detail about it, although I'm not aware of any official list from the USSR itself if thats what you want. You could try the great soviet encyclopedia or progress publishers books for that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist ... _countries
I think this map is very useful, even better than the 1980 Cold War map, in showing the greatest extent of Soviet-aligned countries, and it seems like a great portion of humanity was on that road at onetime or another.
Looking at this map illustrates part of the reason I shifted from being a dogmatic anti-revisionist Maoist to more of a socialist unity, of the likes of Workers World or Line of March that called for unity in the socialist camp. Western scholars often look at the economic development of China since the 80s as either a total mystery or capitalism under a CP. When in fact the Chinese economy of the Deng and Jiang years was actually not so different from the more market-oriented economies of the Warsaw Pact like Hungary, Czechoslovakia and Poland, and in fact the initial PRC reforms was meant to be a middle ground between Yugoslavia and Hungary. Just on a much larger scale. So if you can imagine the PRC making the steady economic progress of the First Five Year plan period and Deng years, but as part of the unified socialist bloc of that map, the Cold War could have been won. I mean in hindsight the collapse of the USSR looks inevitable. But if you look at the 70s and early 80s, the Soviets won the Cold War in Africa and Asia, and the newest from was the USA's backyard of central america. So while its not as romantic as other strands and eras of socialism, the Brezhnevite bloc is the closest we came to Marxist-Leninist World Communism.
yes i took my text from wiki to describe what i want to find, but i dont consider wiki reliable source on official info. Thats why i ask if anyone has any better source to provide, sth more official like the great soviet encyclopedia you mentioned
05 Oct 2018, 05:30
India for example wasnt considered socialist oriented from USSR and it is included in the map above
05 Oct 2018, 06:36
Well I found this
https://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary ... evelopment
"Countries that have proclaimed programs of noncapitalist development include the Democratic People’s Republic of Algeria, the Arab Republic of Egypt, the Republic of Guinea, the Republic of Iraq, the People’s Democratic Republic of Yemen, the People’s Republic of the Congo, the United Republic of Tanzania, the Syrian Arab Republic, the Somali Democratic Republic, and the Union of Burma. In these countries the political domination of foreign monopolies has been eliminated, and their economic domination is being undermined. Cooperation with the socialist states is expanding. The private sector is regulated and restricted, state and cooperative sectors of the economy have been established, and the conditions for their favorable development have been created. A struggle against the ideology of the exploiters is under way in the countries that have chosen the noncapitalist path. Other general democratic transformations have been introduced, laying the economic and social foundation for the transition to socialist construction and for improving the life of the people."
And the wikipedia article seems to have grouped together all self-proclaimed socialist states that were aligned in foreign policy with the USSR. Which is not a useless categorization, and quite useful for a geopolitical study from the Cold War standpoint. And I think is generally accurate in that sense. Even the cases I was unsure of, when I did more research seemed to fit. But you're right that it doesn't meet the Soviet definition of being on the road to any type of socialism. Like I was reading the GSE article on India, and while it notes its friendly relations with socialist countries, makes clear that the Congress Party is not aiming for real socialism.
There are some books I posted earlier that go into more detail about India specifically, and might go into more depth about their analysis of the "socialist" tendencies in India.
To be fair the GSE article was written in a specific date, and so might not be a complete listing, many of the countries listed by the wiki seems as socialist as Egypt or Burma, so its quite possible that in some Pravda articles they were described as socialist or non-capitalist oriented. Its also interesting to me that the GSE puts together self-proclaimed M-L regimes and completely non-marxian regimes together in the same category.
https://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary ... evelopment
"Countries that have proclaimed programs of noncapitalist development include the Democratic People’s Republic of Algeria, the Arab Republic of Egypt, the Republic of Guinea, the Republic of Iraq, the People’s Democratic Republic of Yemen, the People’s Republic of the Congo, the United Republic of Tanzania, the Syrian Arab Republic, the Somali Democratic Republic, and the Union of Burma. In these countries the political domination of foreign monopolies has been eliminated, and their economic domination is being undermined. Cooperation with the socialist states is expanding. The private sector is regulated and restricted, state and cooperative sectors of the economy have been established, and the conditions for their favorable development have been created. A struggle against the ideology of the exploiters is under way in the countries that have chosen the noncapitalist path. Other general democratic transformations have been introduced, laying the economic and social foundation for the transition to socialist construction and for improving the life of the people."
And the wikipedia article seems to have grouped together all self-proclaimed socialist states that were aligned in foreign policy with the USSR. Which is not a useless categorization, and quite useful for a geopolitical study from the Cold War standpoint. And I think is generally accurate in that sense. Even the cases I was unsure of, when I did more research seemed to fit. But you're right that it doesn't meet the Soviet definition of being on the road to any type of socialism. Like I was reading the GSE article on India, and while it notes its friendly relations with socialist countries, makes clear that the Congress Party is not aiming for real socialism.
There are some books I posted earlier that go into more detail about India specifically, and might go into more depth about their analysis of the "socialist" tendencies in India.
To be fair the GSE article was written in a specific date, and so might not be a complete listing, many of the countries listed by the wiki seems as socialist as Egypt or Burma, so its quite possible that in some Pravda articles they were described as socialist or non-capitalist oriented. Its also interesting to me that the GSE puts together self-proclaimed M-L regimes and completely non-marxian regimes together in the same category.