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02 Oct 2006, 13:53
If it will interesting You, I'll still making this topic
This topis is about normal (?) life in PRL.
In essence it wasn't normal life I want describe here many nonsenses and characteristically behaviurs/items which were in socialist Polish.
1. Milk Bars (Bary Mleczne) - similar to Fast Food bars in Western Europe and USA, but with two differences:
*Milk Bars was very cheap (for every comrade)
*there were national dishes (mainly milk and mealy meals - dumplings, kasha etc)
2. Censoreship (Cenzura) - press, films (from Western - for example James Bond - it was "anti-soviet") and publications. Forthermore censoreshipping was pornography films and films with violence.
In WarState (1982-89) censoreshipping was telephone callings!
3. Social Acts (Czyny społeczne) - deeds which was making by normal people - normally unnecessary and pointless - cleaning etc. Big enterprise was building ground train in Chorzow.
If You want more, say
This topis is about normal (?) life in PRL.
In essence it wasn't normal life I want describe here many nonsenses and characteristically behaviurs/items which were in socialist Polish.
1. Milk Bars (Bary Mleczne) - similar to Fast Food bars in Western Europe and USA, but with two differences:
*Milk Bars was very cheap (for every comrade)
*there were national dishes (mainly milk and mealy meals - dumplings, kasha etc)
2. Censoreship (Cenzura) - press, films (from Western - for example James Bond - it was "anti-soviet") and publications. Forthermore censoreshipping was pornography films and films with violence.
In WarState (1982-89) censoreshipping was telephone callings!
3. Social Acts (Czyny społeczne) - deeds which was making by normal people - normally unnecessary and pointless - cleaning etc. Big enterprise was building ground train in Chorzow.
If You want more, say
02 Oct 2006, 16:52
Awesome! There's very little I know about socialist Poland from a socialist perspective.
Any information you provide is extremely valuable to me, and I'm sure to other comrades on this site.
Some questions:
1. What size apartments did people have in big cities?
2. How was material life prior to the 1980s crises? -Specifically: Variety of food? Quality of consumer goods (ie shoes, clothing, televisions)? Etc. Did party members have some preferential treatment here?
3. Attitude of common Pole prior to 1980s crises to socialism? (I find that a lot of people turned hostile to the USSR only when the state stopped providing the goods it promised to citizens -was this the same in Poland?)
4. A personal question if I may: Why are you a supporter of PRL (if you are) when so many Poles seem to be anti-communist, anti-Russian, etc?
Replies to any of these questions would be dearly appreciated.
Any information you provide is extremely valuable to me, and I'm sure to other comrades on this site.
Some questions:
1. What size apartments did people have in big cities?
2. How was material life prior to the 1980s crises? -Specifically: Variety of food? Quality of consumer goods (ie shoes, clothing, televisions)? Etc. Did party members have some preferential treatment here?
3. Attitude of common Pole prior to 1980s crises to socialism? (I find that a lot of people turned hostile to the USSR only when the state stopped providing the goods it promised to citizens -was this the same in Poland?)
4. A personal question if I may: Why are you a supporter of PRL (if you are) when so many Poles seem to be anti-communist, anti-Russian, etc?
Replies to any of these questions would be dearly appreciated.
02 Oct 2006, 16:54
Really?
Really: It was real dishonour of soviet authority.
In the name of "national ibuisness" power was keeping citzens under surveillance and inspecting all letters, calls and normal conversations - SB* agents were allwhere!
*Sluzba Bezpieczenstwa - Security Service, institution which were inspectioning people and informing authority about all mans.
Really: It was real dishonour of soviet authority.
In the name of "national ibuisness" power was keeping citzens under surveillance and inspecting all letters, calls and normal conversations - SB* agents were allwhere!
*Sluzba Bezpieczenstwa - Security Service, institution which were inspectioning people and informing authority about all mans.
02 Oct 2006, 17:05
@soviet78 - sorry I wasn't response in previous post, becouse it didn't exist at that time.
1. Depending on the family's members, profession (teacher had additional room for preparation for lessons) and... membership in socialistically party - members had bigger and better flats! normally: 80m2.
2. Food - poor. In shops was empitiness - all goods was forced exporting to USSR! It relate all items - food, television etc. For buying goods people had special cards - http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grafika:Kartka_na_mleko.jpg
it is card for milk.
Party members recived special cards.
Rest of responses soon
1. Depending on the family's members, profession (teacher had additional room for preparation for lessons) and... membership in socialistically party - members had bigger and better flats! normally: 80m2.
2. Food - poor. In shops was empitiness - all goods was forced exporting to USSR! It relate all items - food, television etc. For buying goods people had special cards - http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grafika:Kartka_na_mleko.jpg
it is card for milk.
Party members recived special cards.
Rest of responses soon
Last edited by sgsman on 03 Oct 2006, 13:14, edited 1 time in total.
02 Oct 2006, 20:10
Well, that's strange. When my grandfather went to Poland during the 70's and 80's, he said that ususally brought back lots of goods that they didn't have in the USSR. Speaking of censorship, my dad saw Rambo, a pretty violent film in the USSR on video back in 1983, dubbed. Though I don't know its origins.
02 Oct 2006, 23:02
So with things that bad you still support socialism and the PZPR? Do you blame the problems more on the Soviet Union than the party in Poland?
03 Oct 2006, 13:23
...end of post.
3. part of polish people allways hate soviets, and in PRL wasn't goods. what soviets gave us? nothing - only terror and poverty.
4. I'm not supporter - I'm enemy - but I think I should show people how was in this years and I feel nostalgia to this time.
@Kirov:
To 1978-9 in shops were goods, but after it communists introduced WarState. At that time soviets introduced goods cards and shops were empty - look:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1e/Towary.jpeg
It's butcher's shop.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c0/Kolejka.jpeg
it is queue for toilet-paper (for all goods were that queues)
@Whitten:
Unfortunately, nothing was good in PRL.
I think problems make indirectly Soviet Union - demands for meat, sugar etc... but PZPR wasn't without guilty.
3. part of polish people allways hate soviets, and in PRL wasn't goods. what soviets gave us? nothing - only terror and poverty.
4. I'm not supporter - I'm enemy - but I think I should show people how was in this years and I feel nostalgia to this time.
@Kirov:
To 1978-9 in shops were goods, but after it communists introduced WarState. At that time soviets introduced goods cards and shops were empty - look:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1e/Towary.jpeg
It's butcher's shop.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c0/Kolejka.jpeg
it is queue for toilet-paper (for all goods were that queues)
@Whitten:
Unfortunately, nothing was good in PRL.
I think problems make indirectly Soviet Union - demands for meat, sugar etc... but PZPR wasn't without guilty.
03 Oct 2006, 14:33
I am guessing there was a huge difference before and after/during Martial Law. Kind of like how the USSR got fu*ked up after Perestroika.
03 Oct 2006, 20:50
Why Lada 07 in your sig for nostalgia then? I thought that the Polish National Car was the Fiat 126. And what's with milk? Was it the Polish overabundance equivalent of birch juice in the USSR?
03 Oct 2006, 22:25
Myself:
Wow, scratch that.
Quote:Awesome! There's very little I know about socialist Poland from a socialist perspective.
Wow, scratch that.
03 Oct 2006, 22:55
Is there such a thing as birch beer floats, or am I just making it up? Sounds like the kind of thing you would get at one of those milk bars.
By the way, I do find it interestingly peculiar that you dislike the PRL and even aspects of mundane life in the PRL, and yet are nostalgic about it at the same time.
By the way, I do find it interestingly peculiar that you dislike the PRL and even aspects of mundane life in the PRL, and yet are nostalgic about it at the same time.
04 Oct 2006, 12:48
@Kirov:
hm, this problem is complex - on my holidays with friends I learned interesting song about Lada. In our centre we find this car and.. that's all
@Marshal Konev:
about nostalgy - it's real atrange - but really I don't like that times, but I'm tearfully reminisce about PRL
hm, this problem is complex - on my holidays with friends I learned interesting song about Lada. In our centre we find this car and.. that's all
@Marshal Konev:
about nostalgy - it's real atrange - but really I don't like that times, but I'm tearfully reminisce about PRL
04 Oct 2006, 21:45
By the way, how big were Indian(Bollywood) movies in Poland? I know that quite a few of them were popular in the USSR.
06 Oct 2006, 18:25
I'm sorry for that guy (from the age and preferences propably supporter of liberal Civic Platform). There is a lot of stuff that isn't true here.
that's an idiotic interpretation. For example in the Social Act to celebrate 1000 years of Polish country, the state, the people and army builded 1000 new schools. Yes pretty pointless.
That's a shamefull lie. There were around 3 milions of members of Polish United Workers Party, only few (for example from the Executive Commitee) were having bigger houses.
Hm, in the 80 there was a crisis of the distributing goods in the shops, there were few reasons:
- demands of Solidarity of for putting more money in the consumption and increasing pays, that wasn't good in that situation cause we increased the salaries but we make money less valuable.
-Crisis of the economy
That's a shit about all goods from USSR, there were products from the East Germany and all states from eastern bloc. What more, the Edward Gierek rule introduced american and other goods into Poland, the most popular was Lewis jeans and coca-cola:D
About these products, we had some problems with trade with USSR, cause polish coal was sold there very cheaply, but we as well had possibilities to buy cheap gas, oil, iron etc.
Why many products of everyday use was from USSR? Many simple plastic products, or more sopihisticated ones, are now cheaply produced in China, then they were produced in USSR. I don't see the point why those things were worst from Chinese and other? I'm ussing still hower from USSR, I got a lot of papers from the PRL (esspecialy thirst magazines about computing) and really a lot of books, from the socialist book only few books from UK, that I got in London from british comerades and Lew Trotsky book "Revolution Betrayed" was that I had and been printed after 89 and I've got around 30 of PRL, great books about communist movement, marxism. The books from the 70-80 were the best cause the ones from 50 and early 60 were bit falsicated and writen with were heavy language (for example: right wing nationalist antiworking class renegats from reformist Polish Socialist Party- that's a true sentence from book from 50).
Again a few of them.
That's away that obiective historians from the right and govermental trusts are trying to show.
Yeah drive it sometimes. Problem is that they are out of production now. I think that they would be grat after changing an engine some other stuff- in the times of cars like SMART. The anticommies were laughing at FIAT 126 p because of it's size, unfortunately they didn't say nothing after introduction of SMART and other 'city cars'.
That's enough for one time, I think.
Why I didn't like in PRL was that political police and censorship, that often "biten" marxists as well.
Quote:3. Social Acts (Czyny społeczne) - deeds which was making by normal people - normally unnecessary and pointless - cleaning etc. Big enterprise was building ground train in Chorzow.
that's an idiotic interpretation. For example in the Social Act to celebrate 1000 years of Polish country, the state, the people and army builded 1000 new schools. Yes pretty pointless.
Quote:membership in socialistically party - members had bigger and better flats! normally: 80m2.
That's a shamefull lie. There were around 3 milions of members of Polish United Workers Party, only few (for example from the Executive Commitee) were having bigger houses.
Quote:Food - poor. In shops was empitiness - all goods was forced exporting to USSR! It relate all items - food, television etc. For buying goods people had special cards
Hm, in the 80 there was a crisis of the distributing goods in the shops, there were few reasons:
- demands of Solidarity of for putting more money in the consumption and increasing pays, that wasn't good in that situation cause we increased the salaries but we make money less valuable.
-Crisis of the economy
That's a shit about all goods from USSR, there were products from the East Germany and all states from eastern bloc. What more, the Edward Gierek rule introduced american and other goods into Poland, the most popular was Lewis jeans and coca-cola:D
About these products, we had some problems with trade with USSR, cause polish coal was sold there very cheaply, but we as well had possibilities to buy cheap gas, oil, iron etc.
Why many products of everyday use was from USSR? Many simple plastic products, or more sopihisticated ones, are now cheaply produced in China, then they were produced in USSR. I don't see the point why those things were worst from Chinese and other? I'm ussing still hower from USSR, I got a lot of papers from the PRL (esspecialy thirst magazines about computing) and really a lot of books, from the socialist book only few books from UK, that I got in London from british comerades and Lew Trotsky book "Revolution Betrayed" was that I had and been printed after 89 and I've got around 30 of PRL, great books about communist movement, marxism. The books from the 70-80 were the best cause the ones from 50 and early 60 were bit falsicated and writen with were heavy language (for example: right wing nationalist antiworking class renegats from reformist Polish Socialist Party- that's a true sentence from book from 50).
Quote:Party members recived special cards.
Again a few of them.
Quote:Unfortunately, nothing was good in PRL.
That's away that obiective historians from the right and govermental trusts are trying to show.
Quote:was the Fiat 126
Yeah drive it sometimes. Problem is that they are out of production now. I think that they would be grat after changing an engine some other stuff- in the times of cars like SMART. The anticommies were laughing at FIAT 126 p because of it's size, unfortunately they didn't say nothing after introduction of SMART and other 'city cars'.
That's enough for one time, I think.
Why I didn't like in PRL was that political police and censorship, that often "biten" marxists as well.
07 Oct 2006, 11:28
Quote:I'm sorry for that guy (from the age and preferences propably supporter of liberal Civic Platform). There is a lot of stuff that isn't true here.
Lout, simply lout! Civic Platform is party of thiefs.
Quote:that's an idiotic interpretation. For example in the Social Act to celebrate 1000 years of Polish country, the state, the people and army builded 1000 new schools. Yes pretty pointless.
Probably it's only good example. BTW in schools "teachers" was learning soviet propaganda!
Quote:That's a shamefull lie. There were around 3 milions of members of Polish United Workers Party, only few (for example from the Executive Commitee) were having bigger houses.
Not only houses. For example: authority didn't give fiat126p for my friend, but old beetle. Why? Becouse he wasn't in party!
Quote:-Crisis of the economy
Haha. LOL. Why? Becouse USSR forced Poland to giv them uor food (meat, sugar and other goods). It is reason!
Quote:What more, the Edward Gierek rule introduced american and other goods into Poland, the most popular was Lewis jeans and coca-cola:D
In Pevex-shops for dolars for party-members.
Quote:Yeah drive it sometimes.
Now we see - you was in PZPR! Thief!
07 Oct 2006, 20:10
Quote:Haha. LOL. Why? Becouse USSR forced Poland to giv them uor food (meat, sugar and other goods). It is reason!
I thought it had something to do with Edward Gierek's massive borrowing from the United States and West Germany -which, when the 1970s oil crisis hit, forced Poland to pay more and more for the goods purchased, sent interest rates flying through the roof, and forced the country to export more and more of its products, while raising prices at home.
I don't think it's fair to blame the Soviet Union for accepting the Poles products in exchange for money to repay some of the loans to the West, although perhaps they should have provided Gierek with loans instead of allowing him to seek 'help' from the West.
maciek1905, thank you for pointing out some of the half truthes and complete falsities posted by sgsman. To recognize that a regime isn't perfect is understandable, but to go on claiming that 'not a single good thing existed' etc is just unbelievable and unrealistic and not a good way to get your point across.
08 Oct 2006, 09:36
Quote:In Pevex-shops for dolars for party-members.
Have ya lived in PRL? Pevex shops were for all people with western currency. There were few shops for higher members of executive Commitee, where regular and even leaders of local structures of Party didn't have entrance. Remind in diaries of Jaruzelsky and Urban.
Quote:BTW in schools "teachers" was learning soviet propaganda!
yeah so kick the school of and live in a forest. What kind of propaganda? That stalin didn't attack II Republic of Poland together with Hitler? In last period of PRL it was taught ofcourse.
Quote:Now we see - you was in PZPR! Thief!
Just piss of. Haven't been in PZPr never, just have been in the socialist youth and now in cp, but not ya bussiness where I have been and why.
Quote:I thought it had something to do with Edward Gierek's massive borrowing from the United States and West Germany -which, when the 1970s oil crisis hit, forced Poland to pay more and more for the goods purchased, sent interest rates flying through the roof, and forced the country to export more and more of its products, while raising prices at home.
I won't blame Gierek too much, I just think that the crisis began because of an economical crisis in the eastern bloc and because of increasing pay after solidarity stirikes and ofcourse a bit taking away not ours money for consumption in Gierek times.
10 Oct 2006, 17:58
Quote:I won't blame Gierek too much, I just think that the crisis began because of an economical crisis in the eastern bloc and because of increasing pay after solidarity stirikes and ofcourse a bit taking away not ours money for consumption in Gierek times.
You're right about Gierek.
I think however that OPEC's petro dollars and Western banks floating interest rates caused a lot of the problem (the same thing happened all over South America at the same time -debt crisis). The country ended up having to pay back huge interest. A similar problem was created in Romania at the same time I believe.
A couple things I don't understand though:
1. If the Soviet Union allegedly controlled Poland's politics to such a high degree, how did they allow for them to borrow so heavily from the West in the first place?
2. When the crisis hit, why did the Soviet Union not do more to help Poland (ie give economic credits freely) seeing how important Poland was to the Eastern Bloc, instead of just accepting for credit Poland's economic goods that deprived Poles at home and thus created instability?