Carius wrote:The Soviet Pacific Fleet didn't have naval forces needed for an invasion of Japan.
Quote:yes. you don't talk to fascists, you kill fascists.
Quote:It wasn't like America was no better than Japan
Quote:They were all to happy to support Franco, Kaing Kai-shek, Suharto, etc.
Quote:Japan committed genocide against the Chinese but just like in Europe this had nothing to do with American involvement.
Quote:Japan's racism was no different from what was being pursued domestically in America against negroes and amerindians.
Loz wrote:Yes and they fought Mussolini?
Loz wrote:Post-WW2 is a completely different story
Loz wrote:Besides, Mao and Chaing were in a united front FFS.
Loz wrote:America actually helped the Chinese a lot with supplies and other material.
Loz wrote:Yes, i'm sure Black neighbourhoods or Indian Reservates were being destroyed a la Nanjing 1937 or bombarded with plague-fleas (see Unit 731) in the 40s.
Quote:Only because they were in the Nazi camp.
Quote:No it's the exact same story just with different propaganda.
Quote:A united front wherein Chiang attacked communists as much as the Japanese.
Quote:You're claiming they helped the chinese for any reason other than it hurt Japan?
Quote:With Indians we'd already done most of the killing by WW2 so at that point we were just engaged in destroying their culture, languages, and taking their children away from them. And we were just lynching negroes right and left for quietly at our white womens. But no loz you're right this is insignificant bullshit incomparable to the genocides that were based on OUR tactics. Get your head out of your ass and stop insulting the victims of American racism.
Loz wrote:I don't see how it is.
Loz wrote:Still, it had a purpose for some time.
Loz wrote:The democratic world obviously didn't want to see a fascist China.
Loz wrote:You're comparing more-less random acts of lynching to mass and planned extreminations and torture that killed millions of Chinese civilians?
Quote:. I'm not playing down Chinese pain but fighting against your bullshit belittling of the intense racist policies of the US.
Quote:Comparing the cases, a terrorized people who are still murdered for their race today versus a people who lost 10% of its population and is now a superpower that easily overshadows its would-be conquerors, it becomes clear who the greater criminal is
Quote:You're being emotional loz, not scientific.
loz wrote:Eh? What does this have to do with anything? The Jews lost a good 30% of their own in WW2 and yet Israel managed to become a regional superpower in the Middle East...
loz wrote:Yeah, i'm being emotional and not scientific.
loz wrote:.. and you claim that i'm downplaying the suffering of Blacks in the US because i don't think that 4000 lynchings were somehow "more horrible" than a genocide of 15 million. Stay classy.
Quote:Yes but Israel didn't build that, the West bought it.
Quote:Jews still clearly carry intense scars from the holocaust although clearly not as bad as the scars on Amerindians and American blacks.
Quote:When the Chinese are just a scattered, history-less, people whose only homes are surrounded by predatory Japanese businessmen we'll talk about a comparison to the Amerindian genocide.
Quote:Like how eastern European victims of the holocaust aren't as muchl victims because more Jews died.
Quote:But by all means react away, instead of realize that this argument started over your downplaying of American racism in the first place.
Loz wrote:Nope. Israel got very little aid in 1948, and not from the West but from the East. Israel didn't get that cozy with the US until after 1967.
Loz wrote:And how do you know this, pray tell?
Loz wrote:How far back do you want to go? Most European nations were created by what today can be called "genocide", centuries ago.
What's your point?
Loz wrote:False. 6 million Jews died in the Holocaust while the USSR alone (not to mention Poland and so on...) lost at least 10 million civilians.
Loz wrote:If i'm "downplaying" American racism by refusing to agree that 4000 lynchings were "more horrible" than what the Japanese did in China, then so be it.
Quote:The US was cozying up to Israel all throughout the 50's just like every other strategically located nation even though they were suspicisous of the kibbutz and other socialist tendencies.
Quote:Ah so it's the Jews who are the lesser victims then?
Quote:No you were downplaying American racism by claiming they had any moral superiority in WW2 or that our interests were anything other than out-and-out imperialism.
Loz wrote:The Arab states got more aid and better hardware from the USSR.
Loz wrote:No,i didn't say that. I just refuted your false claim about the number of victims. The Jews obviously lost more in relative population size.
Loz wrote:Yeah they had moral superiority. The Allies fought together against fascism which was the biggest evil.
Quote:They didn't lose because of poor technology or lack of funds but because they cut deals with Israel that shit all over the Palestinians. Egypt and Syria in particular.
Quote:Ah so now relativity comes into body counts.
Quote:The only side in WW2 with any moral superiority was the USSR.
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