Soviet-Empire.com U.S.S.R. and communism historical discussion.
12 Sep 2019, 19:18
I was hoping to get some insight on the matter, especially from any comrades living in China. So these pro-western uprisings continue to pop up with the full backing of western diplomats on the ground, although the same can't seem to be said the other way round as I have yet to have seen Russian or Chinese officials liaising with say the yellow vest protesters. The Chinese government seems to have been quite restrained thus far, but all of this naturally brings back memories of Tiananmen Square.
The reason I bring up the comparison is the timing. Tiananmen took place when a wave of revolutions swept across the eastern bloc countries, naturally spreading throughout the rest of the socialist world with the support of the west. Now we're sort of seeing the same thing after all the western sponsored colour revolutions that have been taking place recently. This is why I tend to have doubts about the legitimacy of the demands of these protesters, which at first glance don't seem to merit such a reaction.
Opinions comrades? What's the dealio?
The reason I bring up the comparison is the timing. Tiananmen took place when a wave of revolutions swept across the eastern bloc countries, naturally spreading throughout the rest of the socialist world with the support of the west. Now we're sort of seeing the same thing after all the western sponsored colour revolutions that have been taking place recently. This is why I tend to have doubts about the legitimacy of the demands of these protesters, which at first glance don't seem to merit such a reaction.
Opinions comrades? What's the dealio?
13 Sep 2019, 01:55
Tiananmen square protests were fueled by specifically Chinese grievances after the Deng Xiaoping, namely stripping away of social benefits from state owned enterprises employees (China had a similar system to the USSR, where SOEs provided housing, medical care, etc, but unlike the USSR had no universal guarantees from municipal governments). The big motivation for students was that they saw that after graduation they would not have this kind of employment, meanwhile people connected to the Party on regional and national levels were doing very well, as corruption grew and the government turned a blind eye to Party officials becoming businessmen. So a combination of corruption, growing inequality and lack of good jobs with social guarantees made people see injustice and protest it.
Hong Kong is very different as it was a British colony and only got "democracy" as part of its transition to becoming part of China. Today it is wealthier than any other part of China, but the economy has reached a standstill and there is no affordable housing due to speculation and status as a financial center, so people can't migrate to China as they would be worse off and can't stay because their lives suck and will not improve. Obviously they blame China for this, while China needs Hong Kong as that's where they stash much of their money or funnel it through to investments abroad, especially ill gotten gains from corruption.
I don't think Western interference played much of a role in either, except as propaganda and perhaps advisors on tactics for the latter. Without the social basis the Hong Kong protests are about nothing, and as they lost the social content and became explicitly shit like putting the colonial flag up, they also stopped being like 1/3 of the city marching and just became violence, racism against mainland Chinese, etc, which we have gotten used to seeing from the nativists in past protests. There are also legitimate social grievances though, as life there seems pretty awful even if you are middle class and not rich.
Hong Kong is very different as it was a British colony and only got "democracy" as part of its transition to becoming part of China. Today it is wealthier than any other part of China, but the economy has reached a standstill and there is no affordable housing due to speculation and status as a financial center, so people can't migrate to China as they would be worse off and can't stay because their lives suck and will not improve. Obviously they blame China for this, while China needs Hong Kong as that's where they stash much of their money or funnel it through to investments abroad, especially ill gotten gains from corruption.
I don't think Western interference played much of a role in either, except as propaganda and perhaps advisors on tactics for the latter. Without the social basis the Hong Kong protests are about nothing, and as they lost the social content and became explicitly shit like putting the colonial flag up, they also stopped being like 1/3 of the city marching and just became violence, racism against mainland Chinese, etc, which we have gotten used to seeing from the nativists in past protests. There are also legitimate social grievances though, as life there seems pretty awful even if you are middle class and not rich.
03 Oct 2019, 04:00
Here is a good article from 24 September 2019: The Hong Kong protests and imperialism: What the corporate media isn’t saying.
Besides that it is important to note the 'one country, two systems' principle that exists within China. I'd find it hard to believe that these protests would expand into the mainland.
Besides that it is important to note the 'one country, two systems' principle that exists within China. I'd find it hard to believe that these protests would expand into the mainland.
27 Nov 2019, 22:21
Did you guys see the video of the protesters setting a pro-Chinese man alight? What a bunch of fuсking savages. It will be interesting to see how things unfold now that pan-democratic candidates have won in the elections.
09 Jan 2020, 16:33
Hopefully this topic is not too distant for my post to be considered necro...
The Hong Kong protests are nothing more than the same color revolution formula that the NED and CIA apply to places they cannot take down militarily or through the ballot box, such as Venezuela. The formula worked well in Bolivia and Ukraine, in recent times. Of course for a place like Hong Kong, there is no overthrowing the system, but the unrest is enough to keep China occupied and to score a propaganda victory against China.
Two things to note about these events
1. The western press in Hong Kong make it a point not to report the hooliganism carried out by the nihilistic, US flag waving masked thugs, but will swarm around any notion of a possibly brutal police response.
2. It is noteworthy how much coverage Hong Kong protests get, while the year-long Yellow Vest protests in France barely get any coveragez at least in the US. Sad but very predictable.
It seems like waiting it out is China's best option, although it must be hell for regular Hong Kong citizens.
The Hong Kong protests are nothing more than the same color revolution formula that the NED and CIA apply to places they cannot take down militarily or through the ballot box, such as Venezuela. The formula worked well in Bolivia and Ukraine, in recent times. Of course for a place like Hong Kong, there is no overthrowing the system, but the unrest is enough to keep China occupied and to score a propaganda victory against China.
Two things to note about these events
1. The western press in Hong Kong make it a point not to report the hooliganism carried out by the nihilistic, US flag waving masked thugs, but will swarm around any notion of a possibly brutal police response.
2. It is noteworthy how much coverage Hong Kong protests get, while the year-long Yellow Vest protests in France barely get any coveragez at least in the US. Sad but very predictable.
It seems like waiting it out is China's best option, although it must be hell for regular Hong Kong citizens.
22 Jan 2020, 03:50
Not all Communists in the region are supportive of the actions taken by Beijing to squench the protesters . The Japanese Communist Party has come out with this statement . http://www.jcp.or.jp/english/jcpcc/blog/2019/11/20191114-immediate-cessation-of-suppression-in-hong-kong.html And , as one might expect , the Trotskyists of Hong Kong have condemned the PRC in this regard . https://chinaworker.info/en/2019/09/27/21290/ , https://chinaworker.info/en/2019/11/26/22004/ So make of that what you will .
22 Jan 2020, 19:37
One would hope the message from JCP is not necessarily in opposition, but friendly warning of restraint. Of course, compared to most police forces facing violent protests, the Hong Kong police appears to be restrained in their response.
As for the Trotskyists in Hong Kong, their rhetoric mirrors that of the uncritical soundbites that come from western media, when talking about this being a democracy movement, or of the "concentration camps" of Xinjiang. It does the group a disservice to mimic shoddy western interpretations of the situation.
As for the Trotskyists in Hong Kong, their rhetoric mirrors that of the uncritical soundbites that come from western media, when talking about this being a democracy movement, or of the "concentration camps" of Xinjiang. It does the group a disservice to mimic shoddy western interpretations of the situation.
27 Jan 2020, 03:11
Marshal Konev wrote:One would hope the message from JCP is not necessarily in opposition, but friendly warning of restraint. Of course, compared to most police forces facing violent protests, the Hong Kong police appears to be restrained in their response.
As for the Trotskyists in Hong Kong, their rhetoric mirrors that of the uncritical soundbites that come from western media, when talking about this being a democracy movement, or of the "concentration camps" of Xinjiang. It does the group a disservice to mimic shoddy western interpretations of the situation.
From this article I just found , originally printed in the South China Post , the Japanese Communist Party had really come down hard on the Communist Party of China . https://www.msn.com/en-sg/news/world/chinese-communist-partys-chauvinism-a-threat-to-peace-japanese-counterpart/ar-BBZ94fB?li=BBr8Mkj While I do not wish to rush to judgment , I do feel that the opinions of dissident comrades from the region , and especially from the territory of the People's Republic of China , and more specifically Hong Kong , should not be easily dismissed . And in addition , I have heard of there being a crack down on Marxists even , in the PRC . { https://www.npr.org/2018/11/21/669509554/in-china-the-communist-partys-latest-unlikely-target-young-marxists , https://www.businessinsider.com/china-communist-party-crack-down-on-student-communists-2018-11 , https://thediplomat.com/2018/10/no-place-for-real-marxists-in-communist-china/ , https://www.newser.com/story/142340/china-cracks-down-on-maoists.html }
27 Jan 2020, 05:54
Jason24 wrote:Not all Communists in the region are supportive of the actions taken by Beijing to squench the protesters
Not an expert on law enforcement in 1 Country 2 Systems but has Beijing done anything? I mean the vocally disagreed with the violence but the police in Hong Kong aren't from the mainland China. They're from Hong Kong under orders from Security Bureau of Hong Kong.
28 Jan 2020, 20:40
Oh , I don't know . I had just assumed that something like the People's Armed Police would have gotten involved . But perhaps not then . Here are some articles I just found on the situation though . https://warontherocks.com/2019/08/the-re-conquerors-of-hong-kong-a-primer-on-chinas-peoples-armed-police/ , https://www.hongkongfp.com/2019/08/12/china-slams-hong-kong-protest-violence-terrorism-peoples-armed-police-drive-neighbouring-guangdong/ , https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/aug/18/chinese-military-police-poised-for-action-over-hong-kong-protests-shenzen , https://www.pri.org/stories/2019-11-06/china-s-internal-suppression-troops-have-plans-hong-kong