Slovenia: pre-election debates

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WHat I wanted to say, comrade, is that with all of the above, the left is impotent because there is no clear vision on their part about how they will help the little man get out of this vicious circle of life in which we all are right now. What do you think?

i agree that we require a moderate leadership at the moment but i would prefer to see virant not get too many votes. i'm in favour of reducing bureaucracy and improving health institutions but not at the cost of social state which i believe virant is not in favour of. my uncle is an economist and he believes virant's reforms in previous government were very inefficient which is another reason i dont support him. if we really must enter a technical government with a rightist party then let's at least go with a small, moderate party like SLS.
i also dont believe that jankovič is not a leftist. sure he is wealthy but then again engels wasnt exactly poor either. he declared himself to be a social democrat who sympathises with former communist regime and did a lot for ljubljana, i go there almost every day and i must admit that his reforms transformed the city from backwater provincial town to an european capital. so far he didnt disappoint me and if he wants to be in power i'll vote for him, but he better not stray from his path.

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Comrade, if this prophecy comes true, this video will be interesting again http://bit.ly/syvW1x.

i dont really believe slovenes are capable of staging a state-wide rebellion. hell, we're not even capable of staging a real occupy borza rally

Moris wrote:

i'm in favour of reducing bureaucracy and improving health institutions but not at the cost of social state which i believe virant is not in favour of.

What did he say or put in his programme that makes you believe that his option is not for a social state? I'm definitely not for a social state as leftist Hanžek portrays (because it cannot happen). As I understood Virant, he wants the public servants to primarily serve the public, so economy can function. He was the only one using that phrase ("government institutions have to provide service for the people").

What our country/economy needs right now is a boost in economy, a boost in sales of our products. People/candidates talk more about saving and taxes and the money government has to collect, but apart from Jankovic no one is talking about how to bring the investors and money in. No one is talking about how to increase sales to make more money (because only with that the public treasury can get more money in).

Moris wrote:

my uncle is an economist and he believes virant's reforms in previous government were very inefficient which is another reason i dont support him.

Not really sure which inefficiencies you're talking about. I think that compared to pre-Virant period, the public administration is now working much more efficient (not efficient enough, of course). Janković's successes in Ljubljana are made even more significant because previous mayors were so lousy (Potočnik, Simčič, Rupel). Do you see the connection?:)

It would be interesting to see Virant-Janković government, but it's just wishful thinking on my part.

Moris wrote:

i dont really believe slovenes are capable of staging a state-wide rebellion. hell, we're not even capable of staging a real occupy borza rally

Oh, don't let me get on a rant there Borza rally was a proof that those guys were truly misguided - what the hell were they thinking they could achieve in front of an institution which is not responsible for anything that happened to the little man in Slovenia? The largest tycoon in Slovenia is the state itself, unfortunately. They should've gone in front of the parliament or NLB or KAD or SOD - those are the ones making people lose their jobs on a daily basis.

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What did he say or put in his programme that makes you believe that his option is not for a social state? I'm definitely not for a social state as leftist Hanžek portrays (because it cannot happen). As I understood Virant, he wants the public servants to primarily serve the public, so economy can function. He was the only one using that phrase ("government institutions have to provide service for the people").

well, virant is a classical liberal and he never quite denied that. i dont think there is a single party which wouldnt want to improve public sector and economy but not every party will tell you how exactly they plan to do that.

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Not really sure which inefficiencies you're talking about. I think that compared to pre-Virant period, the public administration is now working much more efficient (not efficient enough, of course). Janković's successes in Ljubljana are made even more significant because previous mayors were so lousy (Potočnik, Simčič, Rupel). Do you see the connection?:)

my uncle claims most of his public sector wages reforms were harmful for the economy and well-being of the country. there were some protests against reforms werent there?

as for jankovič, i dont see how sins of the former mayors have anything to do with anything here. they did what they did (or didnt?) and he decided to finally break this circle of lousiness. i just heard today on radio that stadium he built brought a nice profit to city's treasury this year. he seems to know how things work and i'm not surprised so many young people support him.

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Oh, don't let me get on a rant there Borza rally was a proof that those guys were truly misguided - what the hell were they thinking they could achieve in front of an institution which is not responsible for anything that happened to the little man in Slovenia? The largest tycoon in Slovenia is the state itself, unfortunately. They should've gone in front of the parliament or NLB or KAD or SOD - those are the ones making people lose their jobs on a daily basis.

exactly. what was the point of it? if they cant organize a proper rally dont organize one at all. at least move in front of the parliament or somewhere.

Moris wrote:

well, virant is a classical liberal and he never quite denied that. i dont think there is a single party which wouldnt want to improve public sector and economy but not every party will tell you how exactly they plan to do that.

I'm not sure what you mean by classical liberal. LDS (Liberal Democracy of Slovenia) is a classical liberal party, isn't it? If it is not, then they ought to have changed the name. According to names in Slovenian politics, Virant would be more of a social democrat.

Moris wrote:

my uncle claims most of his public sector wages reforms were harmful for the economy and well-being of the country. there were some protests against reforms werent there?

You probably remember that Janša gave Virant a direct order to give in when negotiating with unions. The biggest obstacle to Slovenia's advancement are actually unions, undermining every single effort to move Slovenia from status quo.

Moris wrote:

just heard today on radio that stadium he built brought a nice profit to city's treasury this year.

I heard about Virant returning 19.000 EUR to the state treasury He's very naiive to think it will all be over for him - now they'll start to rub this in big time

Moris wrote:

exactly. what was the point of it? if they cant organize a proper rally dont organize one at all. at least move in front of the parliament or somewhere.

comrade, i totally agree. if i compare the situation with the one from 1920s in yugoslavia, an illegal organisation (the Communist Party) could only fight well against the regime. No other means which was allowed by the regime would show any progress.

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I'm not sure what you mean by classical liberal. LDS (Liberal Democracy of Slovenia) is a classical liberal party, isn't it? If it is not, then they ought to have changed the name. According to names in Slovenian politics, Virant would be more of a social democrat.

well UK used to be classical liberal country in 19th and early 20th century. LDS are more like leftist social liberals than libertarians.

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You probably remember that Janša gave Virant a direct order to give in when negotiating with unions. The biggest obstacle to Slovenia's advancement are actually unions, undermining every single effort to move Slovenia from status quo.

well russian styled shock therapies wont exactly help us get anywhere. though i must admit they are over reacting at times. LDS under drnovšek did a good job avoiding these kind of shock therapies. if they hadnt we'd probably be as bad as hungary or croatia right now.

Moris wrote:

well russian styled shock therapies wont exactly help us get anywhere. though i must admit they are over reacting at times. LDS under drnovšek did a good job avoiding these kind of shock therapies. if they hadnt we'd probably be as bad as hungary or croatia right now.

good that you mentioned hungary and croatia and NOT a certain country which used to border SFRY at Monte Negro, Kosovo, and Macedonia, as people from that country are quite jumpy at any reference to them, especially if mentioned in a negative context

@Moris, did you watch yesterday's debate on TV Ljubljana 1 (that used to be the good old socialist name of the current TV Slovenia 1)? Any thoughts? Did you notice how they said that this was a debate among the current parliamentary parties, yet NSi was present as well? Do you know why is that?

i dont really watch tv anymore but yeah, funny how NSi always manages to appear in media. RTVSLO basically became RTVSDS a long time ago. if you check their website you wont find anything besides praises of SDS and criticism of everyone else.

Moris wrote:

i dont really watch tv anymore but yeah, funny how NSi always manages to appear in media. RTVSLO basically became RTVSDS a long time ago. if you check their website you wont find anything besides praises of SDS and criticism of everyone else.

A couple of years ago when the pro-right-wing christian neofascists rose in the media, Jože Možina was the director of Slovenian TV. He's been very vocal against partisans.

looks like he did quite a job as a director. i havent found a single article on their website that would be at least remotely objective. i wish it were possible to cancel RTV subscription. damn useless channel nobody watches with lousy movies.

Moris wrote:

looks like he did quite a job as a director. i havent found a single article on their website that would be at least remotely objective. i wish it were possible to cancel RTV subscription. damn useless channel nobody watches with lousy movies.

Even Kanal A (PopTV) and Pink.si broadcast more partisan movies than state-owned TV station. That means partisan movies do attract the masses, or else those profit-mongering broadcasters at PopTV wouldn't have broadcasted them.

Hey, Moris, have you been following the recent debates and developments in the campaign?
What's your impression what will happen, who will win, what coalition will be formed etc.?

i've been, yes. looks to me that janshists will get most votes but wont be able to form a stable coalition. i doubt SLS will join them this time and virant seems to be more keen on going into coalition with zoko and SD. as much as i hate that neoliberal prick i still prefer to see him in a centre-left coalition, i dont want to even think what will happen if janša takes over again

Moris wrote:

i've been, yes. looks to me that janshists will get most votes but wont be able to form a stable coalition. i doubt SLS will join them this time and virant seems to be more keen on going into coalition with zoko and SD. as much as i hate that neoliberal prick i still prefer to see him in a centre-left coalition, i dont want to even think what will happen if janša takes over again

I think Janša will be able to get 50+ (with other parties) for sure, even though I'm not endorsing him at all. I was really happy to hear Virant (is he the neoliberal prick you talked about?) say the conditions to enter a coalition with Janša (you know, no brooding over 30 years old affairs, no counting of dead after WW2 etc.).
It seems that your fav. Zoki will be too weak to be offered the PM mandate. Have you seen this joke about him? http://www.radio1.si/strani/Oddaje.aspx ... 97&LNK=152 ))
I'm apalled to see NSi might get enough votes to enter the parliament!

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I think Janša will be able to get 50+ (with other parties) for sure, even though I'm not endorsing him at all. I was really happy to hear Virant (is he the neoliberal prick you talked about?) say the conditions to enter a coalition with Janša (you know, no brooding over 30 years old affairs, no counting of dead after WW2 etc.).

i doubt SDS, SLS, Nsi and even desus will have enough seats to form a government. zoko, SD and virant seem to be doing fine enough and could form a relatively stable coalition. at least that's what i'm hoping for. i doubt Nsi will make it to the parliament even with strong backing of catholiban church.

Moris wrote:

i doubt SDS, SLS, Nsi and even desus will have enough seats to form a government. zoko, SD and virant seem to be doing fine enough and could form a relatively stable coalition. at least that's what i'm hoping for. i doubt Nsi will make it to the parliament even with strong backing of catholiban church.

One thing is what one wishes for and what is viable. Although I'd prefer to see your scenario being realized, I think the reality of the situation is that SDS will gain 35%, Virant some 10%, SLS 7%, NSi on the threshold. That will be above 50%. Janković might gain 24%, SD some 15%, LDS & Zares might not cross the threshold.
Virant will almost definitely be in the coalition, be it left or right, as long as they stick to their guns/demands.

@MOris, as I see in the news, Janković will have a hard time forming a coalition. Pahor supposedly said NO to it? I thought he would be the last to say such a thing, if he has the prosperity of this country in his mind, and not his own particular interests. I'd expect such a egotistical stance from Janša, not Pahor, wtf?

let's wait and see... informal support is better than a loose coalition like we had so far. personally i'd prefer a national unity coalition of PS, LGV, SD, SLS and DESUS even if that means less ministries for PS. nothing will hurt reactionaries more than an united coalition of parties from both spectrums.

Moris wrote:

let's wait and see... informal support is better than a loose coalition like we had so far. personally i'd prefer a national unity coalition of PS, LGV, SD, SLS and DESUS even if that means less ministries for PS. nothing will hurt reactionaries more than an united coalition of parties from both spectrums.

Of all the above mentioned parties, it seems only PS and LGV are serious whereas others mind their own interests. Yes, even SD. They obviously want to extort as much as they can from Janković. It seems as if Pahor is trying to "get back" to Janković for all of his (Pahor's) trials and tribulations during the past three years (for which Janković had nothing to do). Pahor must be really constipated and frustrated right now and he can't wait to pronounce sometime in the near future "you see how hard it is to manage a coalition in which everyone is pulling to his own side?". Really pathetic - i think he's showing his true colours now.

We probably both agree that DeSUS is a total joke with Kahrhl Ehrjavec - he'll never be serious enough to stick to the coalition's goals/guns. SLS was a Trojan horse during the Rop government and I personally cannot forget the fact that SLS is actually a party of the Podobnik brothers (brat Podpoštenjak;)).

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Of all the above mentioned parties, it seems only PS and LGV are serious whereas others mind their own interests. Yes, even SD. They obviously want to extort as much as they can from Janković. It seems as if Pahor is trying to "get back" to Janković for all of his (Pahor's) trials and tribulations during the past three years (for which Janković had nothing to do). Pahor must be really constipated and frustrated right now and he can't wait to pronounce sometime in the near future "you see how hard it is to manage a coalition in which everyone is pulling to his own side?". Really pathetic - i think he's showing his true colours now.

personally i dont think we should be worried yet. if he's not willing to enter the coalition he will be risking a rebellion in his party. i'm certain they'll enter coalition eventually. it's too early for me to say anything concrete.

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We probably both agree that DeSUS is a total joke with Kahrhl Ehrjavec - he'll never be serious enough to stick to the coalition's goals/guns. SLS was a Trojan horse during the Rop government and I personally cannot forget the fact that SLS is actually a party of the Podobnik brothers (brat Podpoštenjak;)).

i agree on both accounts but sadly i think national unity coalition might be the only way. podobniks are gone for now, let's hope žerjav will put his personal agenda aside and back the coalition. i'm assuming he's a reasonable man since he supported pahor's reforms in the past instead of simply dismissing them like janša.