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What if: Argentina and Brazil join Axis in June 1940

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Post 27 May 2006, 15:27
While Argentina was officially neutral most of the WWII (declared war on the Axis Powers at the end of the war because of international pressure) the country was quite pro-Axis, especially the governments that ruled between the years 1943-1946.

What if Juan Perón had somehow ended up in power before the start of WWII? He he was a significant figure in the GOU, Grupo de Oficiales Unidos (United Officers' Group), which was a group of officers with very strong sympathy for fascism and who were pro-Axis (the group staged a coup agains't the conservative civilian government of President Ramón Castillo in 1943).

Brazil was ruled by the "Estado Novo" goverment headed by Getúlio Vargas (of fascist nature). As late as May 1941, for example, after the invasions of Poland and France, Vargas sent a birthday telegram to Adolf Hitler saying, "best wishes for your personal happiness and the prosperity of the German nation."

Such periodic overtures to the Axis Powers, along with rapid increase in civilian and military trade between Brazil and Nazi Germany caused U.S. officials to constantly ask, "What is Vargas like and where does he stand."

Brazilian generals, such as Pedro Goes Monteiro and Eurico Dutra, Vargas' close collaborators, admired the German military-industrial complex, and were eager to accept German arms deals, and the pro-German faction of Vargas' regime was strongest in the military.

So, what in June 1940 Argentina and Brazil, seing how Germany conquered large parts of Europe and put Britain into difficult position decided to join Axis.

Argentina and Brazil had the strongest armed forces in South America, especially navies.

Battleship Rivadavia.

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Battleship Moreno.

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Battleship Minas Gerais.

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Battleship Sau Paulo.

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Last edited by Carius on 27 May 2006, 16:03, edited 3 times in total.
Post 27 May 2006, 15:51
Its my understanding that The Perons were more socialist than national socialist, so i don't think they would, as for Brazil, i don't see what they could gain, unless they say Allied Powers interfering in their trade.
Post 27 May 2006, 16:10
Latin America rapidly becomes fascist. Sad turn of events. But with the demise of Germany, they'd fall off anyway.
Post 29 May 2006, 22:34
This would actually be bad for Germany because it would cause America to feel threatened and join the allies early.
Post 04 Jun 2006, 08:07
Quote:
This would actually be bad for Germany because it would cause America to feel threatened and join the allies early.


Not nessecarily. While the entry of Brazil and Argentina in the war on the side of the Axis Powers would not make USA happy, I don't see the country doing war agains't them until Pearl Harbour.
Post 04 Jun 2006, 09:59
The Battle of the Atlantic would get longer.

Argentina would take the Falkland Islands because Britain was in severe problems in her own territory.

More oil to Germany.

Argentinian and Brazilian troops in Africa?

More territory to cover for the Allies.

And...

Image
Last edited by Argen Fighter on 04 Jun 2006, 11:05, edited 1 time in total.
Post 04 Jun 2006, 10:33
Quote:
Argentinian and Brazilian troops in Africa?


I doubt, though the Argentinian and Brazilian warships could raid the Allied supply lines on South Atlantic. Also, Argentina and Brazil would make excellent bases for German bombers and warships.
Post 04 Jun 2006, 11:06
Quote:
More oil to Germany.


That is an important point.
Post 06 Jun 2006, 12:24
If Argentina and Brazil joined the Axis during the war, could they have also made arrangements with the Japanese? Could they have invaded Chile/Peru, then allowed Japan to build air bases on their territory with which they could carry out attacks on the USA's Pacific/Central American territories from a second front?
Post 23 Jun 2006, 06:29
They'd get there ass kicked, they'd be included in the Marshall Plan, and today they would be a world economic powerhouse along with Germany and Japan
Post 28 Jun 2006, 00:08
That's an interesting thought actually, declaring war on the United States as a means of lifting your country out of the third world, sort of like what happens in that Peter Sellers film, The Mouse that Roared.
Post 06 Sep 2006, 14:11
Quote:
Argentina and Brazil joined the Axis during the war, could they have also made arrangements with the Japanese? Could they have invaded Chile/Peru, then allowed Japan to build air bases on their territory with which they could carry out attacks on the USA's Pacific/Central American territories from a second front?


This might have taken some time to undertake, but a viable possibility. brazil would have been ideal for staging attacks on the eastern part of the US. Such as New york or washington.
Post 06 Sep 2006, 16:25
The Monroe Docterine, if Japan started to get a perhaps to close relationship with Argentina, the Monroe Docterine would be brought out of the grave and perhaps brought America into the war sooner.
Post 06 Sep 2006, 19:30
I forgot about that dusty old document....

That could be true the US would have brought that up, but do you think that Post depression US would have ben prepared let say hypothetically 2 years sooner to get involoved?
Post 06 Sep 2006, 20:09
The US was totaly unprepared for war (to a very large extend) two years earlier they would have been more unprepared. But no country had the ability to strike at the US with any force. Another plus for the US is that they already have industry established so its only a matter of time before they convert it to war purposes and eventually the US Army would get combat experience.
Post 06 Sep 2006, 20:25
Quote:
The US was totaly unprepared for war (to a very large extend) two years earlier they would have been more unprepared. But no country had the ability to strike at the US with any force. Another plus for the US is that they already have industry established so its only a matter of time before they convert it to war purposes and eventually the US Army would get combat experience.


The japanese had enough air strike capabilities to hit all those small islands. I speculate that if nothing else, they could have made a muck of things for the eastern seaboard...
Post 06 Sep 2006, 20:36
Quote:
The japanese had enough air strike capabilities to hit all those small islands.


Which islands? Also most Japanese aircraft had a range of just under 2,000 miles. They wouldn't even be able to strike the US from Argentina.
Post 06 Sep 2006, 20:42
Quote:
Which islands?


Well, the aleutians for one, where one uncle of mine served,,,

and Guadalcanal where my mother's brother was killed...

honestly,I'd have to research some more names...


Quote:
Also most Japanese aircraft had a range of just under 2,000 miles. They wouldn't even be able to strike the US from Argentina.



Brazil was the other country named here. Argentina would be too far. brazil could have staged a bit easier... but even so, if you are correct, they would have had to stage elsewhere.

with bases in brazil, the overtake of some of the lesser antillies would have brought them within the 2000 mile range....
now this of course is counting on a lot of US ignorance and apathy or some extremely covert and quick actions by the Japanese....

it's plausable although not likely.....
Post 07 Sep 2006, 16:38
Quote:
I speculate that if nothing else, they could have made a muck of things for the eastern seaboard...


This is an earlier statement. I am still not sure that Argentina and Brazil would be able to hit anything worthwhile in the US. Also in the Vinson-Trammell Act of 1934, the US started to modernize its navy.
Post 07 Sep 2006, 16:51
Why Japanese aircraft? German bombers could have reached the United States from Germany (or was it France?). Concentrate on the small strips on the American east coast and the US is paralyzed (9/11 x 1000). Who knows, it may leave the back doors open for Japan and the South Americas.
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